My new gaming PC....maybe

I don't know if I will or won't build a gaming PC yet, or if I do, how I'm going to slip it under the missus's radar.

But whilst looking into the options, I have proved one thing (to myself at least). You can't build a gaming rig for the same price as a next gen console as some PC elitists will have you believe, unless you are prepared to aim for the lowest common denominator.

So firstly, as some will automatically disagree, I'll list my project criteria:

1. It must all be sourced from UK based suppliers with a solid (and tested) returns policy.
2. Strictly new parts (no refurbished/over clocked)
4. Strictly no eBay.
5. Parts must be of reasonable known quality i.e. I might want a Corsair power supply over an own brand unit.
6. The case has to be roomy and as quiet as my PS4
7. It has to be aesthetically pleasing next to my PS4
8. It has to have an 8 core AMD CPU
9. It must have multiple screen support
10. It will utilize a 40" LED TV (other than for a possible future multi monitor rig)

So here's my current musing:

Fractal Designs: Define R4 case
ASRock 990FX Killer AM3+ motherboard
Corsair Builder series CX 650W PSU
2 x 4GB Vengeance Pro Series Dual Channel DDR3 RAM (2400)
AMD FX 8350 Black Series CPU
Sapphire R9 270X Toxic GPU
Windows 7 64 bit OEM

Total: £731-00

I originally priced with a 780Ti Phantom in mind, but that came out at £976-00!

Remember, my target is simply Project Cars in Ultra with future 4K capability. The rest I'm happy at 1080p on my console.

I have utilised Scan.co.uk as they look like they fulfill my criteria but would like suggestions.

Lots of advice please, as the last PC I built was optomised for Yahoo messenger pool competitions..

Wouldn't use Scan and wouldn't even entertain the idea of a PC.....You buying a PC strictly for Project Cars......Won't you ever learn Nelly......

Your not exactly playing that much and don't have a lot of spare time according to yourself so it's not a venture I would be getting myself involved in...

As for Scan ,they built my system that cost around £2000 8 years ago and within weeks even with the twin graphic cards and there [censored] about there 3dX systems and custom rigs the thing started getting slower and slower until it completly put me of PC gaming...

I bought at the time one of there best rigs with there branded 3DX logo and I wasn't truly inspired or impressed,and the after sales experience was pretty non existence in my case even though on one occasion I sent it back...

Far better places to go than Scan mate....

Personally I don't see any reason ....Game wise ? Why you even need to consider PC Gaming,yes the resolution may be better but what exactly game wise do they have that not already on consoles..

Developers in there droves have left development of PC ordinated software for preference in the console market as it offers far more profit...

PC a dying market,ask Toady or your mate Crysalis

In reply to a post by mrnelster:

I don't know if I will or won't build a gaming PC yet, or if I do, how I'm going to slip it under the missus's radar.

But whilst looking into the options, I have proved one thing (to myself at least). You can't build a gaming rig for the same price as a next gen console as some PC elitists will have you believe, unless you are prepared to aim for the lowest common denominator.

So firstly, as some will automatically disagree, I'll list my project criteria:

1. It must all be sourced from UK based suppliers with a solid (and tested) returns policy.
2. Strictly new parts (no refurbished/over clocked)
4. Strictly no eBay.
5. Parts must be of reasonable known quality i.e. I might want a Corsair power supply over an own brand unit.
6. The case has to be roomy and as quiet as my PS4
7. It has to be aesthetically pleasing next to my PS4
8. It has to have an 8 core AMD CPU
9. It must have multiple screen support
10. It will utilize a 40" LED TV (other than for a possible future multi monitor rig)

So here's my current musing:

Fractal Designs: Define R4 case
ASRock 990FX Killer AM3+ motherboard
Corsair Builder series CX 650W PSU
2 x 4GB Vengeance Pro Series Dual Channel DDR3 RAM (2400)
AMD FX 8350 Black Series CPU
Sapphire R9 270X Toxic GPU
Windows 7 64 bit OEM

Total: £731-00

I originally priced with a 780Ti Phantom in mind, but that came out at £976-00!

Remember, my target is simply Project Cars in Ultra with future 4K capability. The rest I'm happy at 1080p on my console.

I have utilised Scan.co.uk as they look like they fulfill my criteria but would like suggestions.

Lots of advice please, as the last PC I built was optomised for Yahoo messenger pool competitions..

If I had your Mrs phone number I would grass you up......

the best returns policy by far is amazon.

an example.

I brought a gtx 760 from them last year.
The fan was too noisy (was blower style), my fault for lack of proper research.
Amazon basically have an option on returns where you can return the product for simply not liking it, no questions asked, and thats what I did. They also paid for return shipping, the guy picked up from door.

Also for gaming although its more expensive I suggest intel/nvidia, problems are less likely, in particularly new games are becoming cpu demanding, and intel has the best per core performance.

Since you also building this for 4k gaming? a R9 270X wont cut it. You will need at a minimum 4 gig of gddr5, preferably more. Nvidia gtx970 is brilliant bang for the buck, but amd seem to have the edge on 4k gaming so maybe a r9 290x, you may have to buy a 2nd for crossfire if it cannot handle the resolution tho

I can confirm the define R4 is very quiet. I have 4 fans in the case (6 if include cpu/gpu) and its almost silent, and is silent on idle. I slightly hear gpu fan when ramps up for games. But far quiter than console fans.

Also I would wait, the amd 300 series will be released very soon, they will be better cards and the 200 series will get cheaper as well.

Edited by Chrysalis (Sun 15-Feb-15 18:40:50)

his dilemma is like my ps4 dilemma.

Buying hardware just for one or two games.

funny video for you I found it funny and I own a 970.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spZJrsssPA0

Thanks for posting this
I want to get a PC too

Their are plenty of UK hardware companies- Scan/Overclockers/Ebuyer/Novatech/Aria- Amazon is not bad option either.

You will get better advice using a pc hardware forum on building a rig- aria and overclockers are quite good or pick up a copy of custom pc -plenty of build guides.

one thing to remember core count isnt the be all and end all.

some games dont utilise even more than 1 core, and those that do probably are optimised for 2 or 4 cores. This is different to consoles where the optimised core count will be whats in the consoles.

I would only go AMD for the cpu if its for budget reasons as AMD is cheaper.

one area where he can save money is the ram, just get 1600 ram, 2400 wont make a slight bit of difference over 1600.

Also I dont think much is wrong with scan, I got my gtx 970 from there. Just I tend to find amazon's returns policies the best out there, and I as I have amazon prime I use amazon whenever possible.

Edited by Chrysalis (Mon 16-Feb-15 07:51:08)

Im sticking with my little black box with playstation 4 on it currently waiting for The order 1886.

Another game Swanny will no doubt moan about having not been content with a single game on the system.

Personally I usually use Novatech - but that to some extent is because it is only a 20 minute drive away and so avoids all the waiting in for deliveries. But, they've always been very good.

A decent gaming PC is definitely a lot more expensive than a games console. I think I spent a little over a grand on my last one (but I did put twin SSD in raid configuration which added quite a bit).

I'm content with GTA and will start playing AC Unity again soon which I enjoy playing.
I won't be buying The order 1886 for a long time yet as I still have games here to finish or nearly finish.
It's the PS4 that I'm not impressed with.

For what reason when every body knows its a far superior system spec wise to the Playstation 3.

I admit it has some issues with the likes of know streaming media server and a awful message system that just seems to be getting a little better.

But it has some useful features and the Shareplay is one of them.

But it has some useful features and the Shareplay is one of them.

Damn straight!

Us oooosh boys got the hump with a constant T-boner, so in the next race we ganged up on him. Last night I set it to a metal soundtrack, then posted him the link across the PSN. He wasn't best pleased lol!

Gotta love that share button.

Thanks for the advice, I'll look them up.

I've read that the R9 270X will scrape 4k if over clocked, but I'm not too bothered about that to start with to be fair. Ultra will do on my 40" @ 1080p and cards will likely be right down in price again by the time 4k becomes common place.

It's also good to know the R4 is as good as the marketing claims, thank you.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

his dilemma is like my ps4 dilemma.

Buying hardware just for one or two games.

Precisely. I'm more than happy with my PS4 in general. It's just Project Cars on extreme settings looks awesome. Racing games for me are the ones where top notch graphics float my boat.

My pleasure Monsieur Swan.

Been routing around Overclockers forums, thanks for the tip.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

one thing to remember core count isnt the be all and end all.

some games dont utilise even more than 1 core, and those that do probably are optimised for 2 or 4 cores. This is different to consoles where the optimised core count will be whats in the consoles.

I would only go AMD for the cpu if its for budget reasons as AMD is cheaper.

one area where he can save money is the ram, just get 1600 ram, 2400 wont make a slight bit of difference over 1600.

Also I dont think much is wrong with scan, I got my gtx 970 from there. Just I tend to find amazon's returns policies the best out there, and I as I have amazon prime I use amazon whenever possible.

Right now maybe, but parallel is the future and no longer brute force. It just depends how soon that future is realised. Sooner than you think perhaps.

The 2400 was almost the same price as the 1600. That set up also likes two sticks better than one apparently.

well remember the PC market is not a common spec, games will be developed for the most popular spec out there, and that is not 8 core CPU's.

With that said tho DX12, one of the biggest gains from it will be better core scaling, on DX11 and older, it has a limitation where a core will be doing most of the work due to fact a lot of stuff is limited to one core cpu side.

If budget is an issue keep the amd 8 core.

If it isnt and 4 core you feel isnt enough, then spend big on a intel i7-5960X which is crazy money, more realistic perhaps an intel 4790k which is 4 physical cores, 8 logical cores. Will outperform the AMD.

But you need to realise that weak GPU you picked will bottleneck before the CPU gets maxed out anyway.

To give you an idea of vram usage, on DA inquisitions I am utilising 3 gig of VRAM on my 970 and I play at 1050p, never mind 4k. When the PS4 got launched VRAM requirements went through the roof.

Any modern game now is not going to run well will with 2 gig of vram at 1080p never mind 4k. Remember the PS4 has 8 gig of VRAM. You might get the game you buying the rig for to run at 4k with 2 gig frame buffer if you put the textures at low quality but then it would look worse than the PS4 version, and you already have a PS4.

Only porn films does top not graphics rock my Boat which is my cutie name for my @@@@.

Dinghy more like.

The system is a step backwards from the PS3 imo
Can't even change the wallpaper [censored]
Loading times are a joke, I thought there were going to be a thing of the past

What loading times?!? They're way better

What you mean you can not change the wallpaper ,i change mine every week.

Loading times and downloads are at least twice as quick if not faster,you sure your not working for Microsoft Swanny as a PR advisor.

Think he's going through the change mate [craxy] nothing he says regarding the system makes any sense.

the only gripe i have was the pathetic message system and times it takes,apart from that I'm happy,especially come Thursday when in theory we have a game that could even surpass The Last of us ��.In looks anyway.

another warning, my noise comment is with a gtx 970, thats a maxwell card which is highly power efficient and heat efficient, it is so good the fans can stay off when idle. AMD cards do run hotter and as a result 'may' be noisier.

So not happy with being a PC fanboy you're also an Intel/Nvidia fanboy too!!! j/k

Hey stop causing trouble Jorkila

Wasn't you a Xbox One fanboy at one time until you saw the light

Haha not a fanboy buddy, my loyalty tends to be what I can get the cheapest game on

That be a Atari Jaguar then ...

In reply to a post by jorkila:

Haha not a fanboy buddy, my loyalty tends to be what I can get the cheapest game on

I dare say you will tell me your skint,then be playing the order 1886 Friday for 10 minutes,then Driveclub,then GTA ,then Rayman ,then Tomb raider and so on and so on.....

In reply to a post by jorkila:

Haha not a fanboy buddy, my loyalty tends to be what I can get the cheapest game on

You mentioned Fanboy in your thread,I just continued from there matey

Anything slightly interesting on the horizon so I can try and kick start this giant ugly looking papeweight I have stuck under the TV taking up unnecessary space.

Not a single reason to switch it on......

Edited by time2die (Tue 17-Feb-15 19:05:17)

I think I'll wait and see how well the PS4 renders it first. This PC graphics card malarkey is all a bit Heath Robinson. Everybody reckons this will do that, and that card won't etc.

Then I watch a video from an 8350 with a GTX 580 running project cars "apparently" in 4k. The frame rate doesn't appear choppy, yet everybody will tell you it's impossible.

Seeing is believing I reckon.

Each has their own merits, but yeah I would say nvidia are overall better in the pc market.

Nvidia more power/heat efficient.
970 probably best value card on market at the moment even with the recent farce.
Nvidia drivers tend to be less problematic (with this said tho it wouldnt surprise me if nvidia paid devs to favour their product).

On the other hand.

AMD usually cheaper.
AMD usually better memory bus and size.
AMD freesync will work on any displayport 1.2a monitor not requiring special chip.
AMD seems to have edge in 4k gaming, part of the reason is that their crossfire is better than nvidia's sli. The higher memory bandwidth is probably a part in it also.

Me personally I have always stuck with nvidia because it just works more frequently.

Probably best yes.

I think we had a discussion in the past where I said my 5 pence which was texture quality etc. can play just a big part if not more than pixel count.

A higher texture/shadow/lighting quality on 1080p would probably be superior to a low end gpu having to turn everything down to render at 4k, plus I think it is now sane to wait to see what the amd 300 series has to offer.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/43517/amd-radeon-r9-39...

Edited by Chrysalis (Tue 17-Feb-15 22:08:07)

Haha it's not my fault that I have an attention span of a gnat lol

I am considering The Order though!!

nvidia bribes?

http://www.vg247.com/2014/06/05/far-cry-4-the-divisi...

Seems I going to get "The Division" free, new ubisoft game, although I didnt hear of it until I found all 970 owners get it free.

According to reports its just about long enough for even you to finish it in one sitting

Post deleted by seb

Edited by mrnelster (Wed 18-Feb-15 07:29:46)

In reply to a post by Lt_Swan:

Thanks for posting this
I want to get a PC too

So what you thinking of spending and for what games Mr Swan? I'm only bothered about driving sims if I do it.

Recalling our little discussion about your travels, this has just opened in Milton Keynes. It's literally only a mile down the road from me. Going down next Wednesday evening for a try out with wotty.

Should be a good laugh.

That looks good, are you going with some mates?

I just want it for general gaming. I feel that because I'm closer to the screen and have a good surround sound system that I'm more involved in the game, just slouching on the settee is ok but feels a bit distant. And yea you can't really do racing games on a consol.

No idea how much I'll spend, doesn't have to be able to run the games at max

As summers on it's way I won't be buying one for a while, I'll wait for the grey days in October

Edited by deleted (Wed 18-Feb-15 08:57:23)

Yeah its difficult playing games on a 12 inch portable TV from distance.and don't lie you want a PC to be closer because the old eyes are going

I have similiar views to you on framerate.

I have accepted that if used to 60fps then 30fps will 'initially' feel choppy, but it wears of quite quickly.

I was toggling inquisitions between 30 and 60, and if run it at 30 after playing at 60 it does feel choppy at first but 5 minutes later it doesnt.

Where my view differs to many people is if 60 isnt consistent so lets say 20-60fps, but 30fps is consistent. The latter is superior. Also I still feel 60fps doesnt feel quite right for a gameplay experience (I do accept what you said regarding FPS games tho in terms of helping aiming).

If this is bad enough there is gamers who play at 144fps on new asus monitors and then claim 60fps is choppy

There can be a huge difference in what a GPU is capable off when adjusting settings in a game, If I set low quality textures, low everything else in DA:I it will use about 300meg of vram and my gpu can play the game at half clocks barely using 30% utilisation, max everything out and add some MSAA, and its at full clocks using 90% and over 3 gig of vram.

In DA:I is low,medium,high,ultra, fade touched for quality of textures, PS4 is at high, I run at fade touched although its hard to see the difference between ultra and fade touched. Then there is shadow quality, lighting (SBAO, HBAO, HBAO FULL), I cant tell the difference between HBAO and HBAO FULL but HBAO FULL slows the framerate down in a weird way, no idea which the PS4 uses for lighting, I use HBAO. Shadow quality, vegetation quality, object detail level (tesselation), post processing effect level, FSAA toggle (cheap form of AA, personally I Dont like it, adds blurryness to edges), usually MSAA will wreck a gpu in DA:I but I have started using nvidia's new MFAA which makes MSAA much cheaper to use.

So all these things that can be adjusted in games on the PC one can make a GPU handle higher pixel count by adjusting these but propbably at a price unless the GPU is powerful. Pixel count has a defenite increase of vram usage, which the only way you can mitigate that is lowering texture quality, most of the other stuff doesnt affect vram usage much but just the gpu processing load.

Edited by Chrysalis (Wed 18-Feb-15 16:56:05)

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

I have similiar views to you on framerate.

I have accepted that if used to 60fps then 30fps will 'initially' feel choppy, but it wears of quite quickly.

I was toggling inquisitions between 30 and 60, and if run it at 30 after playing at 60 it does feel choppy at first but 5 minutes later it doesnt.

Where my view differs to many people is if 60 isnt consistent so lets say 20-60fps, but 30fps is consistent. The latter is superior. Also I still feel 60fps doesnt feel quite right for a gameplay experience (I do accept what you said regarding FPS games tho in terms of helping aiming).

If this is bad enough there is gamers who play at 144fps on new asus monitors and then claim 60fps is choppy

There can be a huge difference in what a GPU is capable off when adjusting settings in a game, If I set low quality textures, low everything else in DA:I it will use about 300meg of vram and my gpu can play the game at half clocks barely using 30% utilisation, max everything out and add some MSAA, and its at full clocks using 90% and over 3 gig of vram.

In DA:I is low,medium,high,ultra, fade touched for quality of textures, PS4 is at high, I run at fade touched although its hard to see the difference between ultra and fade touched. Then there is shadow quality, lighting (SBAO, HBAO, HBAO FULL), I cant tell the difference between HBAO and HBAO FULL but HBAO FULL slows the framerate down in a weird way, no idea which the PS4 uses for lighting, I use HBAO. Shadow quality, vegetation quality, object detail level (tesselation), post processing effect level, FSAA toggle (cheap form of AA, personally I Dont like it, adds blurryness to edges), usually MSAA will wreck a gpu in DA:I but I have started using nvidia's new MFAA which makes MSAA much cheaper to use.

So all these things that can be adjusted in games on the PC one can make a GPU handle higher pixel count by adjusting these but propbably at a price unless the GPU is powerful. Pixel count has a defenite increase of vram usage, which the only way you can mitigate that is lowering texture quality, most of the other stuff doesnt affect vram usage much but just the gpu processing load.

There's a first.....You 2 agreeing

Up grading to colour will be a bonus too