Why do you repeatedly keep comparing energy suppliers to broadband suppliers on price comparison sites? You're comparing apples v oranges. In case you're not aware, when you change energy suppliers nothing physically happens to the gas & electric coming in the pipes - purely who bills you changes. As a result, nearly all (if not all) energy suppliers are available nationwide. Unlike broadband which depends on which provider has installed their infrastructure in your area or exchange - which is a lot more more complex for price comparison websites to keep up to date with.

As i said earlier, take your complaint to the price comparison websites. Having a public rant on TBB isn't going to fix anything.

You say nothing has changed since 2016, which is incorrect we have made available our API at some point in 2018 it appeared.

Keeping API up to date is a 7 day a week job, so refute that nothing has happened.

Why people are free to disagree and debate reasons for why a situation is why it is, resorting to person insults of the sort posted is not acceptable.

Deleted on first read

Posted deleted due to it containing quote of post that had been moderated.

For the record have not yet seen the complaint that was raised with forum moderators apparently.

In reply to a post by Highland76:

Why do you repeatedly keep comparing energy suppliers to broadband suppliers on price comparison sites? You're comparing apples v oranges.

No I'm not. They are all utilities that cost money supplied to your home on which all the main price comparison websites list the providers supposedly closest to your own requirements and derive click thru income for doing so if you switch to them regardless of whether it is gas, electricity or broadband. It is therefore also perfectly reasonable to expect them to do this as accurately for broadband as for gas and electricity or for car or home insurance. We are of course talking about the same price comparison websites.

In case you're not aware, when you change energy suppliers nothing physically happens to the gas & electric coming in the pipes - purely who bills you changes. As a result, nearly all (if not all) energy suppliers are available nationwide. Unlike broadband which depends on which provider has installed their infrastructure in your area or exchange - which is a lot more more complex for price comparison websites to keep up to date with.

Yes I know perfectly well how the energy supply industry works. And actually there isn't much difference as for all ADSL2+, FTTC and FTTP services BT Openreach provides the final cable connection to your home (just as with gas and electricity) and that is only not true if you are with Virgin Media or are on the Hull exchange (not owned by BT Openreach). Of course the providers then have their own infrastructure either at the exchange or beyond to link with their national broadband networks and infrastructure but then that is little different in concept in pricing terms from the different energy suppliers having contracts to sell energy in the networks at wholesale level that then comes out as a blend of all suppliers in your home electricity cable or gas pipe.

Also what you are saying about all energy suppliers being available nationwide in all regions is factually untrue as quite a number of the smaller suppliers only operate in some electricity or gas areas that are either local to them or which are the largest areas in the country in terms of customer numbers.

As i said earlier, take your complaint to the price comparison websites. Having a public rant on TBB isn't going to fix anything.

I will take it to them too and to Ofcom and the Competition and Markets Authority and the Advertising Standarda Authority but there is no reason I should not be able to discuss it here amongst fibre broadband users. So what is your reason for trying to shut down the discussion. Do you perhaps have some reason why you don't like the workings of the price comparison websites to be subjected to public scrutiny and discussed with other users of these services who are also broadband customers?

Edited by deleted (Mon 25-May-20 14:38:56)

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

You say nothing has changed since 2016, which is incorrect we have made available our API at some point in 2018 it appeared.

Keeping API up to date is a 7 day a week job, so refute that nothing has happened.

I wasn't referring to ThinkBroadband's price and availability price comparison site as this is about the most complete and accurate in the UK, even though it doesn't include every single last tiny supplier (although does tend to include tiny suppliers who are very cheap or eager to promote themselves).

I was actually referring to the big boys in price comparison like Uswitch, GoCompare, Confused, CompareTheMarket and most disappointingly of all WhichSwitch, who don't seem to be getting any better or complete in the accuracy of the broadband price comparisons that they are undertaking. I am also even more disappointed that the smaller price comparison websites that Ofcom officially promotes and endorses don't seem to be any better. Its also interesting that none of the large sites are listed by Ofcom for whatever reasons.

I was actually hoping that you could persuade more of these inaccurate price comparison websites to use your broadband pricing information database because it seems to be about as good as it gets a the present time.

Edited by deleted (Mon 25-May-20 14:42:14)

Yes I know perfectly well how the energy supply industry works. And actually there isn't much difference as for all ADSL2+, FTTC and FTTP services BT Openreach provides the final cable connection to your home (just as with gas and electricity) and that is only not true if you are with Virgin Media or are on the Hull exchange (not owned by BT Openreach). Of course the providers then have their own infrastructure either at the exchange or beyond to link with their national broadband networks and infrastructure but then that is little different in concept in pricing terms from the different energy suppliers having contracts to sell energy in the networks at wholesale level that then comes out as a blend of all suppliers in your home electricity cable or gas pipe.

Actually there is a big difference.

LLU ADSL2+ in places with BT Wholesale do not sell ADSL2+
The Openreach products that some providers do not sell
Product withdrawals in some areas that will affect things
The large range of alternate networks that exist, i.e. its a lot more than just Openreach and Virgin Media

So market is very different and that is before we start talking about how to display speed estimates to the public, such that with Ofcom rules even over the same Openreach infrastructure you can see different speeds from different suppliers.

Love to persuade but they know we exist and can ask and will get given quotes for cost of access.

In reply to a post by Capvermell:

I was actually hoping that you could persuade more of these inaccurate price comparison websites to use your broadband pricing information database because it seems to be about as good as it gets a the present time.

<sigh>
Why do you have trouble understanding that price comparison websites such uswitch are COMMERCIAL websites who are under no obligation to list any particular broadband provider? This is has been pointed out to you many times on this thread but you seem to have difficulty accepting this fact. You can rant & rave as much as you like but first & foremost, price comparison websites are interested in making money. Taking a Robin Hood approach means diddly squat to them, but good luck complaining to them...you'll need it.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

LLU ADSL2+ in places with BT Wholesale do not sell ADSL2+
The Openreach products that some providers do not sell
Product withdrawals in some areas that will affect things
The large range of alternate networks that exist, i.e. its a lot more than just Openreach and Virgin Media

So market is very different and that is before we start talking about how to display speed estimates to the public, such that with Ofcom rules even over the same Openreach infrastructure you can see different speeds from different suppliers.

Things like speed comparisons are also not constant over time or at different times of day, even with the same supplier so cannot be got exactly right but are only approximations and averages, but things like the physical availability of an FTTP supplier on your exchange is a fact and should be capable of being got right .

Also what is the excuse for all the price comparison websites claiming that TalkTalk G.Fast services are available on my exchange and phone number when G.Fast services are not and never have been available for any phone line on this exchange?

What I am concerned about is an apparent culture of saying that because broadband is somewhat more technically sophisticated that this makes it quite alright to have highly inaccurate, wrong and misleading data on most price comparison websites and especially in respect of FTTP and G.Fast

Also we are stuck with a situation with this ridiculous accountant led push for long contract lock-ins of up to 2 years with swingeing early termination penalties of as much as £1500 on the fastest services that is unhealthy for competition and consumers and so has much worse consequences if consumers are misled in to choosing the wrong broadband product with a 2 year contract lock in.

Ofcom have said suppliers must not charge more than their real costs if consumers terminate early but BT Retail in particular just ignores this and relies on only a small number of customers going to either Ofcom or the Small Claims Court or Trading Standards (if you can get the latter to take an interest which is very difficult) if they either have the energy to do so and/or enough money is at stake in terms of cancellation charges.

BT Openreach's whole model of pricing for turning on and off ADSL2+, FTTC or FTTP service at an address that already had any necessary install work done previously on faceplates and ONTs for another customer is quite wrong and cannot possibly be justified. All of it is deliberately anti competitive and clearly seeks to minimise the frequency with which customers can change suppliers.

The market in energy supply allows regular changes of supplier easily and monthly if you want without long lock ins (just as with 1 month contract mobile broadband SIM Only deals) but in the case of FTTC and FTTP it is impossible to avoid a lock in without big penalties of at least a year (and 2 years from the supplier which dominates the home broadband marketplace). But this is not acceptable and customers should be able to leave after 1 month if they pay any one off installation costs incurred and not recouped through a long contract. But this should not include all the monthly broadband line rental they hoped to earn over the next 24 months!!!!