In reply to a post by candlerb:

I'd say the opposite. In an exchange area with high VM take up, rolling out FTTP gives OR an opportunity to capture back a large number of customers, for a big increase in revenue and immediate return on investment.

This is unquestionably what OR do, but you do get some perverse incentives that fall out of this. The biggest being that an area that is only served by copper has almost no incentive for OR to go in and upgrade it, forcing it to the bottom of the pile (especially if it's in any way tricky to deploy).

Round here, there's been a mad race with OR almost chasing VM down streets as they've been installing cable so they don't lose too many customers and likewise with altnet provision, with the result that some streets might have as many as four different *physical provision* FTTP options (OR, VM and a couple of altnets) while three streets over there might be only a single, legacy copper option available because VM decided not to cable it, and thus OR adopted a "we're number one so why try harder?" approach, and shoved them to the bottom of the pile.

I get it from a purely commercial point of view, but this is why OR, as inheritor of a nationwide infrastructure, does need to have different rules applied to it than other operators building from scratch.

Inheritor of a nationwide infrastructure, so not a penny was paid by the shareholders ( FWIW , the share price in 1984 , 40 years ago ) was £1.30 , today it’s around £1.40 and that’s after 40% increase in recent months ) plus what about ‘infrastructure’ built in the last 40 years in what way coukd that be described as inherited, your description of what an inheritance is seems at odds with the dictionary definition of it .

Edited by Iniltous (Fri 01-Nov-24 14:23:43)

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

Inheritor of a nationwide infrastructure, so not a penny was paid by the shareholders ( FWIW , the share price in 1984 , 40 years ago ) was £1.30 , today it’s around £1.40 and that’s after 40% increase in recent months ) plus what about ‘infrastructure’ built in the last 40 years in what way coukd that be described as inherited, your description of what an inheritance is seems at odds with the dictionary definition of it .

Well, the OR physical infrastructure in my street hasn't changed one iota in 40 years and, however you put it, OR have been selling services based on an inherited last-mile infrastructure for most of that time. Only relatively recently have they had to start investing into that last-mile infrastructure by government edict and commercial pressure.

And, of course, OR have for most of that time been just an arm of BT, holding a strong monopoly position in the country.

Edited by daern (Fri 01-Nov-24 14:39:39)

Their rollout seems to suggest otherwise, they rolling out in rural areas with no VM presence, and areas they already have sewn up, whilst my area has FTTP and is dominated by VM and has no OR plans. My exchange is metro as well with no plans to close it. I have also seen reports from others in very high VM take up areas where OR is skipping the exchange.

Kind of funny as I got told, once CityFibre did the area, OR would be there quickly, nope. Meanwhile EE keep trying to sell me VDSL.

VM wont be keen on wholesale, I think on either mustang or nexfibre as it creates a headache for them, however if they dont adapt they will just keep losing customers, so I think it will come, just not quickly. Unless you get a retention deal their standard pricing is ridiculous.

Edited by Chrysalis (Fri 01-Nov-24 16:38:37)

In what universe is buying something ( at market value , which ultimately has proved to be a terrible investment ) an inheritance ?, are people living in ex council houses ( which were sold at a discount ) living in inherited properties ? .

How many houses , retail parks , enterprise parks , etc have been constructed in the last 40 years that have Openreach infrastructure serving them , , was that infrastructure also inherited or built after privatisation.

Inheritance isn’t a matter of opinion, where you and I can have an opinion, it’s a matter of fact , and the fact is you are wrong to say the existing infrastructure was inherited by BT/Openreach , their shareholders were not gifted it , they were sold the assets by the Government of the day , how can something paid for by shareholders be an inheritance ? you may have an opinion that the assets were sold too cheaply, but the current share price would suggest that’s a fallacy.

Edited by Iniltous (Fri 01-Nov-24 19:49:56)

Ummm are you replying to me? I never said anything about inherited infrastructure. Sorry I think was daern, ignore this post.

Edited by Chrysalis (Fri 01-Nov-24 16:55:56)

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

the current share price would suggest that’s a fallacy.

Although to be fair, the share price has been much, much higher in the past (£10 in Jan 2000, and £5 in Nov 2015)