In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

In reply to a post by Taras:

This is the other thing, The OR checker will say YAY, but it can weeks/months for the BTwholesle checker to go from Non to YAY and thats why Sky will say no for longer.

Sky don't use BT Wholesale?

the comment was about availability, and both voda and sky use their own databases (which i was not aware of) and seem to be more up-to-date than btwholesale looking at some recently updated premises that now can receive fttp.

But my whole post was not about sky but about how large infrastructure projects can be slow and boggy in nature. But poking at the sky boo boo was more important in your reply.

I'm only using the OR checker. I doubt that updates are sent downstream in real time.

I have also looked at Ofcom's tracking approach: it looks error prone to me. It track % coverage by postcode, based on the postcodes in late 2022, and mapping these to OS UPRNs. However, the reported coverage is often impossible at the implied precision (1 decimal place).

It's pretty easy to check this by working out the minimal number of delivery addresses that would be required to get a specific figure. It's not unusual for the reported value to require 2x the number of addresses reported for the postcode by royal mail.

Dunno who this could be reported to, unfortunately.

In reply to a post by Taras:

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

In reply to a post by Taras:

This is the other thing, The OR checker will say YAY, but it can weeks/months for the BTwholesle checker to go from Non to YAY and thats why Sky will say no for longer.

Sky don't use BT Wholesale?

the comment was about availability, and both voda and sky use their own databases (which i was not aware of) and seem to be more up-to-date than btwholesale looking at some recently updated premises that now can receive fttp.

But my whole post was not about sky but about how large infrastructure projects can be slow and boggy in nature. But poking at the sky boo boo was more important in your reply.

The Sky stuff, relating to availability, was incorrect which was why I queried it. I apologise if having errors based on faulty assumptions pointed out offends you.

My post was short because I was multitasking and didn't have the time to write about availability checker APIs, cablelinks, why Sky have their own availability checker, etc.

my assumption was that that if sky uses OR products they'd have to use OR availability data, and given how btwholesale's checker is so slow at updating and its like months - been checking some local addresses to guage how quickly BTW update, and its around 6 to 8 weeks.

And if you were multitasking, cool and don't worry about it. Sometimes forum replies can look alot worse than they are .. 😁

I'm not sure if you're misunderstanding what was said or just being a bit sloppy with writing it out, but for the avoidance of doubt the Openreach checker and the BTw checkers are different things, checking for different services.

The Openreach checker is showing whether your property can be served by an FTTP service delivered from the headend exchange, that the infrastructure exists and it's connected to something at the other end. The BTw checker is checking whether a handover exists from Openreach to BTw at that exchange, and whether it has capacity for BTw to offer services. BTw sit at the same level as a customer of Openreach as Sky, TalkTalk etc. If FTTP is being built to a new area then it's not uncommon for Openreach to show FTTP availability months before BTw have connected themselves up, and in the meantime suppliers that don't use BT are often able to provide service.

In reply to a post by Taras:

my assumption was that that if sky uses OR products they'd have to use OR availability data, and given how btwholesale's checker is so slow at updating and its like months - been checking some local addresses to guage how quickly BTW update, and its around 6 to 8 weeks.

And if you were multitasking, cool and don't worry about it. Sometimes forum replies can look alot worse than they are .. 😁

Got it.

Their checkers actually run a check on Openreach's data through an API when you enter your details and from there they also have their own data on top to check if they're able to serve you, so no big lag there - they aren't copying Openreach data periodically it's realtime.

The lag you've seen would've been waiting for BT Wholesale to get their network in order and buy the interconnect with the Openreach OLT serving you.

Openreach checker = is it available between your address and the OLT in the exchange.
BTW/Sky checker = do Openreach show it as available AND is it marked as live on our system, as we've the interconnect and capacity in place to serve it.

If the areas you mention are, broadly, brand new to FTTP they may well be having new Openreach kit installed to serve them as the OLT serving the cabinets will be Huawei or ECI and will be full or Openreach aren't provisioning more areas on them.

From there once Openreach have commissioned the OLT Sky, BTW, etc, have to order fibre between that OLT and their own kit. If they have other capacity upgrades they need to do on top to do anything with that fibre before they start selling that'll ensure further delay between when Openreach release an area and when service providers will.

Worst case Openreach release an area, Sky/BTW/TalkTalk/Zen/Vodafone realise they need more switch ports and bandwidth to connect to the OLT serving that area so have to upgrade their own equipment, order backhaul, and order the Cablelink between the Openreach OLT and their equipment once they have the port in place for it.

Edited by XGS_Is_On (Fri 23-Jun-23 10:43:05)

thank you XGS and Jpm.

My mistake was this

ont --> olt to btwholesale and sold onwards to {talktalk,sky,zen, pn,bt, ee, voda, etc}


where it is

ont --> olt and then btwholesale{zen, pn,bt, ee, etc}, {talktalk, sky, voda, etc}.

note, obviously removed the gpon splitters to make it quicker to type

Ah you were thinking it runs like ADSL where Openreach supply the cabling and someone else puts things at the ends. FTTP runs similarly to FTTC except rather than having a DSLAM in a cabinet in between customers connect to a device, sometimes the same one their FTTC cabinet connects to, in an Openreach exchange.

All now seems to be updated for most ISPs, but not BT (?)

In reply to a post by timcoote:

All now seems to be updated for most ISPs, but not BT (?)

Same with my villiage - circa 12 postcodes have fttp, OR says yay; Zen, sky etc says yay; BT umbrella isps nada ..