I would think there must be a junction box somewhere in order that a second line or a spare pair from the exchange could be used in the future.

Seems likely that the unused 2nd line from premises side of the junction box has somehow been utilized to rig up the extension? If the extension is from a filtered faceplate on the master then that filtered voice signal shouldn't cause any problems for the broadband by which ever means it's routed?

DACS is "digital audio (or access as some say!) carrier system".

It's basically a small box of tricks which converts a single pair (normally the d-side pair) into 2 seperate voice lines; so that's 1 line from exchange to DACS and 2 lines out from DACS to subscriber.

They're normally located close to the house, usually pole top but occasionally on the house wall.

They were popular many years ago when line plant was scarce and everyone had voice only lines (before ADSL took off!)

When your DACS was removed for ADSL, the engineeer would have used the original pair from the excahnge, so there would have been no reason to "reserve" any other d-side or e-side pair using any of the convoluted techniques suggested, i.e. extensions back to the exchange etc.

However, you may be correct with regards the extension being "backwired" out of one NTE back to the pole and then back again into the other room. "Overhead" extensions are not good engineering practice but they have been done before Why, I've no idea, it would be easier to cleat a cable round the wall unless there's obstructions (nice diagram BTW)!

One thing's certain: the line or extension will not be backwired all the way back to the excnahge or even the cab; if anything it will be crimped out at the top of the pole dropwire to dropwire!

Let everyone know what happens when your engineer comes round

and what's your view of 2 masters on same circuit?

Difficult to tell from where I am!

From the OP's description it sounds likely that in the past, before DACS, removal that the house acually did have 2 seperate lines from the DACS, hence 2 NTE5 master sockets.

After DACS removal, one of the NTE5s was made into the only "master" while the other NTE5 appears to have been wired as an extension. Obviously this would cause confusion, but since an NTE5 is electrically the same as a master LJU, the engineer probably didn't see this as a problem. Afterall, if he's used existing dropwire spans to create an overhead extension, I don't imagine he'll have been to concerned about using an NTE5 as an extension!

Wonder why OP gets diff BB from diff sockets if electrically equiv. The round the houses extension?

Dont expect eng visit to fix NM; only Orange can do that.

Right guys..... I can now tell you what happened. Second engineer arrived 17.30 today - well yesterday actually. He has just left, at 00.10 this morning! He tells me the following:

1) As Xray highlighted, there should not have been two masters, with two capacitors, on the line. Nor should one extension have been fed back to the pole and then to the other one. He has no idea why the original second line wasn't taken from the 'spare line' wiring in the original cable, why the first engineer put on two new master sockets, or why he didn't standardise the wiring.

But none of that was the main problem!

2) He found a very high level of REIN (in simple terms for anyone who like me doesn't know these things, electrical intereference), which wasn't from our house. This was tracked down to a neighbours Wii.. in the middle of their dinner... whoops...

But that wasn't the main problem either!

3) The problem was the cable to our house. At the pole outside, sync speed was 5.0mb/s. 20 feet away, it was 0.5mb/s. But - all his initial tests showed there was nothing wrong with line or cable - which is why he spent 3 hours, in the dark and pouring rain, climbing 6 different poles to find where the signal was being lost! In the end he wired our line up to the spare wires in the cable - and hey presto...



The guy was a star. Oh and he could, and did, reset the NM to 6db, which - pretty close - is what it now is.

We've been asked to monitor this for a bit, as it may be necessary to replace the cable entirely.... and a neighbour has also had problems, so there may be something else in the wiring at that pole...but compared to 0.1mb/s.... this is internet heaven!

So... if you're reading this because you've googled some of the issues and are getting nowhere - my advice is very much to talk to the guys on here; they may not be able to fix it for you, but without the help of other posters, especially Xray, I would not have been able to understand enough of the problem to persevere and get this fixed - many thanks guys.

As for Orange - well 5/10. Because while their technical service has got better, apparently they had access to the same stats as the BT engineeer and should have been able to tell weeks ago that there was clearly a mega problem on our line and ordered a Broadband Health Check then, not waited 6 weeks.

Cheers guys!

Edited by deleted (Tue 11-Sep-12 00:39:59)

Thanks & well done!

Router stats now?

Perhaps you can't blame Orange too much if an Openreach eng, with experience of phone cabling, on the spot wasn't able to find it, you can't really expect BB support staff to spot it remotely from a few numbers.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Thanks & well done!

Router stats now?

Perhaps you can't blame Orange too much if an Openreach eng, with experience of phone cabling, on the spot wasn't able to find it, you can't really expect BB support staff to spot it remotely from a few numbers.

Ah, but the first engineer (Mr. Grunt) was told to investigate 'damaged faceplates' - because Orange can only use certain report codes to BT and don't have one for 'BT have put two master sockets on one line' lol! So I tell the guy in Bombay who tells the guy in wherever who tells BT Wholesale who tells BT Openreach... by which time it's become 'damaged faceplates'. Send three and fourpence.....

Thus first engineer said he couldn't look at the internet problem, and didn' t - though apparently what he did do broke every rule in the book. Second engineer came for the internet fault, took one look at his data records and said 'you have a major problem'. Which, he in due course explained Orange should have seen too, it was that bad.

And you'll see below that while NM is rising a little - which is I think maybe kind of good as speed isn't falling - error seconds are going up. Methinks they will have to change the cable - I think he's expecting to, but none of us felt like doing it at 1.00 in the morning, and he's left his phone number for me to get back to him directly!

ADSL Status

Status:
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Fast Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.3(ADSL2)

Data Rate Information:
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 1039 (Kbps.)
Downstream 4983 (Kbps.)

Defect/Failure Indication:
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 5.7 dB 8.9 dB
Line Attenuation 24.2 dB 43.5 dB

Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.8 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction 0 0
Interleaved Path FEC Correction NA NA
Fast Path CRC Error 284 16
Interleaved Path CRC Error NA NA
Loss of Signal Defect 3 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR 1203 12
Interleaved Path HEC Error NA NA
Error Seconds 170 20

Statistics:
Received Cells 1078756
Transmitted Cells 255976

Much better! Still a bit slow for your attn., somewhat due to the 9 dB Target NM. Give it a few days to settle.

Don't worry about ES as long as not much more than 1 per min. on Fast Path.

Could go on ad nauseum about 1st eng dereliction of duty, but it's not a quantum leap from 'damaged faceplates' to "Oh, the backplates behind them are incompatible!" for someone whose job is phone wiring . That's not just a BB problem.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Tue 11-Sep-12 13:43:01)