Orange gives it up to BT...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/16/orange_bundl...

Haven't seen it as an item in other posts yet.. but thought it was an interesting read.

Duh! Was gonna renew to 20 Meg LLU on 24th April.

Guess, O2 here I come.

Don't forget the cashbacks!

Let me get this straight. Does this deal mean that Orange's LLU lines become IPStream and subject to an IP Profile, even on 20 Meg packages?

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Let me get this straight. Does this deal mean that Orange's LLU lines become IPStream and subject to an IP Profile, even on 20 Meg packages?

I reckon so, in a fairly short timescale.

Though technically IPStream is ADSL Max in BT-speak. ADSL2+ (21CN) is WBC or WBMC. My website has a page about WBC/WBMC, and the IP Profile page has a table that covers it.

The IP Profile itself isn't really a major drawback. It reduces the download speed for any given sync, but that reduction caters for a large proportion of the inescapable overheads of TCP/IP and ATM. I believe these are 13% to 18%.

The problem with the BT profiling system isn't that it exists, it is the time lag for an upward adjustment after a low sync event. On O2/Be (all LLU?) the full 84% is available immediately you reconnect at a higher speed.

On O2/Be LLU we expect to get (24/7!) between 83% and 84% of sync as speed test download results. The percentage loss due to IP Profile depends of course on whether your sync is at the bottom of the range for your profile (good), or the top (poor).

I expect, but don't know, that other LLU ISPs have the same maximum download percentage. Their available download may be different. There is also the possibility that the default sync-time noise margin may be higher on them. O2/Be use 6dB like BT. I'm fairly sure TalkTalk used to use 9dB though maybe that has changed to 6dB. A neighbour was on 12dB on Tiscali by the time he called me across so I can't be sure, as he had reconnected several times in the first hour or so because he couldn't get his wireless connection to work.

You can speak re Orange.

I think C & W as sold by several resellers here defaults to 9dB as well.

Similar things with the sync-time noise margin. After the initial 2-3 day training on O2/Be that's it! It only alters if you wish it to do so. No rise because you were at work, the router was on, and there was a thunderstorm causing many reconnections. In my case I have had several days when BT engineers were working in the cabinet and I got many 10's per hour of reconnections over several hours. Effect when they stopped? Zilch!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The problem with the BT profiling system isn't that it exists, it is the time lag for an upward adjustment after a low sync event. On O2/Be (all LLU?) the full 84% is available immediately you reconnect at a higher speed.

I'm not sure I've ever had a low sync event. How would I recognise one? I don't think my router has ever dropped out. About a year or two ago, I had a couple of disconnections for a few hours, but I'm pretty sure it was at the Orange end, not the router.

On Orange LLU I consistently get about 83% of Sync.

So Orange run like O2 then. What is your typical noise margin though?

I can't imagine BT will leave the LLU system running, but who knows?

My main reasons for disconnection are thunderstorms or excessive noise margin manipulation to get higher day-time speeds. if I just left things alone the only causes would be the thunderstorms and engineer activity at the cabinet.

I always imagined all LLU run much the same.

NM = 23 dB, but it is pushed up to damp down my Sync to 8 meg capped. Was 6.5 dB when I was on O2 (both 8 Meg & 16 Meg LLU) using O2 router, but different routers report different NMs on same line; Orange router reported 17 dB on O2 8 Meg LLU. Remember my experiment: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/3704723-r... ?

Was planning to upgrade to 20 Meg later this month, before I heard this bad news (maybe!).

Yep, I keep forgetting the experiment though.

Running a noise margin of 23dB it sn't surprising you don't get drop-outs even in thunderstorms.

have been reading -(orange gives it up to BT comments) The technical jargon is a wee bit beyond me but thought i would ask this question. My download speed is a steady 2.5 - 3.5 mb. Since I read about Bt takeover my speed is 1.3 download. I know it's early on but is this connected in any way?