In reply to a post by telnolies:

xray - you are a genius!

Yes it's a master - it has an internal test socket. I haven't tested that yet, mainly because I think I've already proved you are right!

Last night I disconnected everything from the 'original' master socket. Today - we have 1.9mb/s! Not brilliant, not maybe max, but twice what we hever had before and clearly getting there! However, BT speedtest wouldn't test - 'unknown error, contact IP'. My guess, because we still have two master sockets....

Next test was to plug things back in - instantly lost connection. Unplugged them - connection back in a couple of minutes, at about 1.5mb/s. Yep, I think I can see what is going on here now. Hopefully profile will continue to go up as long as I don't use that socket...

I will test each of the two items individually from the 'original' master socket, but my guess is I will get the same result (but that will establish whether either of those, or the splitters they are using, are faulty). If I do, then the issue seems very, very likely to be the one you have highlighted - two master sockets on the same line, and an error by BT when they changed the lines over.

I will update on progress, but I take my hat off to you and am very, very grateful. Problem isn't solved of course yet, but knowing what it is (fingers crossed) means we can get there!

These wiring diagrams for master socket and extension sockets will help you sort your telephone connection wiring.

For the modern digital telephone you now only need connections 2 and 5, the connection number 3 is the bell wire required for the old electro-mechanical telephone bell, it is better to not connect this wire as it can cause interference to your broadband connection.

Wire (B) 48v DC Live.

Wire (A) 0v DC Neutral.

http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/wiring_info.htm

http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wiring/UK_telephon...

http://www.rob-r.co.uk/other/UKphonecatwiring.htm

Edited by deleted (Sat 01-Sep-12 15:58:13)

Well.... we phoned BT and said it looked like their engineer may not have wired up the extension properly, could we speak to somebody about it. They basically said 'Go away, talk to Orange'. I explained it was nothing to do with Orange, or the internet; it was a while ago, when it was a BT line, it was a direct contract between us and BT to make equipment changes, and if their engineer had made a mess of it, it was a mater for BT, nothing to do with Orange. 'Go away'. Never mind, Orange sending engineer on Tuesday to sort it. We'll just have to pay.

The router is and was plugged into one of the two sockets in the 'extension' (Router stats below). We tried it in the test socket - connected briefly, then disconnected and stayed that way. Reconnected - by chance in the other of the two extension sockets - still no connection. It will only connect for any period of time in one of the two 'extension' sockets, (which tallies with what you predicted) and even then our speed is steadily decreasing (as you see below, gone are the giddy heights of 1.9mb/s we had this morning!) and BT Speedtest reports an apparent line fault.



I suspect that the speed loss is some combination of the line problem caused by the two master sockets, and profile issues of us messing about plugging the router into sockets which didn't work. Though the line fault indicated on speedtest obviously takes account of the profile.

I'm happy, because I'm convinced thanks to your advice we will get at least part of the problem solved on Tuesday as I'm sure you're right and at the least a major part of the problem is our wiring. Once the wiring is A1, then we can see if there is still an indicated line fault - it doesn't fill me with confidence that the nearest BT cabinet is broken and tied together with string (literally!) but no doubt that's just coincidence!

ADSL Status
This page shows information about your ADSL connection if applicable.
Status:
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.3(ADSL2)
Data Rate Information:
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 664 (Kbps.)
Downstream 960 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication:
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 8.9 dB 10.8 dB
Line Attenuation 25.0 dB 48.0 dB

Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 10.9 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction NA NA
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 96 55
Fast Path CRC Error NA NA
Interleaved Path CRC Error 0 4
Loss of Signal Defect 3 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR NA NA
Interleaved Path HEC Error 0 4
Error Seconds 193 6
Statistics:
Received Cells 13521747
Transmitted Cells 978226









In the meantime, we tested the test socket

In reply to a post by telnolies:

The router is and was plugged into one of the two sockets in the 'extension'

Still not clear! Which one of the two sockets of the LJU5? The one with the yellow capacitor or w/out? Were your previous stats from the same one? Notice the Line Attenuation has reduced.

See that you have been moved to WBC and that you are now on ADSL2 as I suggested but you should be getting nearly 6 Meg,

Presume your line rental is with Orange. Hence that's why BT don't want to get involved.

EDIT: Tell BT Openreach eng that your line needs "normalising".

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sat 01-Sep-12 19:38:36)

An idea: Connect a phone to each of 3 sockets in turn, master and L&R of LJU5, call 17070 and listen to the welcome message "This circuit is defined as #". Check it is your same # on all of them. If you withhold your # dial 1470 in front of 17070.

In reply to a post by telnolies:

Well.... we phoned BT and said it looked like their engineer may not have wired up the extension properly, could we speak to somebody about it. They basically said 'Go away, talk to Orange'. I explained it was nothing to do with Orange, or the internet; it was a while ago, when it was a BT line, it was a direct contract between us and BT to make equipment changes, and if their engineer had made a mess of it, it was a mater for BT, nothing to do with Orange. 'Go away'. Never mind, Orange sending engineer on Tuesday to sort it. We'll just have to pay.

The router is and was plugged into one of the two sockets in the 'extension' (Router stats below). We tried it in the test socket - connected briefly, then disconnected and stayed that way. Reconnected - by chance in the other of the two extension sockets - still no connection. It will only connect for any period of time in one of the two 'extension' sockets, (which tallies with what you predicted) and even then our speed is steadily decreasing (as you see below, gone are the giddy heights of 1.9mb/s we had this morning!) and BT Speedtest reports an apparent line fault.



I suspect that the speed loss is some combination of the line problem caused by the two master sockets, and profile issues of us messing about plugging the router into sockets which didn't work. Though the line fault indicated on speedtest obviously takes account of the profile.

I'm happy, because I'm convinced thanks to your advice we will get at least part of the problem solved on Tuesday as I'm sure you're right and at the least a major part of the problem is our wiring. Once the wiring is A1, then we can see if there is still an indicated line fault - it doesn't fill me with confidence that the nearest BT cabinet is broken and tied together with string (literally!) but no doubt that's just coincidence!

BT is no longer responsible for your telephone extension sockets and wiring. Rewire it yourself it�s easy enough to do. You only connect two solid core wires to each extension socket (Blue with thin white bands) to terminal 2 and (white with thin blue bands) to terminal 5 and that�s it!

http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/wiring_info.htm

http://www.qvsdirect.com/4-Core-2-pairs-Telephone-Ca...

http://www.qvsdirect.com/Telephone-Cable-c-900.html?...

http://www.qvsdirect.com/Insertion-Tool-pr-18707.html

http://www.qvsdirect.com/Slimline-White-Telephone-So...

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Telephones_an...

Edited by deleted (Sun 02-Sep-12 12:13:09)

The router is now plugged into the non-capacitor side of the LSU5, and starting to pick up speed!



If I plug it onto the other side, it slows to a crawl, lowering the profile every 'training' interval until it gets to 0.1mb/s - again, pretty much what you said would happen. And as mentioned, if plugged into the test socket in the 'other' master, we get nothing. The reason I want Orange to check/repair (or at least be responsible for the checking of) the wiring is three-fold; firstly it looks like the wrong faceplate is being used and I don't think I'm allowed to touch that, but anyway I'd like them to confirm that for themselves; secondly neither they, or hopefully BT, can then argue it's our wiring if all is still not well - If I do it myself, no matter how well, both can argue it isn't right. And thirdly, the fact we lose connection altogether if we plug into the 'original' master test socket may be highlighting another issue....

My issue with BT (not that it's worth pursuing), is that Orange quite reasonably say they are not responsible if, prior to their 'ownership' of the line, BT made a mess of swapping the 2nd line for an extension - I agree entirely. The contract was with BT to do it, I paid BT, it was nothing to do with the internet as such though we were with BT at the time, and it's BT engineers who, if it is messed up, did so - they are the only people who are legally responsible, but refuse to even speak to me about it! It's no big deal, just down to experience.. and my permanent mantra 'however bad or frustrating Orange may be, remember BT were much worse' lol!

To be fair - apart from some wrong, misleading and contradictory information, in many ways Orange are dealing with this pretty well - all the signs are the causes are not down to them but are (1) the error made by BT in the wiring, and possibly (2) an additional line fault, though that might be down to (1) as well I guess.

and the 17070 test?

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

and the 17070 test?

Quiet. But profile is now starting to fall again

Edited by deleted (Mon 03-Sep-12 09:06:32)

No, the 3 circuit definitions: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/freeserve/t/4153332...

Oh right - sorry. Yep, all correct.

What I don't understand - well OK, one of the many things I don't understand! - is that our upload speed stays pretty respectable, close to 1mb/s now. While our download varies between 1.9mb/s and 0.1 mb/s - though a bit more stable now it's in this socket and I'm not using the 'original' master at all. BT speedtest tells me '2mb/s is the maximum for our connection', but is that taking the profile into account? As asking BT directly, and checking on Zen which says the same thing - both tell me we should get 3mb/s..... I can dream!

Will update after engineer comes tomorrow.. should be fun!

Edited by deleted (Mon 03-Sep-12 19:35:24)