In reply to a post by candlerb:

The same applies to PtP versus PON. Although you can get switches with high density SFP ports, and more dense than PON blades, you would still need around 30 times as many incoming fibres to service the same customer base - and of course, 30 times as many fibre strands running to your fibre aggregation nodes.

It won't be anywhere near 30 times as many fibres. Because Openreach will have run some spares and you need a lot more spares proportionately for PON than PtP Besides it will be a single cable with X numbers of fibres which are about the thickness of a strand of hair individually.

You can get 96 BiDi ethernet terminations in 1U using dual BiDi SFP's. It's one of the things that has in part eroded the advantage of PON networks.

You are not tied into vendors with BiDi ethernet like you are with GPON. Want to move a customer to XGPON from GPON for higher speeds you are going to have downtime for everyone on that splitter as you patch it somewhere else. BiDi ethernet only impacts the customer getting the upgrade. You have the option of higher speeds sooner. Sure there is a 25Gbps version of GPON in the works, but you can already by 25Gbps BiDi optics today.

Another consideration is you only have one fibre estate to manage, you can use the same fibres for leased lines as you do for consumer broadband. Not so easy on a PON network.

The use of PON is a decision of it's time, that is harder to justify today than it was when it was made. It happens all the time in IT and something you have to be careful of so you don't keep doing something even when it doesn't make sense anymore. Of course Openreach are locked intousing PON now.

In reply to a post by jabuzzard:

If you can draw a single core of fibre to a splitter you can draw 32 cores, and the cost is almost all in the man power. There is indeed less splicing as any splicing in segments before the splitters is reduced. Once you get to the splitter the amount of splicing/termination is actually more with PON. However again most of the cost is in the labour for pulling of the fibre.

The other aspect to consider is the so called “future proof” nature of PtP. I don’t think one could argue for that perspective as it’s pretty hard to deny that a dedicated strand(s) of glass to each subscriber is the gold standard of a fibre network. However I would say that technology moves fast and the familiar GPON standard has already been skipped by several forward looking alt nets who have adopted XGSPON which addresses bandwidth and symmetry.

Feels like a rerun of Betamax versus VHS!

Even XGSPON does not compete with PtP BiDi ethernet. Where is my symmetric 25Gbps connection today?

The use of PON technologies is historical. Things have moved on and the assumptions that favoured PON have mostly evaportated. If you where starting again PtP ethernet has lots going for it. It is a bit more expensive, but it is vastly superior in the long term.

Are there really only three networks (all rural) in the UK that are building PtP nets (Gigaclear, Wightfibre & BB4RN)?

Surely there must be more than 3 nets here, if PtP total superiority over PON is as assured as you would have us believe?

You say that "things have moved on", but have they really? You speak as if PON is yesterdays technology, but as I said in my post above, it's not just Openreach that have decided to use PON but subsequently at least a dozen other large and small alt nets are either building and/or running PON fibre nets. Some, like CF are already selling 3Gbps symmetric consumer packages and 10 Gbps business packages. Surely they can't all be so wrong.

Will 25 Gbps PON ever see the light of day...dunno, news out last month that single wavelength 100 Gbps symmetric PON has been tested in the lab with Nokia and Vodafone:

https://www.lightwaveonline.com/fttx/pon-systems/art...

"“Once this DSP is adopted,” in the words of a joint press release, 50G and 100G PON development would become relatively straightforward, leading to commercial availability in the second half of this decade, the companies assert."

Is PON a dead end? I think you'd be foolish to think so.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Are there really only three networks (all rural) in the UK that are building PtP nets (Gigaclear, Wightfibre & BB4RN)?

There is also B4SH (Broadband for Surrey Hills), who have been installing their PtP network since 2018.

Looks to me like a small rural alt net very much in “help us dig it and we will come” mould of B4RN (I think they even say as much in their website)

Yes, correct.

This is the list of UK PtP fibre broadband networks I’ve got. Any more?

- Grain Connect
- Gigaclear
- B4RN and B4SH
- VXFIBER/LilaConnect
- Wightfibre

I think I’m right in saying that with the exception of VXFIBER who are building in Stoke-on-Trent and Colchester, the rest are by and large building in rural settings.

There's a good description of Wightfibre's urban/rural mix, as well as their technology, here: https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/04/wightf...

👍 Sounds like a 35/65 rural to urban mix then, with 10% of extra-rural "uneconomic" for FTTP.

What I found most telling was that they would have probably upgraded to DOCSIS 3.1 rather than full fibre if they had to make the decision again today 😝 Good heavens is there no accounting for taste. hahaha 🤷‍♀️

Edited by Pheasant (Thu 18-Mar-21 09:57:35)

Yes I know about that hence why I said street. We've got FTTP being installed slowly lol & UKPN now installing a new supply across right where the phone lines go so was curious given the fibre is going back to the next nearest exchange 6 miles away (by road)

In reply to a post by burakkucat:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Are there really only three networks (all rural) in the UK that are building PtP nets (Gigaclear, Wightfibre & BB4RN)?

There is also B4SH (Broadband for Surrey Hills), who have been installing their PtP network since 2018.

I've just been connected today with FTTP by Quantum Air Fibre. funded via the Gigabit rural scheme. They are installing FTTP in seven villages around here. Speedtest. I did think about the 1Gb connection but found the cost hard to justify so went for the 500Mb. Installation was a total breeze - 30mins from arrival;. There is just a small box on the wall (smaller than the BT master socket above it with a fibre connector (I presume) that goes direct to the supplied WiFi router.

I have 14days to decide if I'm happy! And to think just 6 yrs ago I was lucky to get 1.2Mb/s - we won't mention the upload speed. Progress in the rurals.