In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

But: usage is proportional to bitrate.

40GB a month @ 10Mbps = less than 20 mins/day

I never seen such invalid reasoning! The flaw in your logic is the assumption that the connection is passing actual data, which is what the usage limit is about, at 100% of the full sync speed all the time 24/7. Most of the time it isn't!

If what you contend is true, than how would you explain that I'm connected for at least 6 hours each day at 20 Meg Sync Speed doing browsing, gaming and occasional streaming yet never exceeding 10GB per month? On your calculation I would be consuming 83% throughput x 20 Mb/s / 8 bits x 3600 secs x 6 hrs x 30 days = 1345 GB per month.

Also watching 1 hour TV each and every day is not particularly moderate, more regular. Anyway OP wasn't interested in streaming.

All in all, you vastly exaggerate the issue for the OP.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

I never seen such invalid reasoning! The flaw in your logic is the assumption that the connection is passing actual data, which is what the usage limit is about, at 100% of the full sync speed all the time 24/7. Most of the time it isn't!

You have misunderstand what I wrote, and the whole point.

The point is, that if you need to upgrade to fibre to get >10Mbps download, you can not download at that rate for more than 20 mins/day and stay within 40GB/month. So the question posed is what you are actually downloading that you need so fast.

I only asked the OP if anyone in the household streamed TV because in my experience it puts the 40GB limit in jeapoardy. I don't agree that I exaggerated anything or was scaremongering, and I was only asking for more information.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

If what you contend is true, than how would you explain that I'm connected for at least 6 hours each day at 20 Meg Sync Speed doing browsing, gaming and occasional streaming yet never exceeding 10GB per month? On your calculation I would be consuming 83% throughput x 20 Mb/s / 8 bits x 3600 secs x 6 hrs x 30 days = 1345 GB per month.

I never contended any such thing. Again, some degree of understanding the point being made is needed: you can do it because your streaming bitrate is so low that it does not demand fibre in the first place.

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

The bitrates used for iPlayer and other catchup TV on the Sky Box are near-broadcast. 1 hour of SD every day equals about 30GB/month and 1 hour of HD about 90GB/month.

I hour iPlayer HD programme = about 1GB, the 720p VBR compression will be about 2500Kbps average peaking at 3500Kbps. I think 3GB for a 1 hour iPlayer HD video would push the bit rate to ~7500Kbps and hence the streaming rate up to 10000Kbps in order to allow for the variable bit rate (VBR.) An iPlayer speed/diagnostic test suggests 3500Kbps is just about adequate to stream HD.

Perhaps you should amend your post otherwise it could be very misleading for readers of this forum?

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

I never contended any such thing.

Yes you did by saying "usage is proportional to bitrate" without qualifying it. Usage varies with whatever you are doing and changes all the time. It is not connected to the sync speed other than being limited by it.

Also implying that you would use up your 40GB / month usage limit within 20 mins /day by running at full speed all the time, again regardless of what you were doing. Who runs at full speed for protracted periods? Certainly not the OP and myself.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

The bitrates used for iPlayer and other catchup TV on the Sky Box are near-broadcast. 1 hour of SD every day equals about 30GB/month and 1 hour of HD about 90GB/month.

I hour iPlayer HD programme = about 1GB, the 720p VBR compression will be about 2500Kbps average peaking at 3500Kbps. I think 3GB for a 1 hour iPlayer HD video would push the bit rate to ~7500Kbps and hence the streaming rate up to 10000Kbps in order to allow for the variable bit rate (VBR.) An iPlayer speed/diagnostic test suggests 3500Kbps is just about adequate to stream HD.

Perhaps you should amend your post otherwise it could be very misleading for readers of this forum?

No. Your evidence is based around iPlayer through the BBC website or desktop program. Sky's service is very different (and it looks it). The service shows each program's size - and one hour of HD is usually between 2.5-3.5GB.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

I never contended any such thing.

Yes you did by saying "usage is proportional to bitrate" without qualifying it.

I'm sorry that you thought "bitrate" in a discussion of video streaming referred to broadband sync speed?

There is plenty of qualification and context in the rest of the post and the preceding post, again - read it again, maybe eventually you'll get there : )

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

Sky's service is very different (and it looks it).

Why introduce the Sky Box and the excessive figures of the Sky service when (a) OP is not even interested in streaming and (b) nobody has even suggested streaming from Sky rather than the more usual means of TV catch-up via a browser?

Another red herring!

Sorry must have misread your post when you mentioned iPlayer and the Sky Box in the same sentence. However that's some bit rate that your talking about there for 720p H.264 if a 1 hour video can be ~3GB.

720p can be compressed very successfully to 5000Kbps VBR H.264 - however1080p would probably need 8000Kbps VBR for "broadcast quality" although the studio would require a 35Mbps minimum...

Edited by 4M2 (Tue 23-Apr-13 02:00:55)

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

I'm sorry that you thought "bitrate" in a discussion of video streaming referred to broadband sync speed?

There was no discussion of video streaming until you introduced it in that post. Until then the discussion was on usage in general and, again, OP insisted he was not interested in it. So why harp on it?

Define your terms when you introduce them and then, maybe, eventually others will get where you imagine you are.

Rather than talking to EE shop or phone customer service and getting unverified and misleading info about the fibre packages and the speeds they will give you, you could see this in writing directly from your Member Centre on the Orange website: Change your home package

EDIT: I agree tho' that with your current usage you will gain nothing, or at most marginally, by switching to fibre, together with the disadvantage of having a monthly cap placed on your usage.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Tue 23-Apr-13 03:28:47)