In reply to a post by CarlTSpeak:

That your months long contemplation of whether or not to take FTTP has been made: you'll take whatever is cheapest.

In fairness to Adrian he has been consistent, See post from 18 months ago back in November 2020.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I am with plusnet for at least another 14 months anyway, my contract comes to the end in 2022, Myself I am not sure if I would want to go full fibre, well I suppose it depends on price. i have a good deal with plusnet at the moment and if they offer a good deal that is a fair bit below ZZOOMM price then i will stay with plusnet.
Zzoomm is £29 a month for the 100Mb/s according to their website, I am paying £23 a month for 35Mb/s with plusnet, may not seem a lot of difference, but it is £6 a month, ok, it may not seem a lot, but paying another £6 a month for something that is never going to be used to its full potential is a waste.

In reply to a post by dect:

Yeah 38 years on and people are still bringing it up as justification for BT Group being treated different.

I look at wages at BT now and find a fair few employees are being paid less than what I was on 25 years ago when I worked for them, shame some here believe the bar at BT should be lowered to the same level as those companies entering the industry today who just want to make a fast buck.

Those companies entering the industry are, in many cases, paying above the market rate due to the UK's labour market.

Those companies 'entering the industry today who just want to make a fast buck' are the only reason Openreach are rolling out FTTP. In their arrogance BT Group were hoping to palm people off with G.fast. Indeed they were super proud of it.

BT definitely have a few things they may justifiably complain about, however a major one, having to sit on copper for years, is self-inflicted.

Having to offer PIA isn't one of them - they are lucky they weren't forced to deploy point to point fibre and passively unbundle it. Being unable to access a few hundred metres of altnet duct here and there isn't one of those issues. I fully imagine that once VMO2 are done with their own FTTP overbuild another look will be taken at opening up their infrastructure.

VMO2 offering multigig wholesale is probably going to keep the regulator quiet for a while. Openreach's need for PIA to other networks is kinda undermined by that their build, even without this, is coming in at the bottom of the cost estimate range.

In reply to a post by dect:

In fairness to Adrian he has been consistent, See post from 18 months ago back in November 2020.

Referencing the year and a half of repetition on various vaguely related threads and stories was exactly the point. Now it's settled hopefully won't have to read that FTTP is too expensive on many vaguely related stories and threads across this forum, website news comments, and other sites.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

When people say "there's no competition for this FTTP provider", they tend to forget that the primary competition is FTTC.

If they provide FTTP at a higher price than FTTC, most people won't take it, even if it's faster or more reliable.

Is it? If someone lives virtually next door to the cabinet and get a good 80Mb/s or so, then yes, FTTC is a good option as long as the price is there, but a lot of people get less than me, my next door neighbour for a start, about 26Mb/s with FTTC, how I have no idea as they are on the same cabinet as me. So if they want a little more speed, they have no choice but to go for FTTP, not that they will.


As few years ago I went for a wireless network as it was better than ADSl I had at the time and cost more or less the same, sadly it went downhill and got slower and slower and by that time FTTC was here for the same price, so i went with that.
but when the wireless network was working ok, it was great and reliable, sadly they underestimated the amount of people that went for it and could not cope.

I am not bothered about the technology behind the broadband as long as it is reliable, at a decent price and I can do what I need to do with it.

In reply to a post by CarlTSpeak:

Referencing the year and a half of repetition on various vaguely related threads and stories was exactly the point. Now it's settled hopefully won't have to read that FTTP is too expensive on many vaguely related stories and threads across this forum, website news comments, and other sites.

But it is too expensive, certainly now with the cost of living rising.
i know people say that when ADSL first came out we were paying £40 a month for around half a Megabit a second, and that we are now getting faster speed for less, and yes I agree the amount of data we use is now a lot more as well. But we send that same amount of data if it is FTTC or FTTP, just faster with FTTP.

Talk Talk is £32 a month for 150Mb/s, to be honest I thought that would be cheap due to them using open reach network, but it is only £1 cheaper than the same speed on Zzoomm.


i know of a household that is still on dial up, I did know two, but I managed to get one onto a mobile network.

In reply to a post by CarlTSpeak:

Now it's settled hopefully won't have to read that FTTP is too expensive on many vaguely related stories and threads across this forum, website news comments, and other sites.

Thats what these forums are all about, for regular folk (not just you IT professionals although I've seen your posts on other sites about that point) to discuss all things broadband even if its not to everyone's taste.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Talk Talk is £32 a month for 150Mb/s, to be honest I thought that would be cheap due to them using open reach network

It should be more expensive due to using the Openreach network, because Openreach has regulated pricing which means they can't charge *below* a certain level - whereas the Altnets can charge what they like.

FYI, Talktalk's FTTP service doesn't include voice. That may or may not matter to you.

Certainly Talktalk need to offer a cheaper 80/20 or 40/10 FTTP service, and include a voice option, if they are going to retain customers when copper stop-sell happens.

You can get FTTP (80/20) from Sky for £28 per month. BT Retail are similar pricing, and sometimes you can get cashback or prepaid Mastercard deals. However with BT you are locked in for 24 months, and the reputation of their customer service is not good.

You say it should be more expensive, but it is not, ok Talk Talk is only a quid a month cheaper than ZZoomm, but a quid is a quid it is easier to change over to a new provider on the open reach network, so they all have to stay competitive. With Alt networks, how many people would want the hassle of changing back to the open reach network? It is hassle having the alt netrwork installed in the first place, with gardens and paths being dug up.

I have VoIP anyway, I have not used the voice on my landline since I got plusnet and came back to fixed cable broadband. Zzoomm i think have some kind of VoIP, I don't know if it costs any extra.


I can't get FTTP from anyone, at the moment , but yes I did have a look at different prices, including Sky and BT.

ZZoomm is now 24 months, they give you 6 months free at the start, but extended the contract to 24, I am, not signing up for 24 months again for anything, 18 months is long enough.

Zzoomm's Facebook page for Hereford seems to be getting full of complaints, noticed another one this morning, about a gate being left on the floor by Zzoomm, If I had a decent driveway with block paving or slabs, I would be worried that they would not do a decent job and put it back correctly.
If I did have Zzoomm, then the fibre can go down a small border down the side of the steps and then all they need to do is dig a small trench across the front door step.
anyway, still months yet before they even get anywhere near, they are still on the other side of the river and also where they first started.

In reply to a post by CarlTSpeak:

paying above the market rate due to the UK's labour market.

You mean the ability to employ cheap labour from else where (I saw your post today on another site). Lets hope Openreach don't get any ideas of doing a full on P&O with their staff as that would be one way to lower the bar.

Edited by deleted (Wed 13-Apr-22 17:07:19)

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by CarlTSpeak:

paying above the market rate due to the UK's labour market.

You mean the ability to employ cheap labour from else where (I saw your post today on another site). Lets hope Openreach don't get any ideas of doing a full on P&O with their staff as that would be one way to lower the bar.

No, I'm referring to how in-demand their skills are, and how rare those skills are. There isn't a big pool of unemployed talent capable of taking the jobs and the altnets don't have the resources to train them so they have to entice them from their current employers. Nothing at all to do with employing cheap labour, that comment referred to how stretched the civils contractors are for manpower.

If Openreach are able to replace their staff with cheap, unskilled labour from abroad en masse there are far bigger issues than my opinions, and I really need to check my 5G backup and make sure i the mast isn't hanging off an Openreach EAD.

EDIT: You missed out the earlier part of the sentence referring to new entrants to the market. They are cash rich and splashing it to secure the best people, not undercutting Openreach routinely.

Edited by CarlTSpeak (Fri 15-Apr-22 14:41:32)