In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Interesting to know. I guess the ‘surcharge’ OR announced last December for these types of uses of EAD hastened their change.

Yet Hyperoptic could continue to deploy Cat5e with no surcharge.

That surcharge is really blatantly anti-competitive, I'm amazed there wasn't more noise made.

Presumably other leased line vendors are happy to take a chunk of that business, or more likely raise their prices to match.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Given that would entail Hyperoptic to enter into a type of sub loop unbundling arrangement with Openreach to use their copper lead-in cabling, I think it highly, highly unlikely from a commercial perspective and also given their wider focus is on delivering “full fibre” connections.

I agree, I'm not suggesting another provider would use the lead-in copper. Just that MGfast or something similar could be useful for special cases where Openreach can't get permission to install "full fibre", or doing so would require destroying a neighbouring properties decoration.

In my case, if Hyperoptic can't install full fibre (to 1/2 flats in the building), I don't see how Openreach can either. Maybe they could use the existing Cat5e to the flat (since it's theirs) and put the ONT at the closest distribution point. Though, I've never heard of an ONT being outside a premises...

Edited by Cockroach (Wed 25-Aug-21 11:34:13)

In reply to a post by Cockroach:

Though, I've never heard of an ONT being outside a premises...

At the moment that's how Virgin Media do their FTTP.
It's not a GPON ONT but it's the same principle.
It's reverse powered from the customers property.

There's 'outside' the property and outdoors I guess.

Those Boostral RFoG modems are more tolerant/IP rated to be sited in an outdoor enclosure being constructed of an alloy casing.

As compared to the typical Openreach ONT, which is 100% an indoor-rated devices with their lovely open view of the PCB through the venting/grills.

In reply to a post by Cockroach:

In my case, if Hyperoptic can't install full fibre (to 1/2 flats in the building), I don't see how Openreach can either. Maybe they could use the existing Cat5e to the flat (since it's theirs) and put the ONT at the closest distribution point. Though, I've never heard of an ONT being outside a premises...

As the 'user presentation' is copper anyway, theres no reason why the ONT couldn't be located in an internal communal riser or equipment cupboard. There's still the capability to run 100 metres in Cat5e/6 from the ONT to the users router or other network device.

It's possibly more a case of access; if you need to get access to the ONT and it's not easily accessible (for example locked away in a riser/cupboard that the building manager only has ordinary access to). The CP's probably wouldn't approve as there's more a chance of 'others' interfering or borrowing / sharing service, than if the ONT is only accessible to the end user/resident.

Edited by Pheasant (Wed 25-Aug-21 12:13:50)

I hadn't really considered powering the ONT over Ethernet from the consumer side. That probably make it much more feasible for Openreach to take that approach in some special cases if they instruct the "engineers" properly. They'd still need permission to use the cupboard/riser space but that'd be easier than getting power there too.

There will still be cases where they can't run any new cabling to or within a building and might need to consider an alternative technology. My feeling from Openreach regarding MDUs is they're kicking the can down the road in most cases. When an area is rolled out, it seems that flats are skipped. When they get to the point of diminishing returns on the standard deployments, they'll have to circle back and figure out how to retrofit MDUs.

The example that John cited was for the O2VM (Virgin Media) RFoG devices which are purposely designed to be fed from the customer premises in this way.

This should not be confused rather contrasted with Openreach ONT - none of which have native PoE capability on the Ethernet port and can only be powered in this way through the use of an external PoE splitter device, which delivers power to the ONT barrel connector. It’s NOT a standard method of powering the ONT and Openreach won’t provision them in this way - although folks have done it themselves, after the fact. It remains non-standard not approved by Openreach.

Yep, understand the current Openreach ONTs don't support that. Just thinking out loud about what Openreach could do in future to tackle problematic MDUs.

Noting that Ubiquti have PoE powered ONT's, though admittedly they are 24V passive PoE. However if Mikrotik can do a £20 WiFi access point (mAP lite) that supports 24V passive PoE and 802.3af/at it's about time Openreach got their fingers out.

If ONT's start support PoE then routers will start support PoE on their WAN port.

In reply to a post by Cockroach:

Yep, understand the current Openreach ONTs don't support that. Just thinking out loud about what Openreach could do in future to tackle problematic MDUs.

I think it's possibly wishful thinking that copper will figure in resolving that conundrum now for Openreach.

Sure they could do, as technically lots of stuff is quite possible. However given all the messaging, the desire to retire copper (eventually) and of course the huge strategic push with FTTP, I think is massively unlikely that Openreach will ever again embrace any sort of copper broadband tech going forward.

G.fast was a regrettable and expensive strategic mistake for them. I doubt very much they would look to repeat the error with something like MGfast.

On the other hand they are honing and refining how they deliver FTTP. In 2021 that is the only realistic 'last mile' (or several hundred feet in most situations) tech going forward. Even Virgin will get out of the coax game soon enough, despite the promises of D4 etc and push on the FTTP bandwagon.