been looking into this, (about to get an Aquiss 900 fttp line, when Openreach get their fingers out & finish the ONT installation) it *seems* the main problem with PPPoe these days is for those of us running *bsd based routers/firewalls (Opnsense / pfSense & the like), in these the pppoe process is only single threaded so throughput is limited to what a single core can handle (getting gb takes some serious omph). switch to a Linux based devise & throughput rockets.

There are various consumer routers which *claim* to be able to handle these speeds with PPoE (I *think* Openwret is capable on very modest hardware, might have to try it, when I can)

I've always assumed that the PPPoE is the encapsulation that lets so many companies provide service over another companies infrastructure, is there *any* isp that provides service over Openreach infrastructure (not LLU) that *doesn't* use PPPoE?

TalkTalk (resi) and Sky

> isp that provides service over Openreach infrastructure (not LLU) that *doesn't* use PPPoE?

I think he meant "Openreach infrastructure (not other than BT Wholesale)". If TT or Sky wholesales are not available I don't think Sky or TalkTalk would serve that address.

Edited by weelan (Wed 26-Jan-22 19:00:13)

In reply to a post by candlerb:

The user will still need a CPE to perform routing functions, including NAT.

Well if the ISP pulled there finger out and implemented IPv6 ....

You would still likely need a switch and WiFi access points but PPPoE needs to die die die.

What are the Elite-5 group of ISPs in any event? Does this concept exist anywhere other than the OPs imagination? 🤣😎

In reply to a post by zzing123:

Interesting. So a simpler, cheaper, flatter network and proves GEA is a load of unnecessary [censored] that really should be handled as part of a larger backhaul network (whether wholesale or directly) and that Ofcom should think harder about what to regulate.

You'd probably need to trunk connections into fatter connections to the switches to save space (I don't know why the OLTs only have 10GbE and not something faster or even DWDM directly), but it seems a lot simpler, cheaper and more scalable.

The 10G ports on the OLTs are just PHY on line cards. The OLT can certainly provide higher capacity ports when they need to, though obviously that'll mean fewer cablelinks per card due to backplane restrictions.

GEA is the same - QinQ. The PPP part runs over the top. Openreach can happily insert relevant information into DHCP options or PPP headers to give the CP the information they need to know.

The PPP most of the time is from BT Wholesale, running over the layer 2 GEA service.

Great reply Carl I suspected it was wholesaling related.

deleting rest as is old thread so no need for further discussion.

Edited by Chrysalis (Sat 12-Feb-22 11:10:06)

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

To be fair MikroTik don't use any PPPoE hardware offload, and can manage gigabit class PPPoE connections on many of their models. Most models running quad-core ARM processors from the last few years have oodles of capacity.

Agreed, I have two, one uses PPPoE (BT) soon to end, and the other uses DHCP (CFL) both routers handle them fine and has room for more speed easy.

Paul

In reply to a post by Al_T:

been looking into this, (about to get an Aquiss 900 fttp line, when Openreach get their fingers out & finish the ONT installation) it *seems* the main problem with PPPoe these days is for those of us running *bsd based routers/firewalls (Opnsense / pfSense & the like), in these the pppoe process is only single threaded so throughput is limited to what a single core can handle (getting gb takes some serious omph). switch to a Linux based devise & throughput rockets.

Right, but scrapping *bsd as an option eliminates a lot of consumer choice (e.g. PFsense etc), and why the hell would I want to use more than an entire core for pointlessly encapsulating packets in PPPoE when I could just.... not...

It means any router I use is going to significantly underperform compared to what it could otherwise do, as >1core is doing pointless [censored] it shouldn't need to do.

In reply to a post by Al_T:

I've always assumed that the PPPoE is the encapsulation that lets so many companies provide service over another companies infrastructure, is there *any* isp that provides service over Openreach infrastructure (not LLU) that *doesn't* use PPPoE?

It's a factor of how Openreach have decided to do things, and as almost all ISPs in the UK have an existing infrastructure for Openreach, they like to just reuse the same kit.

I think it was Openreach's technical director who at one point promised PPPoE would be gone by the time they hit gigabit services, but it seems not.

In reply to a post by nemeth782:

It's a factor of how Openreach have decided to do things, and as almost all ISPs in the UK have an existing infrastructure for Openreach, they like to just reuse the same kit.

Sorry, but that is utter utter nonsense.

Openreach's service is Generic Ethernet Access (GEA): it just passes ethernet frames. Whether those are PPP-over-ethernet or IP-over-ethernet, they don't care.

It's the ISPs who decide what protocol to run over it. It's their choice, based on what they decide to use as a remote access server / concentrator, and what sort of CPE routers they want to deploy, and their support and scalability needs.

If your particular choice of router has poor support for PPPoE: I'm afraid that's just poor implementation in your router. Complain to your router vendor, or contribute a fix upstream. If you must, then complain to your ISP (but they will have good reasons to use PPPoE, and will supply CPE that works well with it, and are very unlikely to take your point of view into consideration).

But in any case, *please* don't complain about Openreach when it's absolutely nothing to do with them at all.

Edited by candlerb (Sun 10-Jul-22 20:43:19)