In reply to a post by Iniltous:

I did point out this ‘subversive’ way of taking a number associated with an area , into a different geographical area , something mass market providers of scale can’t or don’t do, they presumably are required to maintain the policy of keeping the link between the telephone number and area of the country that the number is associated with , and don’t allow that to be subverted , they maintain the valuable historical link between the phone number and area not least as it’s useful to the emergency services.

VoIP providers either through some legal loophole excluding them from this policy, or them simply having a laissez faire attitude toward this and Ofcom lacking the testicular fortitude to do anything about it ,offer this ‘back door’ route to maintaining a number ‘out of area’….personally I don’t see this repeated OFCOM trait of having one rule for some and a different rule for others as a positive, in my opinion it simply demonstrates the ineptitude of that organisation, however if someone can take advantage of this back door route as it’s offered by seemingly legal means that’s entirely up to them…as domestic landline telephony becomes somewhat irrelevant , I dare say the juice isn’t worth the squeeze when it comes to enforcement if these VoIP providers are doing something overtly wrong

Please show me where in the Ofcom regulations it is against the regulations to allow a geographic number to be ported and utilised outside of the original / associated service area?

you show me in the regulations where it’s allowed , the fact that major suppliers don’t offer it suggests it’s not something encouraged , if it were wouldn’t at least some providers offer it (excluding the traditional VoIP brigade )

Edited by Iniltous (Thu 11-Sep-25 09:45:13)

Haha. Oh sorry I'm not into playing silly games like this.

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

you show me in the regulations where it’s allowed , the fact that major suppliers don’t offer it suggests it’s not something encouraged , if it were wouldn’t at least some providers offer it (excluding the traditional VoIP brigade )

Don't you think smaller players would have been reprimanded by Ofcom if they were breaching regulations?

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/docume... Section 1 says it is permitted. Section 3.3 identifies the qualifying conditions in B3.1.1 of the Numbering Plan.

Would you like gravy with your pie?

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/docume...

Read the overview and ‘what we decided in brief’ seems pretty conclusive to me .
Presumably your juvenile ‘gravy’ remark is some sort of ‘you’ve been served’ reference…very funny if you are a teenager

Edited by Iniltous (Thu 11-Sep-25 10:24:36)

Hi,

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/docume...

Read the overview and ‘what we decided in brief’ seems pretty conclusive to me .
Presumably your juvenile ‘gravy’ remark is some sort of ‘you’ve been served’ reference…very funny if you are a teenager

To quote the document: "These rules permit out-of-area use of geographic numbers which we consider provides an important degree of flexibility in number use for people and businesses."

That is a pretty unambiguous statement that out of area numbering is permitted and if there was any uncertainty then, as others have pointed out, section B3.3.1 further clarifies the position that out of area codes are permitted.

I cannot see how any reasonable reading would reach a conclusion that out of area number is not permitted.

I suspect the pie you should be contemplating is of the humble variety.

Edited by Dassa (Thu 11-Sep-25 12:30:51)

‘We are keeping the existing rules on geographic numbering which allocate the first few digits of a landline phone number to an area (the area code) and provide location significance’
That is also a pretty unambiguous statement, perhaps the OP will return when they have moved to a different part of the country and share if VF (as they intend to keep the same provider) enabled them to keep their existing number including the STD code once they have moved or not , if the OP gets VF to provide them with the same number they currently have in a different town or city to where they currently reside I’ll happily eat humble pie ,

…..I’ll concede that any statement by me that VoIP providers are breaking rules may be a little overblown , but the Ofcom document is somewhat contradictory, STD codes associated with a location is either a useful geographical association or it’s not useful , if it’s the case that flexibility to move numbers around the country is good but keeping the geographical link is also good , then which takes preference, you have your opinion on which is better and I’ll keep my opinion on which is better,.

Presumably VoIP providers don’t see a value in a geographical link to the area code , whereas traditional providers do hence the apparent difference in their approach, if both are ‘legal’ …I dare the emergency services love getting 999 calls from apparently one area and but despatched to somewhere seemingly different.

Edited by Iniltous (Thu 11-Sep-25 14:12:57)

I think the geographical link had become tenuous from the number itself anyway.

Within a single area (ie 01234) there are thousands of phone numbers and premises. For years you have been able to move numbers between houses within an area - so the other 6 digits have had no bearing on where you are within the geographic area.

On that basis just knowing the area code is useless for pinpointing where someone is. You need a database that links the full number with the actual location. And if you have a database that does that then what does it matter if you take the area code and the 6 digit number with you when you move out of area - the only way the emergency services are going to find you is by knowing the actual location the full number is at.

The area covered by my local area code is approximately 25Km x 25Km. That is a pretty big haystack to find a needle unless you have a location database for every full number.

Hi,

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

‘We are keeping the existing rules on geographic numbering which allocate the first few digits of a landline phone number to an area (the area code) and provide location significance’
That is also a pretty unambiguous statement, perhaps the OP will return when they have moved to a different part of the country and share if VF (as they intend to keep the same provider) enabled them to keep their existing number including the STD code once they have moved or not , if the OP gets VF to provide them with the same number they currently have in a different town or city to where they currently reside I’ll happily eat humble pie ,

I take that as a statement that Ofcom is retaining the concept of area codes rather than, for example, abolishing new allocations in the 01 and 02 ranges and requiring all new numbers to be allocated in the 03 range.

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

…..I’ll concede that any statement by me that VoIP providers are breaking rules may be a little overblown , but the Ofcom document is somewhat contradictory, STD codes associated with a location is either a useful geographical association or it’s not useful , if it’s the case that flexibility to move numbers around the country is good but keeping the geographical link is also good , then which takes preference, you have your opinion on which is better and I’ll keep my opinion on which is better,.

It is useful for those who want to deem it to be useful. I suspect that Ofcom chooses not to have an opinion on what useful means, especially as VOIP makes practical enforcement of some opinions impossible.

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

Presumably VoIP providers don’t see a value in a geographical link to the area code , whereas traditional providers do hence the apparent difference in their approach, if both are ‘legal’ …I dare the emergency services love getting 999 calls from apparently one area and but despatched to somewhere seemingly different.

VOIP providers are required to retain records linking the number to an address and automatically provide that data in the event of an emergency call being made. Obviously that is unhelpful if the end customer chooses not to use the number in a way that links it to an address.

I have an "out of area" number on one of my VoIP connections. Three have my local area code but the fourth is certainly not.