Nice idea of using the Bright Box as an access point that's a good one and I might try that but I don't trust it...

Tonight I logged into the bright box only to find my connection down to 5376Kbps (lowest for a long while) and the noise margin has gone up to 9db. I've also notice that the line attenuation has changed and has gone up. It is going between 43.5db and 44db at the moment, it had previously always been at 43 on the Bright Box.

After reading the log I've noticed that since 10pm the previous evening it has lost the line (or just re-synced) 9 times. I looked at the log and having just logged in at 8:39 the log says I have logged in at 10:39. It says the line has been up and running for 3 hours 47 minutes, but that would mean been connected long before it's last re-sync. Why the 2 hours difference? The router has not been reset/turned off or anything. Is it possible it taken it's time from an online server that is currently incorrect?

I understand that if there has been a major hitch then the noise margin is often set high and takes a while to come back down. Either way it is constantly re-syncing and the line stat that pretty much stays the same regardless (attenuation) is going up.

I'm planning to go into the local Orange shop later this week on my day off and talk to them about it as Orange tech support is pointless waste of time. I'll see if I can speak to someone there (I can understand) who might be able to get hold of someone that understands the problem. The Bright Box will be a paperweight from now on and will not be reconnected, it's a pile of...

In reply to a post by Kail:

I looked at the log and having just logged in at 8:39 the log says I have logged in at 10:39.

Yes, my log is +8 hours ahead of BST, even tho' Time Settings say it's set to GMT and using a time server, but both of these are unchangeable. Looks like Time Settings are useless.

I notice that if you keep disabling and enabling Time Settings you can keep advancing time by 1 hour (into next day LOL!). But is it worth it?

I went in to Orange shop and they rung the very same call centre. Apparently they don't have anywhere else to call and they don't deal with broadband at all in the shop. Although they sell it as I signed up in the same shop.

He listened to everything I said and suggested that I check the phone for line noise, then call back if there was a problem. So when I got home I put a corded phone in the test socket and dialed my mum. Nothing much to hear, apart from my mum that is. I then dialed the BT quiet line test. Unlike a similar test a year or 2 back which was half quiet and then half pops and clicks. Todays test was mostly quiet apart from a few pops and clicks in the middle of it. I'm not sure how significant that is.

So I called Orange support again. The women I spoke to went through everything and suggested a few things that I had already done. She accepted what I said unlike the others I talked to last week. In the end after hearing that the Netgear managed the line OK, she opted to send a new router as it does seem the Bright Box is not working very well. Although her boss needs to confirm it first and he was not around at the time. I'll find out tomorrow if I ring back to confirm or in 6 days if I wait for the post.

The people I spoke to today were better to deal with and at least I could understand them. Phew!

Another update...

As Orange were supposed to be sending me another router, while I waited I switched back to my DG834 as it was stable and worked. I got a call (left message) from Orange the next day, saying they had tested the line again and it was not the router but in fact the line. I called them that night to tell them it was my Netgear on the line and not the faulty Bright Box. They said they would arrange a call back the next day and the result is that they sent out a Netgear DGN1000SP (Orange branded DGN1000). However I received in the post a jiffy bag with a Netgear power supply and a letter stating they hoped this would solve my problem... ???? The call centre assured me that this was normal and the router should arrive via courier the same day. It did arrive and it was in a bashed box that contained a power supply. The next call centre worker I talked to had no idea why I had a spare power supply sent out.

I connected it up and the next day Orange called back as arranged. It had not re connected at all and was stable like my Netgear, except not like my Netgear...

I was able to run routerstats on the provided DGN1000SP and it displayed a significant difference. For a about a week now the exchange seems to have set a high noise margin. The the line's noise margin has hung at the 8-9db mark and sunk to about 2-3db mark at night. Instead of the 6db mark and sinking to 0db at night. My Netgear DG834 v2 displayed a noise margin graph on routerstats that jumped from 8db to a figure of 2-6db and back again, carving a zigzag across the screen. Mostly at 8db but at least a 3rd of the time well below that.

That happened regularly but the graph the new DGN1000SP router produces is hanging around the 8db mark, going up and down between 7-9db. In fact it seems incredibly stable compared to the DG834 v2. The only thing is that it is connecting at 5600Kbps and after the only reset I have conducted (to kill a continuously flashing WPS light) it has connected at 5376Kbps. This brings me to my next problem.

Since the exchange has imposed the high noise margin (Orange have confirmed that it must the the exchange as they have not done it) every time one of the routers I have used has re-synced, it has synced lower than before, not upwards. This has just happened as I've mentioned with the DGN1000SP when the WPS light would not stop flashing and a reboot was the only option I had left. It also happened with the DG834 v2 and it was syned downwards. The Bright Box that would not stay connected for very long, had gone from about 5952Kbps to about 4896Kbps just before I ditched it for the last time with Orange's approval. Should I be concerned about the downward march of my connection or is it simply a symptom of what the exchange has done?

The ISP offerings carry the widely touted king of the hill the Broadcom chips, as in the Bright Box and my old BT Hub2. They were either very average or in the case of the Bright Box shockingly poor. The texas instruments TI-AR7 chip seems to have done pretty well in my DG834 v2, though I suspect the Netgear firmware has had it's say. Constantly sliding sync rate aside, the Netgear DGN1000SP (SP model carries Orange firmware), Infineon/sercomm (?) offering seems to be holding things as they should be at the moment. Wireless is a bit slow

Orange suggested it could be the equipment and the way it connects that was causing the Bright Box to fail. They said my Netgear DG834 connects in a different way to the Bright Box and the new Netgear should help identify problem. With the DGN1000SP appearing to work Orange have now said that if this continues to works then it is problem solved. I suppose so. My concern at the moment is how long will it take for the noise margin to go back down. If this router continues as it has and holds the line with very little noise margin change, how long should I have to wait?

As I type this the sun has long gone and the noise margin has only dropped from 8.8db to 8db. Infineon rules!... maybe, we will see.

In reply to a post by Kail:

Since the exchange has imposed the high noise margin (Orange have confirmed that it must the the exchange as they have not done it)

Had an Openreach eng round today to look into a stuck high NM, 12 dB, and low Sync, 15 Meg, after an episode of constant discons over the 2 Bank Hols days. Prior to that it had run at 20 Meg on a 3 dB NM for a whole year.

He told me that he'd have to report back to Orange who are the only ones to control the settings like NM, not even BTw.

Shortly after I had a call from Orange agreeing to set the NMs @ 3 dB Down/6 dB Up and that I was restarting a 10 day training period. Within minutes I was running at 19 Meg on a 4.5 dB NM.

EDIT: You need to get beyond phone support to the Fault Resolution Team to get anything done.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Fri 08-Jun-12 23:12:01)

Thanks for the info XRaySpeX.

I intend to leave the DGN1000SP connected over the weekend, without reboot or power off, to see if anything changes. I think the noise margin is set at 9db as that is the high point which it does not go above. Current router stats...

System Up Time 18:14:19
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 5376 Kbps 448 Kbps
Line Attenuation 43.2 dB 27.5 dB
Noise Margin 9.1 dB 28.0 dB

ADSL has been up and running for 18:13:46 since the reboot the other day. My IP profile is at 4.5Mbps and speed tests today on the above stats show...

BT speed test, Down=3.94Mbps, Up=0.45Mbps
BT speed test Beta ,Down=4.86Mbps, Up=0.37Mbps (above 4.5?)
Speedtest.net, Down=4.41Mbps, Up=0.38Mbps, Ping=45ms
ThinkBroadband, Down=4.1Mbps, Up=0.4Mbps


So things look to me to be operating normally and there are no constant re-syncs. For a change the noise margin is holding relatively steady (only a 1-2db change over the day) compared to the other routers. I will give them a call Monday/Tuesday next week so the current problem stays live on their system.

Regarding the noise margin. I did mentioned to Orange the other day, that when I went into the Orange shop the previous week the man I was put through to said he would set my router/line to �always on�. Difficult to tell what he was saying as it was a strong Indian accent and he seemed to speak pigeon English at best. What that meant I don't know but the margin has been high since then. Who I talked to the other day did not know what that was or what that person had done if anything. So I guess if I ask to speak to the Fault Resolution Team and I ask if they can look at lowering the margin, they will know what I mean?

By the way, I've checked the orange website and the members centre area and my problem is not listed in the reported faults section. Not sure if that is for voice faults only and broadband is considered separate.

Thanks for the help

You sync is about 1 Meg slow.

You are on ADSL Max and I'm not sure they would reduce the NM on that; I'm on ADSL2+ where the NM can be reduced to 3 dB.

In reply to a post by Kail:

By the way, I've checked the orange website and the members centre area and my problem is not listed in the reported faults section.

They never are!! I'm sure they don't use it.

I did not ring Orange in the end. The noise margin has come down to about 5-6db on it's own and the router re-synced (upwards) at that time to 6272Kbps. It is the only re-sync since it has gone on. RouterStats shows the noise margin holding steady and it sinks no lower than 4.4db during the night. IP Profile is still at 4.5Mbps but I would expect that to follow soon.

I noticed that the noise margin on the DGN1000 flucuates in steps of 0.1db so it draws a fairly steady line across the on screen graph. The DG834 flucuated in steps of 1db and dropped as much as 4db before jumping back up a few moments later. It drew a kind of flat topped zigzag. The DGN1000 seems to be in control and despite the previous problems with the line it is holding good.

Stats...
System Up Time 97:40:29
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 6272 Kbps 448 Kbps
Line Attenuation 43.3 dB 27.5 dB
Noise Margin 5.1 dB 28.0 dB

I guess that is +1 to Orange in the end for a guessing right that it was the Bright Box, that based on the information about my DG834 performance. It has taken a lot of hassle, but it is seriously beginning to look like problem solved. An Infineon based router seems to be the answer for my line.

Thanks to everyone on this thread for all the help and suggestions. Hopfully this thread can be left to sink now.

Spot on! Fingers X'ed it stays that way

In reply to a post by Kail:

I guess that is +1 to Orange in the end for a guessing right that it was the Bright Box

We spotted it 1st. Took them nearly 2 months to get there LOL!