Some interesting observations here...

In reply to a post by kitcat:

As I see it, Everything up to Nanotech at Number 47 has FTTP available.
Everything from 50 onwards and the whole of the Oldbar Estate only has FTTC.

Yes, exactly.

Google images on the estate are from 2019 and the roads appear to be unadopted. ... This would lead to OR not wanting to do any work until this is remedied as they would not want the bill / blame for any remedy work.

Correct, the whole development is unadopted. I doubt the roads will be adopted for a few years. That's not unusual central Scotland AFAIK. But the unadopted status has NOT prevented OR digging up pavements. I know of two places they dug to unblock ducts. And they've done a usual patch, they haven't restored the pavement by resurfacing the full width. In another street they've dug a trench from a (JF4?) pavement box along the footway then over a grass area to go to the neighbouring estate. So I'm not buying the road adoption status as the reason I'm not getting FTTP.

I do wonder why Wimpey did not ask for FTTP when the estate was built in 2017 and only asked for copper. The FTTC seems to have been added later and if subsidised may have a grant term to run until OR can do anything else without repaying the subsidy.

Oh, interesting.
The entire estate was built by two developers, Miller and Taylor Wimpy. All of the Miller houses are served by the existing PCP 20. The Taylor Wimpy houses got a brand new PCP 84. PCP 20 already had a FTTC DSLAM. The Taylor Wimpy houses only had ADSL so made a fuss and the developer funded their DSLAM. According to CodeLook that was in December 2018.

An additional DSLAM was added to PCP 20 in October 2018, I may be on that or I may have found a slot on the original by being on the wait list. But as far as I know that DSLAM was funded by OR. After all PCP 20 has nearly 1000 subscribers.

[My theory about not having native FTTP during construction is the development was planned just before OR changed their rules about who pays. I'm sure all of the other developments from around this period do have FTTP, but it would be at the planning, not building stage these decisions were made.]

The Miller part of the development was done in two phases, or there are two distinct sections. The first phase now has FTTP. That itself was done in stages. At first only a dozen houses were connected. Then a few more and finally (after the pavements were dug up!) the whole of phase one connected.

I'm now starting to see why the Taylor Wimpy houses don't have FTTP, but the second phase of the Miller development? Still no good reason. Unless, as I've previously thought, OR want their money back on the second DSLAM before investing more. And/or this phase is being lumped in with Taylor Wimpy because in the end it will be cheaper to do the whole are at once rather than come twice. But that's not what happened in phase one...

So, how long to 'pay back' the DSLAM investment?

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

Correct, the whole development is unadopted. I doubt the roads will be adopted for a few years. That's not unusual central Scotland AFAIK. But the unadopted status has NOT prevented OR digging up pavements. I know of two places they dug to unblock ducts.

Being unadopted won't prevent OR digging at the request of the developer. If the developer ordered FTTP for Phase 1 then they gave OpenReach permission to dig.

The digging often delays the council adopting the roads. It's usually around 2 years from completion of the development in Scotland unless further works are planned.
The roads/pavements being dug up can reset the clock on the council adopting the roads.
No idea how it works in England.

So I'm not buying the road adoption status as the reason I'm not getting FTTP.

The roads being unadopted can and regularly does affect/delay/even prevent OpenReach doing certain works.

It's not just a case of using their code powers and getting the necessary permit via the council.
It's the developers road and the developer may want to the council to adopt the road so won't give OpenReach more permission to dig, as that can delay the road adoption.

Unless, as I've previously thought, OR want their money back on the second DSLAM before investing more

It isn't that.
OpenReach regularly overbuild newly installed VDSL2 and G.Fast DSLAM's with FTTP. Sometimes they overbuild them before they even go live.
They certainly have no worries about overbuilding 1 that was installed a couple years ago.

There's a few possible reasons why you have been either overlooked or deliberately missed for now.

1. It's the unadopted roads.
2. Lacking in spine capacity to do the remaining properties.
3. There's a known blockage/civils task required that takes the project over budget.
4. You've simply been overlooked for now. They can't do everyone at once.
5. There's 101 other less common possible reasons

I wouldn't recommend you get a quote under the new FTTPoD trial.
The chances are high you would have FTTP or at least be in plans by the time they built FoD to you.

Being a modern, fully ducted estate it's a case of when, not if.

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 12-Nov-21 13:17:37)

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Being unadopted won't prevent OR digging at the request of the developer. If the developer ordered FTTP for Phase 1 then they gave OpenReach permission to dig.

I'm certain the developer did not order FTTP. There was no FTTP infrastructure provision during construction. Seems unlikely they would pay OR to retro build and then in only part of the estate.



I said

Unless, as I've previously thought, OR want their money back on the second DSLAM before investing more

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

It isn't that.

How about the Taylor Wimpy DSLAM then? That could be causing a delay in the other parts as well?

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

I wouldn't recommend you get a quote under the new FTTPoD trial.
The chances are high you would have FTTP or at least be in plans by the time they built FoD to you.

Being a modern, fully ducted estate it's a case of when, not if.

You think I'll see FTTP within the year to 18 months then? If I knew that I would be happier. Openreach won't tell me anything other than they have "no commercial plans". Their map suggests my exchange area will be complete by April 2024. I don't know of more than a eight to ten streets not yet connected. So I think they're done here, we're missed out for one of the reasons you give and we'll be part of the mop up in 2026.

Woolwich

When you describe the whole development as two builders, is the Miller phase 1 Raeswood Cresent? (Which now has FTTP).

and the 2nd phase plus Wimpey the Oldbar streets.( Miller one side or Raeswood Road, Wimpey the other)

OR are likely to plan these different 'lobes' in different batches so the first has been done but the newer parts have yet to be done. Even back in 2015 developments this big could have FTTP for free if the builder asked. It was far easier to do FTTP on a new estate of this size than find the exchange equipment and duct space to do copper. BUT the decision was the builders not OR.

At some point OR would have looked at the development that was in situ and planned FTTP to cover what existed. This could be 18months or longer before it actually was provided. If the developer was building a new phase and hadn't requested FTTP it would not be included as the builder does all the infrastructure build. ( Including pavement boxes for splitters, CBTs etc)..

Eventually OR will go back and look at the missing part and plan that.. The parts are separate enough that they would need separate plans. the whole Existing Oldbar section would need 5-6 PONs so 2-3 splitters depending on size. This may need a whole new GPON head end etc.

In reply to a post by kitcat:

When you describe the whole development as two builders, is the Miller phase 1 Raeswood Cresent? (Which now has FTTP).
and the 2nd phase plus Wimpey the Oldbar streets.( Miller one side or Raeswood Road, Wimpey the other)

Pretty much. Miller's phase one runs as far as 47 Raeswood. Beyond that everything east of Raeswood is Miller, to the west Taylor Wimpy.

But this is my description. In real life Miller were building east of Reaswood (phase 2) as the others were finishing off. Taylor Wimpy were building their area before Miller phase 2 was started. I'm describing the 'phases' more to show how the three areas are being treated differently.

OR are likely to plan these different 'lobes' in different batches so the first has been done but the newer parts have yet to be done.

Yes but in reality they were all build at the same time, there was no pause in building after phase 1 was done, everything was done as if it was one big development - which it really is!

At some point OR would have looked at the development that was in situ and planned FTTP to cover what existed. This could be 18months or longer before it actually was provided. If the developer was building a new phase and hadn't requested FTTP it would not be included as the builder does all the infrastructure build. ( Including pavement boxes for splitters, CBTs etc)..

The developers didn't ask for FTTP, that's water under the bridge so now these streets are the same as every other in the Halfway exchange area. Except with brand new ducts and pavement boxes every 100 metres or so. The roads and pavements were already built for the entire estate - including the last plot at the far end of Raeswood. All the utilities were under the road. There were kerbs and pavements. The pavements had OR boxes and ducts. All before the first sod was dug for foundations.

Eventually OR will go back and look at the missing part and plan that.. The parts are separate enough that they would need separate plans. the whole Existing Oldbar section would need 5-6 PONs so 2-3 splitters depending on size. This may need a whole new GPON head end etc.

So remember this is a Fibre First exchange area. The entire area should already be planned for. The whole estate existed before the FF rollout started. So my moans aren't just about my street being missed and another done. Most folk coming to these forums saying that haven't (until recently) been in Fibre First areas. Ah, but not every street in an area will be done. Fair enough but find me another street in Halfway that hasn't been completed. Or in plan.

I'd be happy if OR gave a reason. Yes maybe its the adopted status. I did ask - directly - but whatever the question the answer was alway "don't know". In other words, not saying, still "no plans".

Which - to come back to my OP - is the cause of further frustration. After I made a fuss I was in plan. But now I'm not.

Woolwich

The only other things are legal and I do not have the knowledge of the Scottish legal system to guess what 'covenants' may apply. But until they expire it is unlikely that anybody will be providing FTTP to the 2 later phases.

Once these expire I would expect OR to be quite quick as they will be looking to 'stop sell' on the copper products. for the whole exchange.