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Standard User FibreBubble
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 29-May-24 21:23:51
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)


[re: Bobby_Valentino] [link to this post] 		 
The Altnets are backed by monster venture capitalists and foreign sovereign wealth funds who were sucked in by the promise of easy money.

The promised demand failed to appear and so the Altnets are now scaling back build and selling at a loss in the hope that they can stimulate demand.

BT are prevented from selling at a loss by regulation designed to encourage investment by monster venture capitalists and foreign sovereign wealth funds.

Things were better under Labour.

Edited by FibreBubble (Wed 29-May-24 21:30:32)
Standard User j0hn83
(knowledge is power) Wed 29-May-24 21:25:52
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)


[re: Bobby_Valentino] [link to this post] 		 
There's no ploy or strategy dictating why 1 is more expensive.

Quite simply as the incumbent monopoly, Openreach pricing (and in turn BT Wholesale pricing) is highly regulated by OFCOM.
Openreach have to run consultations and pretty much get OFCOM approval to lower their prices.

See here for example.

Alt-nets have to price aggressively to take customers away from the Openreach network. Openreach cannot lower prices to compete without jumping through hoops, which the Alt-nets try block through OFCOM.

Openreach's recent Equinox 2 pricing that was eventually approved lowered FTTP pricing a small amount, still nowhere near as low as many Alt-nets are selling to customers for.

It's why providers like Zen default to only offering Cityfibre in areas where both CF & OR FTTP are available.

OFCOM has significantly limited price restrictions on Openreach till 2031 (I think?) during the large scale FTTP rollout to encourage the rollout. They allowed Openreach to RAISE pricing on FTTP £1.70 more than it's copper equivalent.
So they could raise FTTP prices, but need to consult to lower them.

Edited by j0hn83 (Wed 29-May-24 22:44:32)
Standard User XGS_Is_On
(committed) Wed 29-May-24 21:41:31
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)


[re: Bobby_Valentino] [link to this post] 		 
In reply to a post by Bobby_Valentino:
How are Altnet ISP's able to offer relatively cheaper FTTP internet vs BT Wholesale based ISP's ... without the midyear RPI increases etc...?


Regulation. The RPI stuff is irrelevant but more widely a reasonably efficient third party must be able to undercut BT Business.

If Openreach and BT generally could charge as they pleased in these segments there would be no competition and we'd all end up paying more for less.


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Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 29-May-24 22:28:07
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)


[re: candlerb] [link to this post] 		 
Other way round of what? 


					
				

			
						
			

			
			

				
					

						

							
			
				Standard User Chrysalis
(legend)
				Wed 29-May-24 22:33:54
					
						
			

			

				
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)
 

			 [re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
					
			
			 
							
						

					

						
			

			

			
				

					Interestingly here, Zen refuse to sell CF.



So Zen as an example have a choice of selling me CF FTTP or OR FTTC, they only offer OR FTTC.  This is for my entire FEX not just my individual address.
					


					
Edited by Chrysalis (Wed 29-May-24 22:35:37)

				

			
						
			

			
			

				
					

						

							
			
				Standard User j0hn83
(knowledge is power)
				Wed 29-May-24 22:43:37
					
						
			

			

				
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)
 

			 [re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
					
			
			 
							
						

					

						
			

			

			
				

					Zen simply don't have a connection to your FEX yet. They aren't refusing to sell.



A provider like Zen might choose to wait until Cityfibre have "x" number of properties connected to their FEX before spending money making their services available from that area.



What I mentioned is only relevant where both CF & OR FTTP are available to an individual property. Zen only show CF FTTP packages online.
					
					
				

			
						
			

			
			

				
					

						

							
			
				Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide)
				Thu 30-May-24 08:49:49
					
						
			

			

				
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)
 

			 [re: witchunt] [link to this post]
					
			
			 
							
						

					

						
			

			

			
				

					
In reply to a post by witchunt:
Alnets don't have a long term survival plan, other than trying to build a limited market share and then consolidating.
Which as I've said all along make the overlapping of cables rather silly. By the end of the year (supposedly) I my property will be passed by three cables. What's the betting that in five year's time there will only be two operators? And the street only ever needed one as long as it carried a wholesale service.
					

---

Andrue Cope

Brackley, UK

					
				

			
						
			

			
			

				
					

						

							
			
				Standard User XGS_Is_On
(committed)
				Thu 30-May-24 14:41:33
					
						
			

			

				
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)
 

			 [re: Andrue] [link to this post]
					
			
			 
							
						

					

						
			

			

			
				

					
In reply to a post by Andrue:
In reply to a post by witchunt:
Alnets don't have a long term survival plan, other than trying to build a limited market share and then consolidating.
Which as I've said all along make the overlapping of cables rather silly. By the end of the year (supposedly) I my property will be passed by three cables. What's the betting that in five year's time there will only be two operators? And the street only ever needed one as long as it carried a wholesale service.




Only three? Hope you're out in the sticks to be so starved of options!



Only way we'd have had one fibre network nationally would have been if it were dark. Bitstream wholesale from a single company in the absence of infrastructure competition probably wouldn't have gone well given how they compete with it now.
					
					
				

			
						
			

			
			

				
					

						

							
			
				Standard User behuk
(regular)
				Thu 30-May-24 18:41:08
					
						
			

			

				
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)
 

			 [re: Andrue] [link to this post]
					
			
			 
							
						

					

						
			

			

			
				

					
In reply to a post by Andrue:
In reply to a post by witchunt:
Alnets don't have a long term survival plan, other than trying to build a limited market share and then consolidating.
Which as I've said all along make the overlapping of cables rather silly. By the end of the year (supposedly) I my property will be passed by three cables. What's the betting that in five year's time there will only be two operators? And the street only ever needed one as long as it carried a wholesale service.




I completely agree. We need the government to tell us which network residents should be allowed to connect to -- it's silly to think that residents might be able to decide for themselves.
					
					
				

			
						
			

			
			

				
					

						

							
			
				Standard User Chrysalis
(legend)
				Fri 31-May-24 01:28:37
					
						
			

			

				
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)
 

			 [re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
					
			
			 
							
						

					

						
			

			

			
				

					They might do this, they might do that, we can speculate to make them look as good as possible.



But for whatever reason they have made a decision to not connect the FEX then yes they are refusing to sell the product in the area, I dont see how it could be interpreted in any other way unless you have a vested interest in defending the industrial player.  This decision might change, in which case I will change what I report, but as of this moment it is what it is, they are not selling CF FTTP in my CF area, and there is nothing wrong with informing the community of that.



I accept I am not responding on your exact point though which is OR FTTP vs CF FTTP.
					


					
Edited by Chrysalis (Fri 31-May-24 01:42:16)

				

			
						
			

			
			

					
		

	

	
	

		

			
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