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"contractor to cancel it because it's too difficult. "
More than likely H&S, company policy, and not because it is too difficult.
Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk, upgraded to fibre 40/10
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"contractor to cancel it because it's too difficult. "
More than likely H&S, company policy, and not because it is too difficult.
Very likely, but the OP shouldn't give up.
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I offered to go in the loft and run the cables through for him, as the master socket/ONT location is on the side of the loft hatch. MJ Quin engineer again refused on the grounds that it would look like he's been in the loft.
That's pretty rubbish. I know it's not Openreach, but apparently the guys working for Youfibre (who use OR PIA) need to follow OR's rules to the letter or they'll lose their permit to work. My own fibre went through a tree between the pole and my house, so that automatically demanded a second engineer to stand on the ground while the other engineer was up in the cherry-picker. He said that he'd have been fine to do it but that it was "more than his job's worth in case an OR engineer saw him", so he called his supervisor who drove across the country that morning so they could complete my install in the afternoon.
Coming back to lofts, my engineer was adamant that they "are not allowed to enter lofts and under-floor voids". Now I guess there must be a point where a loft stops being a loft and becomes a room, and I'm sure that there's a load of regulations about this, but he did specifically say "no lofts" so there's clearly some sort of restriction here, but as my install went nowhere near my own loft, we didn't discuss whether this covered fully-boarded lofts or not. He did mention that plenty of OR engineers use their own judgement and probably do enter both, but as a third-party they are held to rather stricter standards.
My own install required the fibre to go about 10m through the underfloor void to where the existing BT master socket is (and where I wanted the fibre to terminate). He explained that he was simply not allowed to do this, but had absolutely no objections to me doing it myself, so we chatted about what needed to go where, he left me 20m of fibre and promised to return later when his supervisor arrived to hold the bottom of the metaphorical ladder. I drilled the hole through the front wall myself, ran the fibre under the floor, drilled the appropriate hole to get it back up through the floor and clipped everything neatly into place with a nice coil left under the floor in case I ever want to move things around. Both of us were very happy about this arrangement - he avoided the whole customer-end part of the install (which is, by all accounts, the worst bit of the job), and I got my fibre exactly where I wanted it.
Sorry to say it, but sounds to me like your engineer was a bit of a prat.
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He wasn't being a prat. It isn't worth his or her job.
It's a sackable offence for an OR employee or subcontractor if they break health & safety rules to do an install.
They are much more concerned about installs being done safely than they are about it being neat or efficient.
Audits of installs that break h&s will result in disciplinary action.
It is impossible to properly/safely commission/activate an ONT in an unboarded loft.
Some might bend rules slightly too please a customer. Thank them for that.
Some might not be willing to risk their job. Don't blame them.
Subcontractors are bad from dropping complex jobs in the blink of an eye as they are paid per job. It doesn't look good and they are sometimes rightly criticised.
It isn't fair to expect them to do something that can risk their employment though.
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Although it’s true an Alt Net , if using PIA is expected to observe the same rules as Openreach as far as cable height over roads , dropwires in line of routre ( DILOR ) etc , as far as entering a loft , boarded or not , that decision has absolutely nothing to do with OR ,that’s up to the Alt Net .
If an Alt Net uses ‘OR’ as an excuse for non entry , that’s what it is , an excuse, OR do restrict their own people and their contractors accessing areas such as that , but couldn’t give a toss if competitors do or don’t …..a dropwire once attached to the consumer property at an appropriate height , OR are not interested from that point onwards , why on earth would they be , if a Alt Net wants to dangle from the guttering by their fingertips, or enter lofts , or fling a cable over the roof ridge , OR wouldn’t do it , but couldn’t give a **** if the competition do .
The principle is pretty simple, Alt Nets are not allowed to endanger others if using overhead PIA , ( low wires , unacceptable load on a pole etc ) but once within the Alt Net customers property, they cannot affect anything in a public area or anyone else using the same OR asset , so have no need to refer to OR standards .
Edited by Iniltous (Tue 16-Jul-24 15:49:16)
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I only mentioned OR, in a response to a comment about an OR install, in a thread about OR installs.
I mentioned nothing about any Alt-Net.
I was simply trying to point out that OR take h&s extremely serious and unbiased lofts are a no no.
Comment makes sense though. After the drop wire anchor point an Alt-Net install should have nothing to do with OR.
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Health and Safety rules over many years have been misrepresented to justify not doing something by many customer facing workers, I suspect there are not too many who have a clear conscience.
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Thanks for the replies guys.
Kind of stuck at the moment.
After the engineer said fttp was a no, and advised me to stay on copper. My current ISP (Now Broadband) with whom I have VDSL broadband with, won't allow me to renew/start a new contract with them on copper. They say I need to delete my account and create a new account on full fibre(fttp) or pay £40 a month as my 12 month contract is ending.
So jumping from £21 a month to £40 a month, because all new packages are fttp when I can't get fttp, because the mj Quinn engineer won't install.
Tried to speak to customer services, in the now broadband call centre (India) refused to put me through to customer services or complaints.
Over an hour on the phone going round in circles, trying to tell them I can't have a fttp install.
Had no other option but to cancel the broadband to stop them billing me at the higher rate.
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I wish I did some research before ordering fttp, then I would of seen this topic.
Ordered fttp on the 21st June, Install was due 12th July.
Master socket is in the loft, with network cables going off to different rooms, and the double socket for power.
MJ Quin subcontractor turned up to install this morning, said he's not going in the loft because it's not fully boarded. (I rarely go in the loft, only partially boarded).
I offered to go in the loft and run the cables through for him, as the master socket/ONT location is on the side of the loft hatch. MJ Quin engineer again refused on the grounds that it would look like he's been in the loft.
He advised he wanted to put it on the front wall of the house, but I don't have room there, TV furniture is in the way and unavailable spare sockets, and I would have move all the network cables as well.
His final advise was to stay on copper, and pstn/copper switch off not happening to 2030. So cancelled fttp install.
My answer is simple, but to the point which you might not like.
Pick a more conveniant spot for the installer, and then just work with it.
You could still keep your hub in the loft, you just would have to route one single cable from the ONT up to the loft yourself.
So rebook it and make it easier for the installer that shows up.
Edited by Chrysalis (Wed 17-Jul-24 19:28:53)
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I wish I did some research before ordering fttp, then I would of seen this topic.
Ordered fttp on the 21st June, Install was due 12th July.
Master socket is in the loft, with network cables going off to different rooms, and the double socket for power.
MJ Quin subcontractor turned up to install this morning, said he's not going in the loft because it's not fully boarded. (I rarely go in the loft, only partially boarded).
I offered to go in the loft and run the cables through for him, as the master socket/ONT location is on the side of the loft hatch. MJ Quin engineer again refused on the grounds that it would look like he's been in the loft.
He advised he wanted to put it on the front wall of the house, but I don't have room there, TV furniture is in the way and unavailable spare sockets, and I would have move all the network cables as well.
His final advise was to stay on copper, and pstn/copper switch off not happening to 2030. So cancelled fttp install.
My answer is simple, but to the point which you might not like.
Pick a more conveniant spot for the installer, and then just work with it.
You could still keep your hub in the loft, you just would have to route one single cable from the ONT up to the loft yourself.
So rebook it and make it easier for the installer that shows up.
Surely you can work with the install a little given the benefits of having FTTP over copper?
MJ Quinn were the guys who did my install, I asked them if they could drill outside to into the house given our outside rendor was fairly new and I didnt want it to blow off, even if the CSP is quite large and would probably cover it, they were very nervous about doing it because its not part of their SOP. This is no where near as big a deal as installing into an attic. They are responsible for that part of the install, they have to be careful.
I myself have all my network equipment in the attic, temps do get hot in the hot summers sometimes but I have some monitoring up there, usually its 10C hotter in there then it is outside but once the sun goes down it cools quickly back to more or less the outside temp plus a few degrees rising from the house. Most operating temps can handle 55C, I dont imagine ill often see over 40 though. The Nokia ONT Op temps are up to 45C, much less than your average switch. Installing the ONT up there would likely be fine if we were paying for it and installing it, unfortunately we do not own this part though.
Anyway, the reason I quoted Chrysalis is because they are absolutely right, the ONT is tiny and just needs one outlet, if its the Nokia ONT 2.5Gb its a tiny box on the wall, then just run an ethernet from there all the way to the attic, potentially via an outside wall, its what ive done. Nice white UV protected cable to match the render, I'm happy, MJ Quinn are and so is the lady.
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