In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

If I did have to wait 18 months for FTTPoD: a) do you pay upfront on order or when work starts? b) can you cancel before work starts when the whole street gets connected by OR or CityFibre and only lose the £250 survey fee?

1. Desktop quote (free). Indicative +/- at least 100%, gets the ball rolling. Takes about a week to ten days to get a ‘price’
2. Survey time. Decide if you want to progress beyond the desktop quite. Pay £250+VAT. Wait to get a survey date booked - a few days to a few weeks elapsed. Survey gets done, then wait a further 2 weeks to a month to get pricing back to your provider
3. Provider sends you the quote to proceed. You have as I recall 3 months to accept. You must pay the full amount (less any vouchers etc.) in order to progress the order.

You have 30 days to pay in full (or at least it was when I ordered), after which the order lapses and you lose your £250+VAT.

There is some hope that if you are eligible for the reduced pricing, meaning it's a "simple" install with less than 500m of cable needing to be pulled, and if this is a new estate with modern ducting, that you could get the install done in 4-6 months.

The delays occur when any issues are found, like a collapsed duct. Unfortunately, rather than identifying all the issues at once and getting them all fixed, OR stop as soon as the first issue is found. It then takes 2 or 3 weeks to book a repair team to sort it. Then a couple of weeks later the cabling team come back in - and if they find another problem further along, the whole cycle repeats.

Although OpenReach deploy multiple splitters within a single enclosure, the important number is 30 per splitter.

It wouldn't matter if they had a medium splitter with 10 free slots if 5 free slots were on 1 splitter and 5 on the other.
OpenReach don't split a single CBT between 2 different splitters, even within the same enclosure.
The OP needs a splitter nearby with enough free slots to feed his entire DP

The most common deployed enclosure is the medium, up to 60 premises (2 x 30).
My street for example has 2 of these, 1 at either end of the street.

The fact the OP may have a splitter within 500m with enough capacity doesn't mean they will use it.
OpenReach tend to install CBT's as close to properties as possible and the splitter as close the CBT's as possible.

I really can't see OpenReach feeding a CBT from an adjacent estate or the very opposite end of an estate on a modern new build estate.
They are far more likely to deploy a new splitter, 1 with enough capacity to feed the remaining properties.
Looking at the OP's estate there are a considerable number of properties that have been missed from the FTTP rollout, all completely surrounded by other OpenReach FTTP.

It would be a bit of a mess in a few years time if a single CBT on the street is fed from a splitter 450m away but every other CBT in the street is fed from a nearby splitter.

IMO OpenReach are likely to want to install a splitter for the OP if he ordered FTTPoD. It's not as simple as enough capacity existing within reach.

Yes you are correct it was a 28 day acceptance period, I just went back and checked. Not sure why I thought it was 3 months, memory must be fading...

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Although OpenReach deploy multiple splitters within a single enclosure, the important number is 30 per splitter.

It wouldn't matter if they had a medium splitter with 10 free slots if 5 free slots were on 1 splitter and 5 on the other.
OpenReach don't split a single CBT between 2 different splitters, even within the same enclosure.
The OP needs a splitter nearby with enough free slots to feed his entire DP

The most common deployed enclosure is the medium, up to 60 premises (2 x 30).
My street for example has 2 of these, 1 at either end of the street.

The fact the OP may have a splitter within 500m with enough capacity doesn't mean they will use it.
OpenReach tend to install CBT's as close to properties as possible and the splitter as close the CBT's as possible.

I really can't see OpenReach feeding a CBT from an adjacent estate or the very opposite end of an estate on a modern new build estate.
They are far more likely to deploy a new splitter, 1 with enough capacity to feed the remaining properties.
Looking at the OP's estate there are a considerable number of properties that have been missed from the FTTP rollout, all completely surrounded by other OpenReach FTTP.

It would be a bit of a mess in a few years time if a single CBT on the street is fed from a splitter 450m away but every other CBT in the street is fed from a nearby splitter.

IMO OpenReach are likely to want to install a splitter for the OP if he ordered FTTPoD. It's not as simple as enough capacity existing within reach.

Reading the briefing if you take Openreach at face value with this, then if a customer is within the distance limits (as the whole point of the trial is "near network") then surely when they state very plainly "where a splitter exists" is the sum total of the criteria?

No more carveouts or caveats related to future network planning, placement of splitters for such or for that matter capacity or planning for native FTTP above and beyond...

This is otherwise just the same FoD system as previous. I'm sure my FoD build didn't enable the entire village.....just as the OP's (should he proceed) wouldn't enable the entire estate. If you catch my drift.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Reading the briefing if you take Openreach at face value with this, then if a customer is within the distance limits (as the whole point of the trial is "near network") then surely when they state very plainly "where a splitter exists" is the sum total of the criteria?

That's only taking a snippet of the briefing. Reading the whole briefing suggests it's not as simple as if a splitter exists.

For eligible orders, the FOD build charge under the trial will be set at:

£1,625 where a splitter exists, but a connectorised block terminal (CBT) needs to be built

£2,650 where a new splitter build is required, as well as the CBT build

This is otherwise just the same FoD system as previous. I'm sure my FoD build didn't enable the entire village.....just as the OP's (should he proceed) wouldn't enable the entire estate. If you catch my drift.

Then every FoD build would be with a small splitter, with no future expansion in mind. That isn't the case though.
They install the appropriate splitter with a future rollout in mind, although only enabling a single CBT.

Previously most FTTPoD quotes took no consideration of nearby plant at all and quoted for a full build from the Aggregation Node.

This trial to me seems aimed at those with a splitter and/or CBT that is intended to be used for their property being within reach and not just any splitter or CBT within 500m. Such as an FTTP build that ended in your street, not 6 streets away.

If it was the latter then OpenReach would soon be criss crossing splitters and CBT's from any old direction every time a FoD order is made within 500m of an existing build.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

This trial to me seems aimed at those with a splitter and/or CBT that is intended to be used for their property being within reach and not just any splitter or CBT within 500m. Such as an FTTP build that ended in your street, not 6 streets away.

If it was the latter then OpenReach would soon be criss crossing splitters and CBT's from any old direction every time a FoD order is made within 500m of an existing build.

The criteria don't mention anything about being within 500m of a CBT. The mention of CBTs here in relation to qualifying criteria for this trial is a red herring. For FoD a new CBT will always be required, otherwise it wouldn't be FoD . The notes say:

Qualifying criteria for FOD orders within the trial will be based on specific network conditions and are as follows:

- Head end capacity and spine capacity exists
- Distance from either the planned NGA aggregation node or an existing FTTP splitter to the target FOD end customer premises is 500m or less


If it was as you say, a splitter that was intended to be used for their property , why would they not say that?

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

This trial to me seems aimed at those with a splitter and/or CBT that is intended to be used for their property being within reach and not just any splitter or CBT within 500m. Such as an FTTP build that ended in your street, not 6 streets away.

Yes, that is very well put.

Splitter locations are planned, and the CBT is only connected to the splitter whose footprint it is within. That may be an existing splitter (could be if you are close to an existing FoD but not served by the same CBT); but if that splitter doesn't exist, it will be built - at extra cost.

Woolwich

As I see it, Everything up to Nanotech at Number 47 has FTTP available.

Everything from 50 onwards and the whole of the Oldbar Estate only has FTTC.

Google images on the estate are from 2019 and the roads appear to be unadopted. If this is still the case this indicates to me that the developer either intends to continue building or ( more likely) that he has not completely complied with some of the planning conditions. This would lead to OR not wanting to do any work until this is remedied as they would not want the bill / blame for any remedy work. (Raeswood Road does appear to be adopted .

I do wonder why Wimpey did not ask for FTTP when the estate was built in 2017 and only asked for copper. The FTTC seems to have been added later and if subsidised may have a grant term to run until OR can do anything else without repaying the subsidy.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

If it was as you say, a splitter that was intended to be used for their property , why would they not say that?

It doesn't say that. It doesn't need to.

What is does say is

£2,650 where a new splitter build is required, as well as the CBT build

Either a new splitter build is required or not. If 1 is being built it is chargeable. It reads as being that simple to me.

Therefore it is irrelevant *to the price* if there is a splitter 400m away with capacity that isn't intended on being used for that property.
If a splitter is built/installed, there's an extra £1,025 compared to just a CBT being installed.
The distant splitter simply gives eligibility to the trial pricing.

Distance from either the planned NGA aggregation node or an existing FTTP splitter to the target FOD end customer premises is 500m or less

Edited by j0hn83 (Thu 11-Nov-21 22:57:45)

If there OP has an FTTP splitter node existing and it is within 500m then he is eligible under the terms of this "near network" FoD trial. That's my point.

The question of whether an existing node can actually be be used, is to an extent a 'nice too have' £1,230 further discount. I think that is your point - the delta cost.

To my mind the really important fact is if the OP wants FoD, under this trial pricing, then the material cost is not the average £8K it has crept up to but more like £3K after VAT. Still a lot obviously but far more palatable given that a native build might still happen within window of a few years.