What can I expect from BT OpenReach?

Summary:
Can I expect BT Openreach to re-route the internal (BT) cabling to improve my broadband?

Situation:

My office is on a long Line: about 3km as the crow flies, 6km via road. I was never expecting super speeds but on a newly installed line I am getting about 500kb/s. My ISP is Opal so I'm on TalkTalk LLU "up to 24Mb/s".

My line stats are terrible (69dB atten down) but I was hoping for speeds a bit better than this!

I'm wondering if the routing of the BT cables inside the building, that houses my office, could be making things worse. The building's phone lines run down a very long corridor (its an ex-mining building now converted to business units). They run alongside three-phase electrical lines and other nasties for as far as 50m. The electric cables supply some very heavy machinery (for a metal works/engineering company) so there'll be plenty of amps flowing down them!

I'm thinking that the having phone lines right next to such heavy power lines can't be helping my broadband speeds. The phone lines would have been laid well before Broadband existed.

Would BT OpenReach be prepared to re-lay a phone line (say to the opposite side of the corridor, away from the electrical nasties) just to help my broadband? I'm the only one on this ground floor that uses broadband, out of about 12 business units.

If this is the sort of thing BT OpenReach would do then I can put pressure on my ISP to send out an engineer. Opal currently seem to be reluctant to do anything other than tweak my LLU profile.

Thanks for any tips or advice.
To be clear, there really is nothing more I can do from my side of the BT master socket - my router is plugged straight in with no phone extensions etc. The BT box is a brand new install.

You prepared for the bill?

Are you able to take a look at what one of your neighbours line stats are like?

If one of the offices has an NTE5 where the wiring hasn't gone past the 'noisy' route you describe you could check their attenuation etc.

But as your line looks like a long one there may not be much improvement...

there's a standard rate for moving wiring around in customer premises - relocation of BT lineplant - "Internal and External Shifts" on the Openreach price list.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

You prepared for the bill?

In reply to a post by yarwell:

there's a standard rate for moving wiring around in customer premises - relocation of BT lineplant - "Internal and External Shifts" on the Openreach price list.

If it means gaining an extra 1Mb/s then yes I am prepared to pay a fee. It depends on how much though! Low £hundreds maybe - but I'd want guaranteed benefits for that.

Do BTOR have any obligation to improve wiring for broadband? One hears stories about government missions to provide everyone with at least 2Mb/s by such-a-date, or some-such. Are these just stories? Do BT not have any QOS obligations that I can draw upon?

Can I ask for a proper survey and quote for makeing things better?

In reply to a post by b4dger:

Are you able to take a look at what one of your neighbours line stats are like?

If one of the offices has an NTE5 where the wiring hasn't gone past the 'noisy' route you describe you could check their attenuation etc.

But as your line looks like a long one there may not be much improvement...

Unfortunately few if any useful stats available. Nearest business with bb is a long way from me and four floors up. I do know a quick and dirty speedtest on the plusnet checker showed them to have 512/256kb/s. Most of the business residents here are council and they use a dedicated fibre link to the building. It seems my local council recognise the importance of broadband comms for its employees but not for the sole traders/small businesses that it supposedly supports with its "local enterprise park". I've discussed the matter with the council's "small business IT advisor" who by chance is also located in this building. His response was to let him know if I find out anything (!).

One feels like such a small quiet voice in these matters.


To be clear, this building is owned by the Council. The corridor I speak of is theirs, not my rented space etc. I just rent a bare room in this place.

I would welcome any advice on what I can do in this situation

Do BT not have any QOS obligations that I can draw upon?

Yes, 28kilo bits per second is the only obligation.

You are hearing about a USC, which has yet to be defined, line capable of 2Meg to virtually everyone (you might be in the 0.1% not part of it)

What are the correct full stats from the line?

Rather than 'about 500kb/sec' which is ambigous in its units?

500Kbps exactly suggests a fixed profile from TalkTalk, and at 69dB you are in the area any broadband is a bonus. WIth such a high attenuation, if you had noise from the mains as an issue I'd be expecting it to not work for periods of the day.

One hears stories about government missions to provide everyone with at least 2Mb/s by such-a-date, or some-such. Are these just stories? Do BT not have any QOS obligations that I can draw upon?

Yes, these are just stories, it won't be a rigid USO as is the case for simple voice telephony, and it already looks like nothing more than an expensive 2 x 1mbps BET will come from this in your case, or perhaps a wireless solution, none of it before the 2012.

Have you considered renting an office space in an appropriate business park? There may be a few around which can offer more up-to-date, e.g. non BT-based, telecom services as part of the office accommodation package.

To say none from the USC by 2012 undermines any thing else you have to say, they are aiming for USC complete for 2012 (whether 1st Jan 2012 or 31st Dec 2012 is unknown), but given coverage at 2Mbps is possible now if people are given subsidies it is just a case of splitting up the £200m

The USC while not great is better than nothing - or do you disagree?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

What are the correct full stats from the line?

Rather than 'about 500kb/sec' which is ambigous in its units?

500Kbps exactly suggests a fixed profile from TalkTalk, and at 69dB you are in the area any broadband is a bonus. WIth such a high attenuation, if you had noise from the mains as an issue I'd be expecting it to not work for periods of the day.

I'm not at my router today so can't supply exact current figures. A reboot of the router will bring slightly different ul/dl sync speeds. The highest download speed I have seen is just a few over 700kb/s, the lowest is in 4hundreds. Upload has been between upper hundreds and just below 700kb/s (I'm on "upto 1Mb/s upload - main reason for going with Opal). the figures have varied more than they should due o Opal fiddling with settings over the past week couple of weeks. I do not believe I am on a fixed speed profile. Currently the up and down speeds are in the 600's.

Attenuation has varied between 67 to 69dB
SNR margin has is about 6.5dB for both up and down (from memory) this has been fiddled with by Opal to try and get more speed. They tried to switching off interleaving but this actually reduced my speeds to the low 400's. I think they switched it back on.

Thats the best I can do form memory.

One significant point I've noted is the connection is always very stable. I leave the router switched on and I've never seen a single disconnect-reconnect in the logs.

I must make it clear that my point about the wiring is really only a guessed observation from my point of view. Its difficult to see exactly how that corridor is wired up - there is a lot cabling up there. It just occurs to me there could 300m of cable from my office before it even gets to outside, let alone the green cabinet. Having just re-wried my own house with cat5e, I've experienced how much these things can affect the broadband and that was only 20m or so of cable.

To complete my picture the postcode is LL14 4EG and my exchange is Wrexham (WNWX)

The area is far from "remote rural". I could walk to the town centre at a push (though to be honest I struggle to walk to my local pub 200yrds up the road these days due to cantbearsed syndrome but thats beside the point).

In reply to a post by JNeuhoff:

Have you considered renting an office space in an appropriate business park? There may be a few around which can offer more up-to-date, e.g. non BT-based, telecom services as part of the office accommodation package.

I knew the space would be poor broadband but not this bad I was quoted "maybe a meg and a half or so" by someone whos word wouldnt count in any disbutes etc. A move could well be the only way but seeing as I've just spent 2 or 3 months setting this place up I'm loathed to move now. Its an audio production room with clever acoustic treatment - its not just a case of moving a couple PCs and desks to a new premises!

Its funny how the details of broadband possibilities are not provided by the Council to potential tenants isn't it! I strongly believe broadband should be detailed on all properties up for rent or sale - especially for business users.

I'd better stop before I get ranting proper

On a positive note, I can email.

(and before anybody suggests it, there is no 3G coverage in the building - you're lucky if you can get a mobile phone signal at all here. its O2 only)

Thanks very much for your contributions BTW