Do you know if the vice versa would apply e.g. Jurassic Fibre overbuilding on Openreach?

In reply to a post by Grimers:

Do you know if the vice versa would apply e.g. Jurassic Fibre overbuilding on Openreach?

Cityfibre has built out in Milton Keynes, which had very good pre-existing Openreach FTTP coverage. They must have a viable business case for this.

Ultimately, the altnets compete on price. They cherry-pick the places which are cheapest to build, and wholesale at a lower rate than Openreach. Because Openreach's pricing is regulated they can't reduce it in response.

If a Cityfibre reseller like Vodafone can undercut BT or other Openreach-based providers by 50p per month, people will take it. From this point of view it doesn't really matter whether they are competing with Openreach FTTP or Openreach FTTC - although in areas where FTTC speeds are poor or non-existent, this does give a stronger incentive for people to take the altnet service.

Altnets who build in rural areas have a different business model, charge more, and have a higher risk from when Openreach comes along.

Gotcha, thanks for explaining.

In reply to a post by Robin1989:

Hi I’m just wondering if BT has a habit of overbuilding on other FTTP providers or not.

Reason I ask is a few weeks ago I saw and spoke to a virgin engineer who said they were installing full fibre on our estates as they were pulling cable through the ducts etc but then yesterday I saw about 4 BT vans all pulled up round the area walking round etc which is a lot more than there is usually when they are just doing a bit of work on one of the cabinets.

Also all this started a month after I signed up and got Starlink after been left in the slow lane for so long. When it rains it pours 😂

I assume you mean Openreach.

Yes of course they will overbuild. Surely you’d expect them to?

yeah, wouldnt surprise me once cityfibre have done Leicester, Openreach will suddenly find the area has a business case for FTTP.

Yes, another operator taking business from them would change the business case considerably

In reply to a post by _Icaras_:

In reply to a post by Robin1989:

I assume you mean Openreach.

Yes of course they will overbuild. Surely you’d expect them to?

I'm confused this is controversial. They'll overbuild whenever they think it makes sense. A third party rocking up to compete and take business from them often makes it make sense.

A couple of quid a month per household extra from building FTTP isn't a great business case. Preventing loss of 40%+ of revenue in an area by building it is a lot more persuasive.

People thinking this is predatory or even getting defensive over it is a little weird. It's just business.

The business case for FTTP is much lower manintance costs in the long run. Openreach has been very public about high expenditure of the copper system. Openreach biggest expenditure is maintenance.
Expect in the next 5-10 years about 80% of people doing work for Openreach not being needed. It the very resion why a lot people are having a very easy time get job with them at moment. They need people to make transfer over from copper to fibre to happen.
Also do not be suprise when Openreach just turns off all copper services to customer in time (PSTN/ISDN/ADSL/VDSL/etc).You will not have a choice but to have FTTP.

In reply to a post by amiga_dude:

The business case for FTTP is much lower manintance costs in the long run. Openreach has been very public about high expenditure of the copper system. Openreach biggest expenditure is maintenance.
Expect in the next 5-10 years about 80% of people doing work for Openreach not being needed. It the very resion why a lot people are having a very easy time get job with them at moment. They need people to make transfer over from copper to fibre to happen.
Also do not be suprise when Openreach just turns off all copper services to customer in time (PSTN/ISDN/ADSL/VDSL/etc).You will not have a choice but to have FTTP.

Did you mean to reply to witchunt? They know all this stuff already, as do most of us on here.

I also wouldn’t say it’s “easy” to get a job with Openreach. Yes they’re advertising lots of jobs, but they’re also having a huge amount of applicants.

Yes indeed. Keeping two platforms, for duplicate services, running burns a bunch of cash and wastes a ton of resources.

Every subscriber that they move off firstly PSTN then eventually off copper completely, the burning platform burns ever brighter - so once started they need to move from one to the other and decommission relatively quickly. WLR / PSTN sunset is set in stone, however the cost to keep parts of the copper network running for a diminishing subscriber base could be huge.

I doubt they will have any incentive to sweat the FTTC asset..

Expect if the 25 million FTTP premises by 2026 goes to plan they will sunset copper entirely this decade.