In reply to a post by aquiss:

In reply to a post by dect:

Out of interest how large was your trial?

I had to refer back, but we ran a sample trial of 25 circuits, with 22 circuits going live (3 fell well out of range, so installs did not complete).

Of the 22 circuits that went live, only 6 were within predicted ranges (and was maintained), the rest were well out of estimates. We had a couple of examples where the customer was literally 50-75 metres from the cabinet, but had syncs that were well less than 50% of expected.

We concluded that supplying a customer a predicted pre-sales range that was accurate, as we are expected to do, was simply not possible in the most cases. Factoring in everything, we felt commercially the product was going to be problematic and we would be wasting a lot of resources on something with such a small footprint. We therefore took the decision to focus on FTTP instead.

Thank you for explaining your reasoning, its much appreciated as always.

In reply to a post by aquiss:

We had a couple of examples where the customer was literally 50-75 metres from the cabinet, but had syncs that were well less than 50% of expected.

Yeah I find it so strange as one of my family friend who got G.fast right in front driveway of their house (20 yard away) with BTw estimate full 330/50 and they getting 180/25.

Funny is mine is within 85 yard to the G.fast pod and Openreach engineer tested on his kit with estimate of 210/30 in May but my G.fast are now connected stable at 237/42 with line atten of 38.6dB (both snr 3.1dB but BTw estimate still 230/34.

I should count myself lucky.

xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 43028 Kbps, Downstream rate = 237941 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 42880 Kbps, Downstream rate = 237653 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: G.fast Annex A
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 3.1 3.1
Attn(dB): 38.6 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 4.0

But I believe my family friend should have maximum 330/50 due to very poor BT socket line, poor modem etc. Or poor set up by engineer.

Edited by adslmax (Mon 06-Sep-21 04:10:41)

It's not uncommon for copper lines to take unexpectedly long routes - e.g. running all the way along one side of a road and then all the way back down the other. It's also possible there is a fault; but if they are getting 180/25 then that's still "ultrafast" and similar to the FTTP 160/30 level.

According to those BT network utilisation figures, approaching 1% of all UK households have an active G.Fast service. These are presumably people who can't get FTTP (because if they had a choice of G.Fast and FTTP, you'd expect them to take FTTP).

Openreach is currently building out FTTP at about 2m properties per year, so by G.Fast-enabling 2m+ properties, you could argue they've brought forward the delivery of FTTP to everyone else by around a year. Sure, the G.Fast areas will also need upgrading eventually, and this is already happening in some areas - e.g. Tunbridge Wells.

Hence there has been some success, and at least some of the users are happy.

What we can't see are the churn figures - those who try it and then leave, either on initial connection, or at the end of their contract.

The operational difficulties with G.Fast - in particular the inability to predict accurately the speeds available before service, and the sensitivity to cabling quality and other issues - means that it's not an attractive proposition for communication providers. What they want is a service that consistently delivers what it promises, and keeps as many customers as possible off the phone.

I have not seen it stated anywhere but my guess is that the stop copper and move to VoIP will retain the copper to the premises / cab link ?.

How much of the throughput does it use ?.

I see allsorts of issues when trying to fix broadband problems over the phone with your ISP.

Restart your router etc, unless you are using a router/phone adapter.

The copper will still be active to the Exchange but only for ADSL

Thanks
Dan

In reply to a post by lmschuffer:

I have not seen it stated anywhere but my guess is that the stop copper and move to VoIP will retain the copper to the premises / cab link ?.

How much of the throughput does it use ?.

Yes, it will be VOIP over copper xDSL except for those properties where FTTP is available.

Openreach are launching SOGEA products providing 0.5M down and up for where a voice-only service is required, but in reality a voice call uses only about 0.1Mbps (a bit more for "HD" voice)

In reply to a post by lmschuffer:

I see allsorts of issues when trying to fix broadband problems over the phone with your ISP.

Restart your router etc, unless you are using a router/phone adapter.

I expect people will use a mobile to talk to their ISP. This isn't really any different today when the copper line has completely failed, or is so crackly that you can't talk over it.

In the same sort of timescale, the shared rural mobile network is being rolled out - full completion due by "early 2027" but substantial coverage increases before then.

…. also for connecting bro the TAMS test system

I must be missing something here.

If copper to the exchange will continue for adsl and testing that seems to defeat the object which I thought was to close exchanges, sell off the buildings/sites and recover the copper ?.

When my ISP has run KBD ( I'm on FTTC ) I have always thought it was ( mainly ) interested in the copper between cab and home.

Certainly the cable length it reports is much shorter than it is from the exchange.

I also expected that the DLM data bins gather was being done over its fibre connection.

Perhaps, there are separate tests for ADSL and FTTC ?.

2025 is the date for PSTN closure. That is separate to anything happening in the local loop.
TAMS can perform additional line testing that cannot be done from the DSLAMs (AFAIK), though there is wealth of data available from the DSLAMs so not sure how relevant TAMS is except for exchange based xDSL circuits.
Ultimately openreach will be left with a fully fibre based local from the exchange to DSLAM or FTTP , except for some fringe locations, and VOIP phone service. They can then start looking at exchange closures (already happening) and E side copper recovery ( already happening)

Edited by witchunt (Tue 07-Sep-21 12:02:54)

In reply to a post by lmschuffer:

I must be missing something here.

If copper to the exchange will continue for adsl and testing that seems to defeat the object which I thought was to close exchanges, sell off the buildings/sites and recover the copper ?.

When my ISP has run KBD ( I'm on FTTC ) I have always thought it was ( mainly ) interested in the copper between cab and home.

Certainly the cable length it reports is much shorter than it is from the exchange.

I also expected that the DLM data bins gather was being done over its fibre connection.

Perhaps, there are separate tests for ADSL and FTTC ?.

Buildings? Our exchange is a couple of rooms in the same building that the transport police use