In reply to a post by markdixon:

2 The speed being less than half that is was before

Only for those that were on LLU but their exchange is only 20CN.

If I got moved off ADSL2+ and onto IPStream, Id be seriously [censored] off, and theres no way I'd accept it. Its pretty disgraceful that Orange have even considered doing it - especially considering that the ADSL2+ equipment is still there I presume. At a minimum they should have offered (via letter) all affected customers (which I presume isn't a massive number) the chance to leave their contracts early if they wished. Have you tried ringing customer services about it? They aren't too bad in my experience, and Id be surprised if they didn't let you leave if you explained. If they don't want to play ball, then a small claims court letter regarding unfair terms would result in a speedy resolution I would have thought!

Btw I agree with your stance about writing to the CEO- its total waste of time - it just adds another step to it being given to the customer complaints dept. Do people seriously think that the Directors of these companies ever actually see these complaints?

Same thing happened to me, was syncing at 10mbit, since there isnt 21CN at my exchange, I got put on IPstream, so I moved straight away.

Leaving Orange isn't a problem. My 18 months was up ages ago but there are no other IPS's available to me that aren't just BTW re-sellers with ridiculous caps on their monthly limits. I enjoyed downloading whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted, playing online and watching [censored] on Youtube, BBC iPlayer, 4OD and ITV Player, all at the fantastic speed of 20Mbit.
I have never had to call cust. services because the service was rock steady and always worked.
So if I leave Orange I wont have anywhere to go that offers a product the same...

But, anyone had any dealings with this new Digital Region? Specifically Ripwire? I can get 40Mbit broadband from them aparently for £25 a month on an 18 month contract.

Orange is now just another BTW reseller. I have not had an amended FUP (not that I ever got a FUP from them before) despite asking for one (another complaint to bring up with CISAS). Forget trying to use YouTube, play games on Facebook, BBC iPlayer or any other streaming activity during peak times as the service is just about good enough for email (if the excuse for a router that Orange supplied does not randomly drop connection). If you are on IPStream then you will have exactly what any other reseller has and that is a seriously reduced service for the same cost as you were paying before. As I commented earlier I have never heard from anyone who experienced higher download and upload speeds when connected to 21CN as there still seems to be a performance hit compared to LLU. It seems that rather than comply with the Government promise to have us all on super-fast broadband BT have decided to go backwards by offering an inferior service, I might just have to dig out that old US Robotics V56 modem as the way Orange and BT are acting my broadband will be just as bad as dial up was.

"Orange is now just another BTW reseller"

Oh no they are not, if by BTW reseller, you mean firms like Zen, IDNet, Entanet and others.

Orange is now the same as Post Office and Vodafone who buy a white label service from BT Wholesale, i.e. BT Wholesale run the show, rather than with the Zen's etc who have more control over backhaul. BT Wholesale may actually answer the phone as Orange on support queries too now.

The aim of Orange is to turn off their LLU network with a view to saving money.

Complaining that you've gone from LLU to WBC or IPStream Max will get you nowhere, unless the result of this is a significant change in the service level, e.g. 19Meg down to a capped 8Meg, at which point you should be able to say contract is void.

To say all BT Wholesale based services are the same is incorrect, an ISP has a big influence on factors, including getting target margins and interleave settings change to get the most from a line. Also the amount of backhaul they buy will govern peak time behaviour.

Many apologies, I was indeed referring to white label services. I had the same problem with Sky who promised me the world to get me to sign up but then could not supply what they promised. A quick MAC code later and I went to Orange who promised me that things would be better and quoted me a line speed of 3Mbps, this has now dropped well below that mark. My point was that Orange should not be allowed to bill this as an "Improvement" and should not be able to get away with treating its customers in such an underhand and shoddy manner. Orange have refused to apologise, have not fixed my router problems and only seem interested in issuing me with a MAC code to get me to go away. I, on the other hand want answers to the questions that I have posed them, if Orange will not answer then perhaps WHICH? or Watchdog could ask the same questions on a more public forum and then maybe Orange would sit up and take notice. All I want is my service improved back to what I was getting before, Orange is now adamant that my line cant support anything faster than 2Mbps which is utter nonsense as proven by the links I have given them, BT have simply limited my line for no good reason yet Orange seem unable or unwilling to do anything about this. Had Orange dropped the price of their package accordingly then I would not feel the need to complain as much but when they demand the same amount for a far inferior service I feel that they are extracting the urine just a bit. All I want is a bit of compensation, a router that is as described and that works, unlike their current offering which is a DGN1000.

I think that Orange assumed that a reduction from their old standard SNRM of 10db to the BT standard 6db would lead to an improvement. That's OK, but an automated DLM needs some human intervention, it's not God. Unfortunately, I can only conclude from their behaviour across Orange's activities, that the management of the hived-off UK Orange have no understanding of quality of service, words which are not in their vocabulary.

Orange's staff do what they can and I don't believe are moronic, but are stuffed as much as the customers by the management's absolute hostility to spending time or money on QoS issues. They live in a timewarp believing customers are sheep, herded in by so-called clever marketing, that is, catchy phrases: you'll all believe that Orange are "no tricks, all treats" because they smilingly tell you so, and you believe that they are committed to the best customer service, and never doubt it for a moment when they don't answer the phone for 45 minutes! Any one remember the tale of the emperor who had no clothes?

You have to play Orange at their own game, and if you can screw them more than they screw you, all well and good, well sort of. I've had phone rental, broadband (more or less) and free calls for £15pm for over 4 years. My phone line has problems maintaining the 6Mbps I know its capable of once Oranges/BTs DLM intervened and seems to get stuck, but still I've been suckered in to ordering Plusnet FTTC (seems the cheapest again) now it's just become available at the cab, which they estimate at 25Mbps download with an amazing quoted errror in the estimate of +/- 1Mbps. Sounds too good to be true on my line but hey I'm with Orange so I believe in fairytales!

EDIT: After several years experience, my rule of thumb with the new Orange is to think of them as the old British Leyland cars: they have the occasional good idea and could be brilliant, but not often; and always behind the curve. And for service you'll get what you're given.

Edited by deleted (Sat 02-Jul-11 10:37:09)

In reply to a post by smurf46:

I think that Orange assumed that a reduction from their old standard SNRM of 10db to the BT standard 6db would lead to an improvement.

Have you any evidence of that 6dB on Orange? They're holding me at 12

Personal experience: mine was initially 11 on the transfer to WBC and reduced over the training period and then hovered between 5.8-6 for the next six weeks or so. Then, unfortunately, I rebooted the router and it was back to 11 and is more slowly reducing, currently has got down to 8 after several weeks. (Apart from my accidental reboot, the connection is stable. On Orange LLU I was always around 10, though the speed was steadily reduced after each occasional PPP server fault - and never picked up - to less than half of what WBC manages even with an 11db SNRM).

On an att of 48-50, 10/11db gives me 4.5Mbps sync rate on WBC (previously went down from 5 Mbps to 4Mbps then stuck at 2Mbps on Orange LLU); 6dB gives a more satisfactory sync rate of 5.5-6Mbps.

Edited by deleted (Sat 02-Jul-11 13:38:32)