I thought for years that "Dido" was actually shorthand for "did nothing".

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Maybe we need a government led "Fibre Authority."

Ask Australians what they think about the National Broadband Network.

NBN was undone by poor quality auditing of the condition of the existing network, and an insane kneejerk response to economic conditions resulting in thinking that VDSL would be suitable for a country with the population density of Australia

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Did we learn lessons from the past?

"I wouldn't start from here".

To me it seems don't let politicians interfere as they try to predict the future and even with the best advisors, are mostly wrong.

Would you trust the same people to competently set up and regulate an NBN? They'd likely just tell Openreach to do as they please and we'd all have available whatever looked vaguely competitive with Virgin Media at a similar price point much as we did before.

I can't say the idea of the UK almost singlehandedly keeping GPON kit production in operation in a decade when the cutting edge is 100GPON, XGSPON is starting to wind down and 25/50GPON is today's XGSPON really enthralls. Liberty Global and BT Group would be grateful, though.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Did we learn lessons from the past?

"I wouldn't start from here".

To me it seems don't let politicians interfere as they try to predict the future and even with the best advisors, are mostly wrong.

We've known for years that BT was wanting to roll out full fibre to the premises back in 1990. Stopping it was a huge mistake by Margaret Thatcher.

I've just found a very good two-page write-up about the debacle that has followed. It's quite depressing . (My underlining):

In 1990, a single decision by then-Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher had a devastating effect on the UK's broadband deals infrastructure for the next 20 years and for the foreseeable future.

In a little known story about the UK's broadband history, Dr Peter Cochrane, former Chief Technology Officer at BT and all round tech guru, tells TechRadar how the UK lost the broadband race way back in the 90s.
...
Dr Cochrane knew that Britain's tired copper network was insufficient: "In 1974 it was patently obvious that copper wire was unsuitable for digital communication in any form, and it could not afford the capacity we needed for the future."

He was asked to do a report on the UK's future of digital communication and what was needed to move forward.

"In 1979 I presented my results," he tells us, "and the conclusion was to forget about copper and get into fibre. So BT started a massive effort - that spanned in six years - involving thousands of people to both digitise the network and to put fibre everywhere. The country had more fibre per capita than any other nation.

"In 1986, I managed to get fibre to the home cheaper than copper and we started a programme where we built factories for manufacturing the system. By 1990, we had two factories, one in Ipswich and one in Birmingham, where we were manufacturing components for systems to roll out to the local loop".

Thatcher stopped it.

Later in the same link:

The two factories that BT had built to build fibre related components were sold to Fujitsu and HP, the assets were stripped and the expertise was shipped out to South East Asia.

"Our colleagues in Korea and Japan, who we were working with quite closely at the time, stood back and looked at what happened to us in amazement. What was pivotal was that they carried on with their respective fibre rollouts. And, well, the rest is history as they say.

Edited by pluralist (Sat 20-Apr-24 15:47:35)

Post deleted by pluralist

Your quotes are broken. Its history, I suspect a large majority of people posting on these boards weren't around in 74. We have to move forwards, not look back.

30+ cable firms made sort-of sense in 1990/91, the plan was to make money on the voice calls, and hopefully sell television to compete with the analogue Sky. However the launch of PCN in 1993 and 1994 showed that mobile phones were going to much cheaper in infrastructure costs. By 1999 the cable firms were having to sell internet access; and one might argue that today Virgin Media is more an internet company than a TV or phone company.

It appears nobody in the early 90s government(s) anticipated the internet, or the changes it would bring. BT's Cochrane and others were talking about fibre for decades, but fundemantally this was for voice.

Quotes fixed. The outside ones were the problem as needed removal, being in fact irrelevant as what was enclosed now stands and worked anyway.

The whole point of my post and its linked article, partially quoted, was to give people that history.

I disagree strongly with your understanding of Cochrane's foresight, "In 1974 it was patently obvious that copper wire was unsuitable for digital communication in any form, and it could not afford* the capacity we needed for the future", and your interpretation of the reasons for Thatcher's decision. "In 1986, I managed to get fibre to the home cheaper than copper" and BT started building the factories to make the kit. Operational in 1990.

All in the last two paragraphs of my first quote from the article plus the second quote from it. BT were going ahead with the build and rollout of full FTTP until stopped. As quoted, Japan and Korea went ahead with the tech and the factories and their machinery BT were forced by Thatcher to scrap/sell.

* Some readers may not be familiar with the usage there of "afford" meaning "provide".

Edited by pluralist (Sat 20-Apr-24 18:25:18)

In reply to a post by pluralist:

their machinery BT were forced by Thatcher to scrap/sell.

As I said at the start, politicans can't predict the future. They were driven by non -technology factors, whereas Cochrane was driven by improving technology. In 100 years time we may be able to determine whom was right and whom was wrong.

The IT press debated this a number of years ago; and concluded neither the politicians, nor Cochrane were fully right or fully wrong. It will take historians in decades to come to conclude.

I am glad we don't have a state owned monopoly, as some other countries have. Thankfully, in most built up areas, there is competition for Openreach. If there was not, I would today be stuck with 40 Mbps downlink and 4 Mbps uplink.

Edited by jchamier (Sat 20-Apr-24 18:36:52)