FTTH compatibility.

Having only just recovered from nearly 2 years of grief during the City Fibre (CF) rollout in our street, we’ve been shocked to learn that a neighbour who has signed up for Sky’s full Fibre has been told by OpenReach (OP) that they don’t use CF’s installation and will take up the footways to lay their own.
Please please can anyone tell me OP are not correct and if possible the reason either way.
Many thanks.

In reply to a post by rombic:

Having only just recovered from nearly 2 years of grief during the City Fibre (CF) rollout in our street, we’ve been shocked to learn that a neighbour who has signed up for Sky’s full Fibre has been told by OpenReach (OP) that they don’t use CF’s installation and will take up the footways to lay their own.
Please please can anyone tell me OP are not correct and if possible the reason either way.

They are correct that Openreach won't use CF's infrastructure. (However it can work the other way round - that is, CF and other altnets can use Openreach's infrastructure)

If Sky's Full Fibre delivered over the Openreach network is available to order for your neighbour, then that means the Openreach network has already been built to some point just outside your neighbour's house - either on a pole, or in an underground chamber, where there will be a Connectorised Block Terminal (CBT). They won't be digging up the public footway in response to an individual order.

Getting from the CBT to the house normally uses an underground lead-in duct (if it exists), or an aerial fibre (if fed from a pole).

If your neighbour's copper connection is buried "Direct In Ground", then Openreach may decide to lay a new lead-in duct - that is, dig up the customer's own driveway. It's an expensive thing to do, so they should be grateful for it. In this situation, often Openreach will install a new pole instead, which is cheaper but uglier.

I'm pretty sure that Cityfibre would only have built their network to the boundary of the property, in a "Toby box". So even if your neighbour ordered from Cityfibre, they would still have to get the connection up their driveway.

I wrote an answer but yours is far more comprehensive and better @candlerb, so wiped it before posting.

The only other consideration I had, was that if there is overbuild in the same coverage area with CF and Openreach and where there are ISP's that are present on both (i.e. like Zen or Vodafone) then they will prefer one network over the other - usually in favour of CityFibre.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

They are correct that Openreach won't use CF's infrastructure. (However it can work the other way round - that is, CF and other altnets can use Openreach's infrastructure)

More a case of can't rather than won't. CF could allow them access but they will not.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

They won't be digging up the public footway in response to an individual order.

Although I'm sure that's normally true, I forgot that I have experienced a counter-example.

I had FTTPoD installed three years ago, which put a CBT in the footway box right outside my property. As a side effect, two of my neighbours became FTTP-enabled in the checker. The next ones either side hadn't, and I didn't check any further.

However, it turns out that strangely, a neighbour 3 doors away had also been marked as FTTP enabled. I don't know why - perhaps it was a mistake, or perhaps their copper is served from a DP in my footway box. When the people living there renewed their contract with Vodafone, VF told them they could have full fibre, and so they ordered it.

When Openreach came out to install it, they found that there was no duct from my footway box to the one outside their property.

Rather than simply reject the order (on the grounds that their database was wrong), they actually came back, surveyed it, and a few weeks later dug up the pavement between my house and theirs to lay a brand new duct.

I think it was really a case of following what the computer said, rather than questioning it.

But it goes to show: you *can* end up with a dug-up footway just from placing an order. The neighbour effectively got FTTPoD for free

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

They are correct that Openreach won't use CF's infrastructure. (However it can work the other way round - that is, CF and other altnets can use Openreach's infrastructure)

More a case of can't rather than won't. CF could allow them access but they will not.

Well said.

Would Openreach even *want* to use CityFibre's microducts - which only run between a Cityfibre cabinet and each individual property?

Unless those cabinets have space to contain Openreach CBTs or ODFs, then Openreach would have to pull a fibre from the CBT up to the cabinet and from there to the property. Furthermore it would have to be a small fibre cable that can be blown through CF's microducts, not their regular outdoor cable.

Traditional ducts are much more amenable to sharing.

It seems odd that Sky don't have a deal with CF.

In reply to a post by bowdon:

It seems odd that Sky don't have a deal with CF.

Renting space in CF's FEx is pretty expensive and Sky couldn't come to commercial terms. Perhaps now there's a national product becoming available.

But, imagine, a length between two boxes is not ducted, but DIG … so Altnet provides a duct between the two, having used the existing OR duct to get this far, but then, if needed OR cannot use the the Altnet provided duct ….. PIA ? PITA I say.

Why not a single fibre infrastructure provider going back to ‘communal’ nodes allowing whomever to provide FTTP without digging again, or cramming more plant up the top of the stick ….