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Standard User jabuzzard
(experienced) Mon 03-Jun-24 13:47:38
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)


[re: Bobby_Valentino] [link to this post]
 
Not all Altnet's are cheaper than ISP's offering FTTP vi BT Wholesale. For example the Altnet serving my area (GoFibre) are noticeably more expensive especially if you don't want CGNAT.
Standard User daern
(regular) Mon 03-Jun-24 14:56:06
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
Not all Altnet's are cheaper than ISP's offering FTTP vi BT Wholesale. For example the Altnet serving my area (GoFibre) are noticeably more expensive especially if you don't want CGNAT.


Indeed. The one serving the houses opposite my parents want something like £60 for what Youfibre will sell me for £30 (indeed, £27 for the first 2 years!)

I'll be honest, I was less worried about cost here than I am about the fact that Openreach completely ignored my street for years until it was finally fibred up earlier this year by an altnet. This is why I remain convinced that, however wasteful it is to have duplicated fibre runs, it's *always* better to have competition at every level - without this, there is no incentive for the existing incumbent network provider to move any quicker than it does now.
Standard User therioman
(knowledge is power) Mon 03-Jun-24 17:23:13
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)


[re: Bobby_Valentino] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Bobby_Valentino:
How are Altnet ISP's able to offer relatively cheaper FTTP internet vs BT Wholesale based ISP's ... without the midyear RPI increases etc...?


By making massive losses in the hope of getting enough customers to be valuable to be sold. The majority of altnets are not in the 'profit making' stage - but the 'customer acquisition' phase.


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Standard User j0hn83
(knowledge is power) Tue 04-Jun-24 09:43:15
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
But for whatever reason they have made a decision to not connect the FEX then yes they are refusing to sell the product in the area, I dont see how it could be interpreted in any other way unless you have a vested interest in defending the industrial player.


That's a ridiculous arguement....

Are you refusing to chop your balls off and call yourself Shirley or are you just choosing not to?

There's a difference between choosing not to do something and refusing to do something.

Zen don't have the infrastructure/connections necessary on your FEX. They have chosen not to make that investment at that time or they may be waiting for Cityfibre to install something. They aren't refusing to sell anything.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Tue 04-Jun-24 22:30:31
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
But for whatever reason they have made a decision to not connect the FEX then yes they are refusing to sell the product in the area, I dont see how it could be interpreted in any other way unless you have a vested interest in defending the industrial player.


That's a ridiculous arguement....

Are you refusing to chop your balls off and call yourself Shirley or are you just choosing not to?

There's a difference between choosing not to do something and refusing to do something.

Zen don't have the infrastructure/connections necessary on your FEX. They have chosen not to make that investment at that time or they may be waiting for Cityfibre to install something. They aren't refusing to sell anything.


Choosing to not do something and refusing to do something are exactly the same thing. If I have chosen to not do something then I have refused to do it.

Whilst I accept your point there may be some delay of getting connected directed locally, they have still chosen not to provide a service over the CF national network in the mean time which is currently connected. This will be my last reply to you in this thread as well, I get no fun in this and its already drifted away from the topic.

Edited by Chrysalis (Wed 05-Jun-24 08:30:28)

Standard User gorebrush
(regular) Wed 05-Jun-24 09:27:36
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)


[re: daern] [link to this post]
 
I am in agreement - this happened in my street.

I was told various things by Openreach from ”no longer in plan” to “October 2025” to “July 2025”.

Earlier this year I then out of the blue received a bizarre email confirming I was back in their plans (even though at this stage I was told we WERE already in plans after I asked my MP to find out) and within a month I was able to order Openreach FTTP and indeed, now sat on AAISP 1Gbps as we speak.

Funny then how only a few months previous Nexfibre built the area and OR had no interest in my street because I think the duct infrastructure was off putting for them.

Now I can order 2Gbps symmetric from VM if I wished. Before February i was using Starlink to get decent speed!
Standard User Dassa
(learned) Wed 05-Jun-24 10:08:04
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Hi.
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
But for whatever reason they have made a decision to not connect the FEX then yes they are refusing to sell the product in the area, I dont see how it could be interpreted in any other way unless you have a vested interest in defending the industrial player.


That's a ridiculous arguement....

Are you refusing to chop your balls off and call yourself Shirley or are you just choosing not to?

There's a difference between choosing not to do something and refusing to do something.

Zen don't have the infrastructure/connections necessary on your FEX. They have chosen not to make that investment at that time or they may be waiting for Cityfibre to install something. They aren't refusing to sell anything.


Choosing to not do something and refusing to do something are exactly the same thing. If I have chosen to not do something then I have refused to do it.

Whilst I accept your point there may be some delay of getting connected directed locally, they have still chosen not to provide a service over the CF national network in the mean time which is currently connected. This will be my last reply to you in this thread as well, I get no fun in this and its already drifted away from the topic.
Usually the word refuse is only used where someone has been asked to carry out an action. For example, I don't think that you would consider murder to be a good idea but you have so far refused to condemn it, to use your somewhat unusual usage of the word.

Refuse also has (rightly or wrongly) some connotations of unreasonableness in some peoples' minds (a quick poll says about half of people I've spoken to since reading your post see using the word "refused" as indicative that someone has been unreasonable so this is not universal). For example, it might be sensible to use the word refuse to refer to a supermarket choosing not to sell you milk but less sensible when referring to the same supermarket deciding not to come and mow your lawn. I don't have a firm view on this connotation but your usage does give the impression that you are attempting to infer that Zen is being unreasonable.

In this case, unless you have asked a suitably senior member of Zen staff (someone who actually has the authority to decide to serve the area in question) then I suspect that most people wouldn't use the word refuse. Of course, there may be a customer service issue in that your question isn't reaching a suitably senior member of staff, but that is incompetence, or a refusal to engage with you, not a refusal to serve the area.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 05-Jun-24 10:31:32
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)


[re: Dassa] [link to this post]
 
For your supermarket analogy I think something slightly different could work in context.

The supermarket may have milk on the shelves. If you pick up a bottle and take it to the check out but they won't sell it to you then they are refusing you. If the supermarket decide they are no longer going to sell milk then they are choosing not to stock it. One is a positive decision to tell you that you can't have it. The other is a choice not to supply it to anyone.

For this specific case Zen might say they won't supply to a property even though they have the infrastructure in place - in that case they are refusing the person (not sure that happens often). However, Zen have made a choice at present not to put the infrastructure in place (and I am sure there could be any number of reasons why).
Standard User daern
(regular) Wed 05-Jun-24 10:36:24
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)


[re: gorebrush] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by gorebrush:
Funny then how only a few months previous Nexfibre built the area and OR had no interest in my street because I think the duct infrastructure was off putting for them.

Mmm, quite. Round here, OR seemed far more intent in chasing VM's dig around the town, doubling-up FTTP capability, rather than looking at those areas than had zero coverage. It is somewhat annoying to see poles overloaded with kit from three or even four fibre providers when some areas still have none. Moreso when I've been able to watch the process of our altnet deployment and see that there's nothing that tricky - what little groundworks they had to do to work around the dodgy ducts was done in a couple of days in my street. I'd be extremely surprised not to see OR chasing them up the street before the end of the year, but the ship has sailed for me now and I'd doubt I'll be in any hurry to return to GPON when it's finally offered.
Standard User Alucidnation
(committed) Tue 11-Jun-24 06:53:01
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Re: Altnet vs BT Wholesale ISP's (pricing)


[re: daern] [link to this post]
 
We have just signed to an Alt-net as there are no openreach plans to fibre up, for a 1Gb/300 connection for £29/month fixed.

Happy with that!
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