In reply to a post by PCJM40:

I agree entirely with you, I'm happy with Openreach as my underlying infrastructure provider and even if someone like Zzoomm then rocked up and became available I wouldn't switch to them.

I'm disappointed with OR's decision to stay asymmetric, I think that is a commercial mistake long term. I'm with Virgin Media coax at the moment as crosstalk on FTTC lowered my upload to a level not usable for home working. The coax is unreliable as you'd expect from 30 year old failing infrastructure. The only alternative in my part of town is an Alt-Net whom have FTTP only 20ft away (on a pole) but say as I'm in flats they are "coming soon".

I suspect both OR and Virgin's network rebuild will turn up in the next 5 years anyway.

Cost and contract length are not everything.

Agreed, I'd prefer 500/500 than 1000/100 but OR don't offer. If VM FTTP, or nexfibre or CityFibre turned up, I would sign up, but I may have to get 1000/1000 from an alt net in 2024 and see how it goes.

Those with multiple network providers are quite lucky, there are some parts of major towns (150,000 people) with still no FTTP from any provider.

Edited by jchamier (Fri 24-Nov-23 19:43:56)

Yeah that's exactly what I did, they gave me a three day repair window which expires today

The report basically says theres a fault outside of my home (don't think they mean right outside) and they will fix it.

So, as long as that happens, all good

In reply to a post by jchamier:

and you chose a network with a single ISP, rather than an open wholesale network (CityFibre or nexfibre or your hated Openreach).


Some areas have the ability to stay with the same ISP but also change "last mile" network. e.g. someone on Vodafone FTTC/Openreach may move to Vodafone FTTP/CityFibre and stay with Vodafone as the ISP and potentially stay with the same static IP. Not common, but not impossible.

I personally would prefer an open network provider, but unfortunately only one is building in my town, and they are again a single ISP network.

As people know on here, I did not want to move to Fibre in the first place, I was fine as I was. But with plusnet trying to push me to fibre and other providers doing the same thing when I tried to get a price from them for FTTC, apart from Now broadband and something called onestream, but they seemed a bit iffy. In theory, Zzoomm has the better network with symmetric connection, which was a small problem with FTTC, 9Mb/s upload was a bit naff. Took ages to send files to people. But I was prepared to live with that if I stayed on FTTC.

I was leaning towards going to Zzoomm, if I have to change than I may as well change to something that is in theory better than Openrerach network, when they sent that leaflet saying 500Mb.s for £24 a month I went for it. I did not realise their 150Mb/s package was on offer, I would have gone for that instead, lower price.


At some point, Zzoomm may allow other providers to use the network, but at the moment I am fine with what I have as long as they keep the network up and running, which they seem to be doing now.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

I agree entirely with you, I'm happy with Openreach as my underlying infrastructure provider and even if someone like Zzoomm then rocked up and became available I wouldn't switch to them. Cost and contract length are not everything.

It was not just cost and contact length, but that did help.

In reply to a post by Cheule:

Yeah that's exactly what I did, they gave me a three day repair window which expires today

The report basically says theres a fault outside of my home (don't think they mean right outside) and they will fix it.

So, as long as that happens, all good

Good luck,

In reply to a post by jchamier:

I'm disappointed with OR's decision to stay asymmetric, I think that is a commercial mistake long term.

And you understand BT Group's commercials better than they do?

If it were true that it was a commercial mistake, *they* would be the ones who would be disappointed, and their shareholders would be pushing for change.

In reality, the vast proportion of "normal" people, i.e. people who are not ThinkBroadband forum members, don't care a hoot about upload speeds. If they can watch TV, download games and make Zoom calls, they're happy.

From OR's point of view when competing against Altnets: let's say they keep 75% of users with the current asymmetric products. Let's say they could increase this to 80% if they introduced fully symmetric products. However by doing so they would be picking up the 5% of users who generate most of the network traffic, costing more than their subscription, and degrading the service for everyone else.

If I were Openreach or VM, I'd be more than happy to let the Altnets have those 5%. It's the Altnets who will be burned long-term, but it keeps up the appearance of competition to Ofcom.

Of course, should the day come where that equation changes, OR/VM are free to turn on symmetric products, at a price point which makes sense from what the market will bear and what it costs to provide them.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

And you understand BT Group's commercials better than they do?

No and I don't pretend to. I am really pleased there is now real wholesale competition for domestic broadband.

If it were true that it was a commercial mistake, *they* would be the ones who would be disappointed, and their shareholders would be pushing for change.

And it will take 20 years to determine.

In reality, the vast proportion of "normal" people, i.e. people who are not ThinkBroadband forum members, don't care a hoot about upload speeds. If they can watch TV, download games and make Zoom calls, they're happy.

That certainly was the case, the pandemic and the move to home working has adjusted this for many of my customers, colleagues, and competitors in the roles we do. This seems to be similar globally.

If I were Openreach or VM, I'd be more than happy to let the Altnets have those 5%. It's the Altnets who will be burned long-term, but it keeps up the appearance of competition to Ofcom.

Burned is a strong word, perhaps they will merge either into VM or a similar competitor.

Of course, should the day come where that equation changes, OR/VM are free to turn on symmetric products, at a price point which makes sense from what the market will bear and what it costs to provide them.

As long as they are installing the right OLT and ONTs, or they've got to swap hardware and visiting homes is expensive.