Ah, thanks for that, I'll keep an eye on it over the next few days - though that only accounts for the hop from London to France, I'm still generally detouring up to Manchester for some reason.

Edited by Adrianuk (Sun 22-Nov-20 17:08:07)

Post deleted by bluebull

In reply to a post by bluebull:

I want to bring this back up to the top because all of us on City Fibre lines actually have a bigger problem.

Look at the 2nd hop on your traceroutes. Notice how it's around 10ms (it should be much less), that is the latency that is added before it's handed over from Cityfibre to Vodafone. That might not seem like a high number on it's own, but when you add that onto where you're actually pinging it is.

If you compare your gigafast line to a standard vodafone ADSL line you will always see an extra 10ms on your pings.

The Vodafone network itself is actually very good with impressive latency across the board. It would definitely have lower latency than BT if it didn't have 10ms added on from City Fibre.

I've spoke with an engineer at City Fibre and even he agreed there is clearly an issue, the problem is they can't work on it until Vodafone 2nd line support issue City Fibre with a ticket.

Please people, encourage everyone to get this escalated. This will have a huge positive impact on our connections if we can get this looked at.

That is not true. CityFibre hand off to Vodafone and others at the equivalent place to Openreach, at the local POP.

Your characterisation of the Vodafone network is incorrect, it doesn't have impressive latency across the board, they're still in the process of upgrading it from the network that formerly ran Bulldog ADSL.

The latency is traffic getting from the Vodafone device on the interconnect to CityFibre to wherever Vodafone terminate the PPP session.

I appreciate you're misinformed, however if there were issues so heavy with the CityFibre leg they'd be impacting every CityFibre customer, and I would imagine one of the other CityFibre customers would've noticed by now, given a bunch of them are selling business-grade services.

There are a bunch of devices on the network you can't see on a traceroute. The CityFibre part is the OLT terminating the FTTP service and a switch, then you're onto the Vodafone network, and there are is a lot more to go wrong there before it arrives at a device that'll respond to a traceroute.

As the previous poster pointed out. I was incorrect (and have deleted the post to avoid confusion). However, I have a further issue I'd definitely like to mention.

Look at the 2nd hop on your traceroutes. Notice how it's around 10ms (it should be much less at this stage), that is the latency that is added before it's handed over from Cityfibre to Vodafone. That might not seem like a high number on it's own, but when you add that onto where you're actually pinging it is.

If you compare your gigafast (city fibre) line to a standard vodafone VDSL line you will always see an extra 10ms on your pings. Ping any server and this can easily be proven. Vodafone host their own speedtest.net server so the pings should be 2 - 3 ms but because of the CityFibre issue they are always > 10ms

I've spoken with an engineer at City Fibre and even he agreed there is clearly an issue, the problem is they can't work on it until Vodafone 2nd line support issue City Fibre with a ticket.

As the issue is within City Fibre's network (before it gets handed off to the Vodafone gateway), there's nothing Vodafone can really do apart from send support tickets to City Fibre.

Please people, encourage everyone to get this escalated. This isn't going to fix the routed by Manchester issue but it will fix the additional 10ms problem, which by looking at your trace routes you all seem to have.

I'm sure most people are fine with an additional 10ms, but I personally do a job that requires less than 13ms to the server and I'm sure the gamers here will agree 10ms is a very welcome reduction. On top of this, you upgrade from DSL to FTTH and expect to see lower pings, not higher. Further to this, City Fibre has a whole mission statement on how reducing latency is one of their core objectives of their product, so it's not unreasonable to request this be fixed. In 2021, it's not unreasonable to demand hops from Milton Keynes to Milton Keynes should take a lot less than 10ms, especially when Vodafone seem capable of getting us from MK to telehouse in less than 3ms.

Edited by bluebull (Sat 10-Jul-21 14:33:58)

In reply to a post by bluebull:

Look at the 2nd hop on your traceroutes. Notice how it's around 10ms (it should be much less at this stage), that is the latency that is added before it's handed over from Cityfibre to Vodafone.

You can't determine that from a traceroute.

The Cityfibre to Vodafone interconnect is entirely at layer 2 - it won't appear in any traceroute. The first IP address you hit in traceroute is Vodafone's BRAS at 84.65.128.1

https://bgp.he.net/ip/84.65.128.1

It will have been over some backhaul network. Whether Cityfibre provide that as a managed service to Vodafone, or Vodafone run their own backhaul network, is something we can't see.

It's quite possible that that has taken some sort of dog-leg path, and there's a better path that could have been chosen. But none of this means for certain that it's a problem with Cityfibre.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

It will have been over some backhaul network. Whether Cityfibre provide that as a managed service to Vodafone, or Vodafone run their own backhaul network, is something we can't see.

CityFibre hand off in the same way Openreach do - the local POP. This is why when you see ISPs come online with CityFibre it's on a city by city basis.

In reply to a post by CarlTSpeak:

CityFibre hand off in the same way Openreach do - the local POP. This is why when you see ISPs come online with CityFibre it's on a city by city basis.

Yes, but Cityfibre also have a national fibre network, which they bought from KCOM. They *could* be supplying service to Vodafone over this.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Yes, but Cityfibre also have a national fibre network, which they bought from KCOM. They *could* be supplying service to Vodafone over this.

Nah - https://www.cityfibre.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01...

How can you have both FTTC and FTTP simultaneously? Don't they remove the Copper line once the Fibre has been installed?

In reply to a post by bluebull:

I personally do a job that requires less than 13ms to the server

Are you in a position to hint at what this is, because that's a very specific requirement and would rule out people from doing that job from e.g. Newcastle, possibly Cornwall would not be an option either.