contention

I am not able to get more than 2mb download speed for my wireless broadband due to the distance from my local exchange. At peak times, with BT total broadband option 3, the speed seems to stay much the same.

If I move to o2 all rounder or Plusnet Extra am I likely to get reduced speed at peak times? I read that o2 is now severely restricting p2p downloads (I use it occasionally for football matches).

First thing, if the speed is low using wireless, it may be the wireless part in your home thats slow. Therefore check by connecting to the home hub using an Ethernet cable (it should have come with one).

Without any firm examples from users its hard to know whether a restriction will be worse on one ISP.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/i/4373.html shows All Rounder as having a cap of 100 to 250Kilo bits per second. Plusnet should have something on its website somewhere too.

Do you mean you download files for the football, or you stream them? The O2 streaming cap on All Rounder is 8Mbps. You can see the table if you go to www.o2.co.uk and navigate to Broadband Help >> Setup & Technical >> Traffic Management >> What are the technical details.

Also - here's the Plusnet Extra table mentioned by MrSaffron.

Please can you see if you can post your line stats from the BT Hub? See here for help.

Thanks for your reply. I have now been able to find information from o2 - you have given me the net address I needed - and Plusnet Extra. Before your reply I did not know that such information existed.

I have so far failed to find comparable information from BT but will keep searching.

Thanks again.

My current speed is about 2mb using wireless broadband which is the maximum for my connection according to various sources so I'll just stick with wireless broadband.

As far as I know, there is no comparable info from BT on its products...its down to users saying what they actually get

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

My current speed is about 2mb using wireless broadband which is the maximum for my connection according to various sources so I'll just stick with wireless broadband.

You don't really have wireless broadband! What you have is ADSL BB down your phone line with, presumably, a private wireless network within your home.

It could well be that your local wireless is limiting your speeds. Post your router stats as RobertoS suggested.

The previous poster XRaySpeX seems to be correct - I have ADSL down a phone line with wireless connections in our home. Sam Knows and BT claim the speed on my line is a max of 2mb.

I have just been looking at alternatives to BT which might be cheaper and at least as reliable - my 12 month contract is due to be renewed. PLusnet Extra and o2 seemed to be cheaper and reasonably reliable but I wanted to check on speeds as I had read somewhere that o2 were restricting speeds significantly and this forum has shown me the source of that information. I at times use p2p to watch live football matches so I was interested to see the speeds being offered by o2 and Plusnet Extra.

I was a bit worried this discussion might get technical - I don't know how to get the details from our HomeHub and the net addresses offered don't seem to be helping me to find them.

I have registered as "oldperson" rather than remaining anonymous.

Try the following link

http://192.168.1.254/cgi/b/dsl/dt/?ce=1&be=0&l0=1&l1=0

If using a BT Home Hub that should take you to the page of stats.
Default user: "admin" password:"admin"
Password could also be the 11 digit serial number of your Hub. This S/N should be on a label on the Hub.

Watching live football matches is not P2P! It is streaming and is treated totally differently.

When I input the address suggested by Mr Saffron I get page not found.

The reason for using this general broadband chatter forum is that I don't have technical knowledge of broadband. I use the myp2p website to pick up live football via sopcast. I thought that was using p2p!

In reply to a post by oldperson:

I use the myp2p website to pick up live football via sopcast. I thought that was using p2p!

So do Sopcast

SopCast - Free P2P internet TV | live football, NBA, cricket

In reply to a post by oldperson:

The previous poster XRaySpeX seems to be correct - I have ADSL down a phone line with wireless connections in our home.

Don't forget that wireless networking (WiFi) is radio, and if your neighbours happen to be using the same frequency (channel) then the effect is really slow speeds.

If using a windows PC, installing inSSIDer is a good way to tell what other wireless networks are around: http://www.metageek.net/products/inssider

Sam Knows and BT claim the speed on my line is a max of 2mb.

Those are just guesses but the best information comes from your router itself; if you can get those stats and post them, estimates can be given as to what your line is actually capable of (rather than BT or Sam's best guess)

In reply to a post by oldperson:

When I input the address suggested by Mr Saffron I get page not found.

Try here.

In reply to a post by oldperson:

I use the myp2p website to pick up live football via sopcast. I thought that was using p2p!

Ah - a complication I wasn't aware of .

"SoP is the abbreviation for Streaming over P2P. Sopcast is a Streaming Direct Broadcasting System based on P2P."

Not sure how they achieve that live, perhaps that's what they mean by "minimal delay". It isn't what is normally called streaming.

So yes, you seem to be using P2P (but in a very strange way) so O2 would not like you. Your best solution would be one of the Be products. The same network as O2 but without the restrictions.

I did wonder if the OP was referring to SopCast

Have just been told by BE's site that they can't connect me to their system. It may be possible if they install a different line (they would check) but I am not keen as I use 18185 with my BT line and am not sure if BE would support that; there would also be the cost of installing the new line.

I still can't get the stats from my HomeHub. When I get the chance, I'll see if I can find a way to get them.

Why? Be (& O2) will only offer BB on existing lines if you already have a BT line. You may then choose optionally to take their phone service too.

I have checked and discovered my local exchange is not LLU enabled for o2 or Be.

Others network connections near me are to SKY and BT Openzone - I can sometimes see these when I look at available connections..

The fact that you can see a wireless network called Sky does not guarantee their LLU availability, since Sky will use BT Wholesale network in areas without their own network.

Was sky llu listed as available? The Sky website when checking your phone number will confirm availability, by the nature of the products it offers you, i.e. Sky Connect (to be avoided) is a lot more expensive than their LLU counterparts

In reply to a post by oldperson:

I have checked and discovered my local exchange is not LLU enabled for o2 or Be.

And what has that to do with your phone line and the need to install a different one? That's a property of your exchange, not line. What exchange are you on?

Others network connections near me are to SKY and BT Openzone - I can sometimes see these when I look at available connections..

Do you mean other peoples' wireless networks that your picking up, it could be a signal from say a neighbour's router?

Edit > which exchange is the line connected to?

Edited by Apprentice (Thu 21-Oct-10 15:35:37)

Sam Knows says our exchange (Wellington, Shropshire) has SKY LLU. SKY reckon I could have SKY Broadband Unlimited.

I sometimes see SKY or BT Openzone when I click on the small network icon at the bottom of the screen but I can't pick them up; presumably they are security protected.

More likely too weak, otherwise it would invite you to provide passkey.

You also have TT, AOL and C&W LLU don't you?

What is the amount you are happy to pay per month for a BB connection?

Don't go near O₂ as you can't get any of their LLU based packages from your exchange.

As your exchange is classed as market 3 then Plusnet products (BT IPstream based not LLU) would be cheap to use each month but they Traffic Manage their network which would slowdown any p2p use.

Do you have Sky TV as you can get Sky Broadband LLU packages without having to subscribe to Sky TV.

There are also reseller ISPs like Xilo/Uno and Vivaciti who can supply LLU based packages using the C&W network.

Don't know what I would pay? I can get BT Total Broadband option 3 for £20 a month and I've been reasonably happy although occasionally we lose our connection and have to restart to get it back. I had been considering o2 and Plusnet extra but, given what I now know about their p2p policy since coming on this site, I will not move to either of those networks.

I have SKY TV and my son, who does not live here, uses SKY broadband but he has found recently that his download speed for p2p football matches has been poor - I wonder if SKY is deliberately slowing them down given that they might not want people watching football without paying to view?

I have at last managed to find some stats which may help someone to point me in the direction of better performance of my internet connection - I'm not sure what is and is not relevant so here goes:

VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.1
Latency Type Interleaved
Noise Margin (Down/UP) 12.8 db/16.0 db
Line Atenuation " 53.0 db/31.5 db
Output Power " 17.8 db/12.3 db

Additional information from my ADSL settings (see previous post for main stats):

Loss of Framing (local) 18
Loss of Signal (local) 3
Loss of Power 0
FEC Errors (Down/up) 108423
CRC Errors " 4528/2147480000
HEC Errors nil/0
Error Seconds 5

The connection time was 6 hours:28:56

That huge CRC figure is nothing to worry about - it is a reporting error in the router firmware.

The rest of the stats require a re-read of the thread to see what the problem is, and being very tired and red wine happy it wouldn't be a good time for me to do that.

Tomorrow!

You've omitted the most important figures; what speeds does the router say it is connecting at? Post the whole set again with these that they apply at that moment.

Still missing the all important connection speed values, usually have the units Kbps

Would expect this to be around 4000Kbps on your line. O2 all rounder and Plusnet will connect at similar speeds.

What may be happening is that the line is not totally stable, the hint in is the 12dB noise margin figure, can you check this figure over the next day or so, at night and during daylight. How much does it vary by? 2-3dB variation is normal, 6dB or more suggests a wiring issue

I'm struggling to find the information you have asked for - I've only just discovered how to get any of my internet statistics.

I have found "actual data transfer speed 36mpbs"; I hope that is the figure you need.

The rest of the statistics I sent in my previous two posts are almost unchanged: the only notable changes being "noise margin (down/up) 15.5db/16db"; "loss of framing 21"; "loss of signal 4"; "FEC errors 57869/2"; "CRC Errors "2048/2147480000"; and "Error Seconds (local) 2863".

Recently when I have used Speedtest on different days I have had 1.94mbs download and 0.38 upload on both occasions.

Afraid that isn't the speed figure either. Somewhere similar to where you got the other stats (such as the noise margin) there should be 2 figures that probably say something like "Downstream speed 2152Kbps, Upstream 484Kbps" or similar. Those are the numbers we need to be able to put those others in perspective.

Thanks Ian72.

The downstream is 2464 kbps
and
the upstream is 448 kbps.

Me? You should be addressing this to OP. I already told him this in the post you are replying to.

You should follow your own advice to BatBoy recently to follow the thread more closely.

Please also post your results from http://speedtester.bt.com/

Helpful if you copy & paste your full router stats en bloc, so we see them all together in context.

I hope this gives the details:

http://192.168.1.254/bb_dsl.lp?be=1&l0=2&l1=2&l2=1&dt=1

I will close down all sites and attempt to use the BT speedtester (I haven't used that speedtester before).

I'm struggling to work out how to copy the BT speedtest results. I hope this is what is needed



FAQ


Test1 comprises of two tests

1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
1609 Kbps

0 Kbps 2000 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 1609 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 800-2000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :2464 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 2000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 11.9:26.65:61.46 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
335 Kbps

0 Kbps 448 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

>Upload speed achieved during the test was - 335 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 448 Kbps


We were unable to identify any performance problem with your service at this time.
It is possible that any problem you are currently, or had previously experienced may have been caused by traffic congestion on the Internet or by the server you were accessing responding slowly.
If you continue to encounter a problem with a specific server, please contact the administrator of that server in the first instance.

Please visit FAQ section if you are unable To understand the test results.






Notes:
The Download Speed is the average rate that was achieved during this test.

Notes:
Your line is configured to the maximum rate that it can support or at your chosen fixed rate, this is known as the line rate and would be viewed through your CPE software or in your router configuration.

Your IP profile is always less than the line rate and is normal on any network.

The Upstream Test rate figure quoted will always be smaller than the assured rate profile. This is because in order for the throughput to reach its destination, it requires an overhead which explains the difference between the two.


Notes:
If your download speed lies in this range then your connection seems to be working fine.

Notes:
The Download Speed is the average rate that was achieved during this test.

Notes:
Your line is configured to the maximum rate that it can support or at your chosen fixed rate, this is known as the line rate and would be viewed through your CPE software or in your router configuration.

Your IP profile is always less than the line rate and is normal on any network.

In reply to a post by oldperson:

http://192.168.1.254/bb_dsl.lp?be=1&l0=2&l1=2&l2=1&dt=1

I'm afraid you hope wrong! I can't do that! You have given me a link to your private local network which I cannot access. From my POV it is just an IP into my local network.

It is simplest if you just copy & paste en bloc.

This is a learning curve for me. I hope again that his works.

ADSLVPNDynamic DNSADSL line status
Connection information
Line state Connected
Connection time 0 days, 16:04:31
Downstream 2,464 Kbps
Upstream 448 Kbps


ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.1
Latency type Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up) 15.8 dB / 16.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 53.0 dB / 31.5 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 17.4 dBm / 12.3 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local) 21
Loss of Signal (Local) 4
Loss of Power (Local) 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 444287 / 2
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 5595 / 2147480000
HEC Errors (Down/Up) nil / 0
Error Seconds (Local) 3373

Hide Details

Whilst the speedtest isn't superb it's not that far off for the connection and IP Profile. You could possibly squeeze a little more out using Sky LLU but any other ISP is likely to give you similar overall performance at best. Plusnet may well see you getting slower speeds on some things and O2 is a non-starter as you don't have their LLU available.

Personally I would say your only hope of faster at this point is Sky and that will only give a max of about 2200 Kbps if you are really lucky. Sorry, but I think your options are limited.

Can you try powering the router off and back on and pasting those same statistics as soon as the router comes back on line? This would tell us what your router is capable of at first connection - it would be especially useful to do this twice - once after dark and again at about 10am or after (the differences between dark and daylight hours can be quite significant).

It is possible that given the high noise margin you have it may be that you could actually get double the speed from Sky and that it is the BT profile system that is slowing you down.

In reply to a post by oldperson:

BT speedtester (I haven't used that speedtester before).

The main point of this speedtester over all others, when you are on IPStream/ ADSL Max as you are, is that it gives your IP Profile, which is BT's DLM ceiling on your actual download speed, thus:

IP Profile for your line is - 2000 Kbps

The useful section that we wanted is the "1. Best Effort Test".

Your line should be capable of about 4 Meg Sync but you are only getting about half that. Your D/S NM is high which could indicate your line is noisy. Time to look at your wiring.

Have you removed the ring wire? Plugged into hidden test socket? Filters? ...

That's just great! Exactly what we needed. Continue that way when you post stats.

In reply to a post by ian72:

it is the BT profile system that is slowing you down.

No, the IP Profile is dependant on the Sync Speed and it is that that is too slow by half. More likely due to noise on line.

Yes. But, it could be that the router during the day can sync at 4Mb+. But, if it resets then at night to 2Mb then the profile will lower and stay that way for days. By avoiding the profile on LLU the user could reset the router of a morning and get 4Mb during the day whilst getting a lower speed at night.

Therefore, it is the BT profile system that is slowing the OP down (probably).

In reply to a post by ian72:

Yes. But, it could be that the router during the day can sync at 4Mb+. But, if it resets then at night to 2Mb then the profile will lower and stay that way for days. By avoiding the profile on LLU the user could reset the router of a morning and get 4Mb during the day whilst getting a lower speed at night.

Therefore, it is the BT profile system that is slowing the OP down (probably).

No.

The sync-time noise margin is what is slowing him down, as the IP Profile is right for the sync. The sync is too low.

You would be correct if the profile were too low, for the reasons you give.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by ian72:

Yes. But, it could be that the router during the day can sync at 4Mb+. But, if it resets then at night to 2Mb then the profile will lower and stay that way for days. By avoiding the profile on LLU the user could reset the router of a morning and get 4Mb during the day whilst getting a lower speed at night.

Therefore, it is the BT profile system that is slowing the OP down (probably).

No.

The sync-time noise margin is what is slowing him down, as the IP Profile is right for the sync. The sync is too low.

You would be correct if the profile were too low, for the reasons you give.

Not quite sure what is going on here. The sync had occurred 16 hours before the post - so during nighttime hours (I believe). Therefore the SNR at a resync could be significantly lower than the current 16dBs. It may even be a 6dB SNR with a wild variation between day and night.

This is the main reason I asked for a daytime resync with stats straight after - it would tell us the maximum speed the line is capable of and the target SNR.

Therefore I still stand by what I said - it could be the profile that is causing the slow speeds due to low nighttime syncs which could be got around with sky as you could then reset the router each morning to get max speeds for the daylight hours.

About 18 months ago I was having terrible trouble getting any broadband service - speedtest (not the BT version) - was giving my download speed as 0.5mb or lower and I was losing the service completely frequently.

I got an Openreach engineer to investigate and do some tests but he worked locally and knew immediately that the main problem was the line distance to the exchange and his statistics confirmed this. He rerouted my line but I think it must still be about 3 km. He also replaced my main socket and checked that the wiring appeared to be fine. I think I then got over 3mb speed for a while before it returned to about 2mb, perhaps because more houses have been built in the area and there is more contention.

My next door neighbour has SKY and he says he has very poor speed (unfortunately I don't know the actual speed) although the service never goes down. BT told him his line would not support BT Vision. I suspect he has the length of line I used to have and there is now no capacity to offer him a shorter line to the exchange.

I will try about 5pm to get the statistics again from my BTHub (after disconnecting and reconnecting) as soon after I will not be the only one using our Hub.

What I am hoping from the help I am being given on this site is to see if I (or BT) can do anything to improve the speed of my internet service or should I go over to SKY in the hope that they will offer a better service.

The latest figures from the Hub at 16.30 approx are:

ADSL line status
Connection information
Line state Connected
Connection time 0 days, 0:02:49
Downstream 2,656 Kbps
Upstream 448 Kbps


ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.1
Latency type Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up) 15.1 dB / 16.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 53.0 dB / 31.5 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 17.8 dBm / 12.3 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local) 0
Loss of Signal (Local) 0
Loss of Power (Local) 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 17 / 0
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 0 / 2147480000
HEC Errors (Down/Up) nil / 0
Error Seconds (Local) 0

I will send these the close this site and get the bt speedtest results

Hide Details

The latest speed test from BT at about 16.45 is:

FAQ


Test1 comprises of two tests

1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
1871 Kbps

0 Kbps 2000 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 1871 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 800-2000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :2656 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 2000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 22.78:29.57:47.65 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
332 Kbps

0 Kbps 448 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

>Upload speed achieved during the test was - 332 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 448 Kbps


We were unable to identify any performance problem with your service at this time.
It is possible that any problem you are currently, or had previously experienced may have been caused by traffic congestion on the Internet or by the server you were accessing responding slowly.
If you continue to encounter a problem with a specific server, please contact the administrator of that server in the first instance.

Please visit FAQ section if you are unable To understand the test results.

Right!

From the stats we can see that your sync-time margin is 15dB. The normal figure is 6dB. Sometimes it needs to be set to 9dB on lines with wide noise variation, but 12dB or 15dB usually means there has been a problem in the past or a current fault is preventing it lowering automatically. See my Noise Margin and High SNRM pages.

With a normal noise margin you should connect at 5Mbps or more. So this is a long-standing problem possibly from before that engineer redid the line.

Probably the first thing to do is to get BT to reset your Noise Margin. (Which causes a new 10-day training period). Then see what happens afterwards.

If you read the stats again as late as possible tonight, so we can see how much the noise margin has fallen, that will give us a very useful indicator of whether you should ask them to do that.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 26-Oct-10 18:00:05)

I will try about 5pm to get the statistics again from my BTHub (after disconnecting and reconnecting)

What exactly do you mean by disconnecting and reconnecting as too much of that will cause your downstream noise margin to increase.
The ideal default figure for the downstream noise margin is 6dB when you took the stats it was 15.8dB so you a losing around 1500Kbps-2000Kbps in downstream sync rate.

Can you connect the router to the TEST socket (if it isn't already) within the master BT/Openreach socket, shown here and here in order to get a new set of line stats?
Connecting to the TEST socket (if wired correctly) helps to eliminate any issues with extension wiring in the house.

I have now connected to the TEST socket and the stats are:

InternetADSLVPNDynamic DNSADSL line status
Connection information
Line state Connected
Connection time 0 days, 0:08:28
Downstream 2,560 Kbps
Upstream 448 Kbps


ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.1
Latency type Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up) 14.6 dB / 16.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 53.0 dB / 31.5 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 17.8 dBm / 12.3 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local) 0
Loss of Signal (Local) 0
Loss of Power (Local) 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 203 / 0
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 0 / 2147480000
HEC Errors (Down/Up) nil / 0
Error Seconds (Local) 0

Hide Details
And the stats look pretty much unchanged.

In reply to a post by ian72:

But, it could be that the router during the day can sync at 4Mb+. But, if it resets then at night to 2Mb

That's a tremendous 2 Meg drop overnight. My line drops max of 0.5 Meg overnight. Anyway we have no evidence that OP can get 4 Meg in daylight. Still think it is noise on line.

the speed test on the line:


Test1 comprises of two tests

1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
1626 Kbps

0 Kbps 2000 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 1626 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 800-2000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :2560 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 2000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 11.95:21.57:66.48 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
347 Kbps

0 Kbps 448 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

> When I disconnected and connected earlier I took the plug leading to the hub out of the socket.

My connections from the modern BT socket are:
1 a filter with one wire direct to the internet hub and

2 a connector with a wire to the SKY Box as part of it -

3 another connector (which goes into connector 2) which has a wire to the phone and an external connection wire leading to 3 connected diy upstairs extensions

In reply to a post by oldperson:

as soon after I will not be the only one using our Hub.

Doesn't matter how many are connecting to router. Only interested in how fast the router itself connects to exchange.

2 a connector with a wire to the SKY Box as part of it

You need to put a filter on the SKY box as it can create noise on the line.

In reply to a post by oldperson:

My connections from the modern BT socket are:
1 a filter with one wire direct to the internet hub and

2 a connector with a wire to the SKY Box as part of it -

3 another connector (which goes into connector 2) which has a wire to the phone and an external connection wire leading to 3 connected diy upstairs extensions

Hope you removed 2 & 3 when you tested from test socket.

Not impressed by the DIY 3 x extensions. Recommend a (cheapish) multi DECT cordless system.

The stats are minutely better but the downstream noise margin of 14.6dB via the TEST socket indicates that BT's exchange equipment has incresed the figure in the hope of keeping the connection stable due to the line picking up noise.

The connector, which has the SKY Box wire, is connected directly to the filter. The wire going to the SKY Box goes into a single phone type connector which has a wire which goes into the back of the SKY Box.

Do I need a second filter? which would go into the phone type connector which has a wire to the SKY Box?

In reply to a post by oldperson:

My connections from the modern BT socket are:
1 a filter with one wire direct to the internet hub and

2 a connector with a wire to the SKY Box as part of it -

3 another connector (which goes into connector 2) which has a wire to the phone and an external connection wire leading to 3 connected diy upstairs extensions

I don't quit follow that. You seem to have three connections to two sockets.

If you have a faceplate with two sockets, what is plugged into the ADSL socket and what is plugged into the phone socket?

If you just have a single socket then I assume you have a dangly filter. So just as above, what is plugged into each of the dangly filter outlets?

Are you saying you are using splitter plugs and free-standing extension cables? That is a recipe for the sort of problem you have.

Should be OK going through the phone side of one filter, but it is worth checking with the Sky box unplugged, as rare (but worth mentioning) that some people have had problems with them, in which case adding a second filter to the sky box can help.

I have a faceplate with a single socket.

Into that single socket is plugged an ADSL filter with 2 outputs:
one with a wire direct to the Hub;

the second output has a socket plugged into it which has a hard wire connection to the SKY Box (via a single connector just before it enters the SKY Box).

Into the socket used for the SKY Box wire connection there is another socket which has 2 outputs - one the wire to the phone, the second is a hard wired wire leading to the extensions.

Summary: there is a single socket, then an ADSL filter, then another connector (to the SKY Box), then another connector with the phone and extensions' wire.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Are you saying you are using splitter plugs and free-standing extension cables? That is a recipe for the sort of problem you have.

Don't think the splitter is a problem. I have always had a splitter on the phone side of the filter, leading to a phone and my PC's (fax) modem. It's the DIY 3 x phone extension that worries me.

In reply to a post by oldperson:

the second output (of the filter) has a socket plugged into it

Would you say that the socket of this post = the connector of your previous post = what most people would call a (2-way) splitter?

Yes, I was referring to the whole setup. I too used to use a 3-way splitter, at one time I think a 4-way. It just has to be used correctly and the poster's setup looks decidely dodgy with the various cables around.

I've even had dial-up and broadband in use simultaneously. Subject to only having two hands to type with.

There's a lot of noise getting onto the OP's line as a result.

Nope. Can't picture it. But overall it is bad because of the extension cables if nothing else.

Are you talking aboout this kind of thing? If so, what does it plug into and what plugs into it?

What is the single connector near the Sky box?

What do you mean by a hard wire connection to the SKY Box? The only thing that seems to be hard-wired is the back section of the master socket. Everything else is plug-in. Or do you mean there is a plug into the phone socket of the filter and that plug has an extra socket and you have a 2-way splitter into that?

"Into the socket used for the SKY Box wire connection" - where is this? At the master socket end or at the Sky box end?

Any chance of uploading a photo or photos?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Can't picture it.

Pretty sure he means:

Master Socket -> Filter -> Router Cable + Doubler -> SKY Cable + Doubler -> Phone Cable + Phone Extension Cable leading to 3 remote phone extension sockets.

"hard wire connection to the SKY Box" = an extension phone cable leading to a extension phone socket ("via a single connector just before it enters") near the SKY Box.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Can't picture it.

Pretty sure he means:

Master Socket -> Filter -> Router Cable + Doubler -> SKY Cable + Doubler -> Phone Cable + Phone Extension Cable leading to 3 remote phone extension sockets.

"hard wire connection to the SKY Box" = an extension phone cable leading to a extension phone socket ("via a single connector just before it enters") near the SKY Box.

Then what's causing all the noise on the line?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Then what's causing all the noise on the line?

That is!

I was assuming you had connected the router directly into the TEST socket is that correct?
OR
Have you just connected the extension wiring etc etc into the TEST socket?

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Then what's causing all the noise on the line?

That is!

What is?

Most extension cables have a ring wire and the noise from that would get through the setup described. Only a filtered faceplate or iPlate would stop it, as they have ring wire filtering built in. (That being almost the sole purplose of the iPlate of course).

If the cable is also a cheapo it will not be twisted pair and so pick up noise that way as well.

It sounds stupid but for some reason I can't copy and paste the photos I've taken of the connections into this forum. I'm still trying to see if I can find a way round this!

What I've connected into the Test output until now is the ADSL filter with the other two connectors attached. I'll try putting the internet (Hub) connector straight into the TEST output and I won't attach the other connectors and then we'll see what the noise level is.

The main socket should be fine as I had an iplate before the Openreach engineer replaced the main phone socket: he reckoned the new socket no longer needed an iplate as the modern socket eliminated the need for it. He did not point out a problem with the other connectors although he may have thought that was not his job as he just had to get me a better, shorter connection to the exchange.

In reply to a post by oldperson:

It sounds stupid but for some reason I can't copy and paste the photos I've taken of the connections into this forum. I'm still trying to see if I can find a way round this!

You have to put them on a hosting site and paste a link to them here. Like http://share.pho.to/

In reply to a post by oldperson:

I'll try putting the internet (Hub) connector straight into the TEST output

You still need the filter in between. The router's ADSL connector doesn't fit the Test Socket's phone socket.

These are stats obtained about a minute ago (23.20) using the TEST socket with only the adsl filter to which only the internet hub cable is attached; nothing else is attached:
Connection information
Line state Connected
Connection time 0 days, 0:01:37
Downstream 2,304 Kbps
Upstream 448 Kbps


ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.1
Latency type Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up) 15.5 dB / 16.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 53.0 dB / 31.5 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 17.4 dBm / 12.3 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local) 22
Loss of Signal (Local) 2
Loss of Power (Local) 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 0 / 2147480000
HEC Errors (Down/Up) nil / 0
Error Seconds (Local) 80

The noise shows no reduction.

http://share.pho.to/io7fQx

If you can use the above address then you'll see my connections - to the TEST socket as I've temporarily removed the faceplate.

There is the ADSL filter with the cable to the BT Hub

The connector below that has a cable to the SKY Box

The connector below that has a cable to the phone and a cable to the extensions

http://share.pho.to/x5L3RN

I've also attached a (poor) photo of the connector used by the SKY Box to connect the cable from the connector at the main house input socket. The white cable is from the connector at the main socket.

I'm now adding the BT speed test results. Only the internet hub is attached to the Test connection on the the main socket - nothing else [not phone or SKY Box or extensions] There are 2 or 3 web sites open. The test was run about 23.40

Test1 comprises of two tests

1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
1654 Kbps

0 Kbps 2000 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 1654 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 800-2000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :2304 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 2000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 18.88:25.08:56.04 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
330 Kbps

0 Kbps 448 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

>Upload speed achieved during the test was - 330 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 448 Kbps


We were unable to identify any performance problem with your service at this time.
It is possible that any problem you are currently, or had previously experienced may have been caused by traffic congestion on the Internet or by the server you were accessing responding slowly.
If you continue to encounter a problem with a specific server, please contact the administrator of that server in the first instance.

Please visit FAQ section if you are unable To understand the test results.

Have obtained the adsl stats just after turning on the computer this morning.

With only the adsl router connected to the test output on the main socket and only the cable attached to BT Hub
ie NO Sky Box, NO phone and NO extension connections - the download noise is 16.6 db at about 07.35


ADSL line status
Connection information
Line state Connected
Connection time 0 days, 8:18:22
Downstream 2,304 Kbps
Upstream 448 Kbps


ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.1
Latency type Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up) 16.6 dB / 16.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 53.0 dB / 31.5 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 17.4 dBm / 12.3 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local) 22
Loss of Signal (Local) 2
Loss of Power (Local) 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 13546 / 0
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 72 / 2147480000
HEC Errors (Down/Up) nil / 0
Error Seconds (Local) 126

Am I in the situation where I need to find someone in BT to talk to see if they can give an explanation of the noise figure?

It was supposition based on limited information. Turns out that the line may well be quite stable and it is the high target SNR that is stopping any faster syncs (although could still have some instability).

I have seen a 2Mb swing between day and night on my parents line. They can happily hold a 6Mb sync during the day but once night hits it resyncs regularly until it drops to about 4Mb. This I believe is primarily to do with it being overhead lines and not helped by the fact it passes by a number of trees that have overhanging branches.

Now that we have the stats from the sync immediately after a reset it is clear that the SNR is very high - it would still likely be bettered supported on LLU though as most LLU doesn't have the automated systems that kick in when the router resyncs.

You need to get your ISP to reset the target SNR. If they are any good they should be able to do that, but it may take a while to find someone in the call centre that is bright enough to sort it out. If you get it reset to 6dB (it is currently 15dB) then your sync will go up considerably.

It is possible that the high target SNR is due to previous problems on the line that have been fixed and no-one ever reset it.

However, it may make the line unstable if there are still any issues on it. If it is unstable then the BT automated systems should increase the target SNR until it is stable again (it does this in 3dB increments).

Yep ian . The OP seems not to have read where I said the same.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Yep ian . The OP seems not to have read where I said the same.

Indeed Hopefully they will give it a try soon.

You are confused about what the noise margin is. Note the word "margin" .

It is a figure set by the system at the moment you connect, to allow for variation in the actual background noise over 24 hours.

The background noise goes up at night so the margin falls. In the daytime the background is lower so the margin rises. Until you do a reconnect when it is set back to the system figure.

That system figure - the "target" noise margin - is what needs to be reset to 6dB. The stats taken after a reconnection were to let us see what it is, and the talk about cabling was to look for possible causes of high/variable background noise.

From what you have now, it looks like the variation with connections the way they are is small.

We now need you to put the connections back in place, with the faceplate replaced, and then monitor the noise margin a couple of times in the day and at night. Do not do further reconnections after putting things back together.

Have a read of my Noise margin and High SNRM pages for a fuller explanation.

Re the master faceplate, does it have a logo saying "Openreach"?

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 27-Oct-10 09:16:54)

Thanks for the advice. I have been reading your advice (and am grateful for it) but I have very little technical knowledge re lines, noise, resyncs etc.

What is exactly is a resync? (I have found RobertoS's site useful and I have learnt a lot but,as I say, the technical side of the internet is not my forte)

Until a few days ago we had been intermittently having trouble finding and keeping our internet connection (BTHomeHub2-C5R6) and it was not unusual to lose the connection and after disconnecting the Hub and restarting sometimes only other SKY and BT networks showed up but could not be connected to; for the past week or so the connection has been stable.

I will look at the stats again about 10am (to see if the daylight hours are better). Should I restart the Hub before doing so?

Should I restart the Hub before doing so?

If you have re-assembled the whole setup, back to normal, then no. Just check the stats. (By the way, all the garbage after the upstream results, about what to do and so on, is irrelevant, so you can miss that out of future posts ).

"Resync" . When your router connects to the exchange, which as you know takes a few seconds, the process going on is called synchronisation. It is a negotiation between the modem part of your router and the modem part of the exchange equipment (DSLAM or MSAN) to decide what speed to work at so as to go as fast as possible but avoid frequent disconnections.

So a reconnection, where you disconnect then connect, involves a sync (for short). In some setups it is possible to re-sync without fully disconnecting or turning off the router. So a re-sync and a reconnection are almost the same thing. A reconnection by definition includes a (re-)sync.

Until a few days ago we had been intermittently having trouble finding and keeping our internet connection

That's why the sync-time (target) margin has been raised to 15dB, to try to stabilise the connection. What happened to cure this? I got the impression the BT engineer was 18 months ago?

sometimes only other SKY and BT networks showed up but could not be connected to

That sounds like wireless networks, rather than wired through your router?

RobertoS thanks for your latest post which crossed with mine.

The faceplate does have Openreach on it.

I've had to disconnect from the hub to put the faceplate back and reconnect everything through the faceplate. The stats now are:

WirelessTelephonyBroadbandHome NetworkApplication SharingSystemBasic Settings
InternetADSLVPNDynamic DNSADSL line status
Connection information
Line state Connected
Connection time 0 days, 0:07:44
Downstream 2,784 Kbps
Upstream 448 Kbps


ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.1
Latency type Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up) 15.3 dB / 16.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 53.0 dB / 31.5 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 17.9 dBm / 12.3 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local) 56
Loss of Signal (Local) 5
Loss of Power (Local) 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 29 / 0
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 1 / 2147480000
HEC Errors (Down/Up) nil / 0
Error Seconds (Local) 148

Hide Details

Sorry for the delay but for some reason I can't do the BT speedtest. I key in the phone number and nothing is happening; I'll try soon as I haven't run a successful test on it today.

I don't know what has happened to stabilise our internet connection.

For some time there were up to 3 computers in use in our house - the one I'm using at the moment seemed to find it harder to connect but all 3 were occasionally having problems. The other 2 are laptops with built-in networking, this is a desktop with a network adapter.

For the past month or so only the desktop was in use and it had system software problems (Windows 7) and one day AVG reported some corruption of the internet adapter software but the intermittent problems predated these problems. There are no known problems with the desktop and its adapter now.

For the past week or so there have been no connection problems.

In the past when the engineer called the internet was unusable because of the speed and the fact that it would disappear completely at times. The engineer blamed it on the length of the connection and, as I've said, he managed to reroute the line. BT also gave us a HomeHub to eliminate the original router as something which might have been adding to our problems.

I assume the other networks that we can see at times are wireless networks in surrounding houses - I've confirmed my next door neighbour uses SKY.

Unfortunately I didn't know about noise stats etc until a couple of days ago so I never knew how much noise was on the line and I don't know if BT increased the margin recently or not

I have now (10.34) manged to get the BT speedtest results


0 Kbps 2000 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 1529 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 800-2000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :2784 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 2000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 13.12:23.81:63.07 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
352 Kbps

0 Kbps 448 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

>Upload speed achieved during the test was - 352 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 448 Kbps

The other networks are indeed neighbours internet connections which, like yours, have wireless routers to allow wireless PCs to connect to them.

It seems the reason your Internet is more stable now could be because it is connecting at a lower speed. It may be it just couldn't hold on at the higher speeds. It may be the 15dB "margin" we have been talking about is because your line was having problems. This is what the BT systems do when there are issues with a line. You may be able to get BT out to look but as an engineer has already said that the stability issues were due to the "high speed" then it is likely they will continue to use this excuse.

Firstly, try asking BT to reset the SNR margin to 6dB. This may result in the stability problems coming back again.

Second, you could move to Sky LLU which may allow you to get better speeds during the day despite any stability issues.

Third, you could move to someone like AAISP (Andrew's and Arnold's) who may be able to progress the stability problems better than BT can (BT as an ISP are not exactly top notch at getting problems fixed by the BT Openreach engineers).

Finally, you may just have to live with lower speeds as BT may decide that is all they can support on your line.

Edited by ian72 (Wed 27-Oct-10 10:38:26)

Interesting options. I won't be able to do anything about them today as I will soon have to shutdown the computer for a while. I'll check the stats later today.

The problem ultimately is I think the BT line - I think I was almost 6 km from the exchange (the line must have taken a tortuous route) before it was rerouted to about 3km. I would like to try to get a reason for the high noise margin.

You think SKY might allow better speeds; you mentioned this in an earlier post. How confident would you be in their performance? They are cheap.

The AAISP option is intriguing. The snag would be in trying to gauge the weekday usage. I like what they say about sorting out problems - do you have any experience of their service? They could be a bit more expensive but could be worth it if they deliver as promised.

No personal experience of AAISP but from what is said on here they seem to deliver (but generally more expensive than mainstream ISPs).

Sky have a good technical solution but their support is not necessarily that great (although probably no worse than BT). Can't guarantee it would give serious boosts but the technology has the best chance of giving some improvement (other than a fix to the underlying problem). However, it is only likely to be better during daylight hours, once it gets dark it may not be much better (although that is conjecture based on previous experience).

Really do think your first step is to try and get BT to fix it. If that takes more than a month of messing about then I'd be looking to move to one of the others.

In reply to a post by oldperson:

Interesting options. I won't be able to do anything about them today as I will soon have to shutdown the computer for a while. I'll check the stats later today.

The problem ultimately is I think the BT line - I think I was almost 6 km from the exchange (the line must have taken a tortuous route) before it was rerouted to about 3km. I would like to try to get a reason for the high noise margin.

Usually the noise margin gets raised to combat noise on the line. The noise on the line is usually a result of bad phone wiring at home, or having unfiltered phone devices on the line - like a sky box..

For information I tried the AAISP site with my phone number.

They pointed out the line can support ADSL of up to 2mb or ADSL2+ up to 2.5mb and that they would establish over a 10 day period what the highest supportable speed would be.

I assume SKY would offer much the same.

Aim to contact BT tomorrow re my line. Hopefully I'll have enough time to get involved with them on the phone as they find someone who can help.

The figures are usually based on what the line is currently synced at (they come from BT ultimately). So, even if your line could do more you won't generally see more than you currently have on any of the checkers.

3km is not a particularly long line, so stop worrying about that as a factor. As I said earlier, you have the potential to connect at 5Mbps or more if there isn't an unusual noise problem still present.

When you shut the computer down in future, please leave the router on. We want to be able to see what the noise margin does without re-sync's/reconnections, and shutting the computer down doesn't affect that.

The high noise margin is due to the problems you have been having - possibly long ago as well as recently. We want to see how it behaves now we think the problems have gone.

Re the Openreach faceplate, that is good. It means we can probably stop worrying about the ring wire in the extension cables. But there is still probably an issue if they are flat-type (non-twisted pair). I shall look back at the photos later to see if I can tell.

What ian is saying about Sky is that Sky LLU is not the same (BT Wholesale) ADSL system as you are on now, and does not have the BT DLM which is explained on my website.

So a migration to them would immediately lower your margin, (I think they default to 9dB), giving you more speed. If you then had a disconnection in the evening and it came back slower, then a reconnection by you in the morning would straight away take you back to full speed. This is one of the benefits of any LLU.

Beware though. If their LLU capacity at your exchange is full, then they would try to talk you into their BT Wholsale based Sky Connect service, perhaps with a promise of an upgrade later. Do not go that way. The service is very poor and the upgrade may never happen.

So your options are to get BT to get the margin reset, and take it from there, or assuming you are out of minimum term/contract with BT get your MAC and migrate to Sky LLU Unlimited .

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

The noise on the line is usually a result of bad phone wiring at home, or having unfiltered phone devices on the line - like a sky box.

I think you've hit on a good point here.

We have seen that the presence or absence of the OP's phone/Sky gubbins has made no significant diff to his stats, which seems to rule out any adverse effect from the phone/Sky stuff. However, those tests were carried out at particular moments when the OP was busy with the tests.

It is possible at other various times, like during a call on an upstairs extn. or a Sky download, that the noise on the line increased dramatically causing the NM to increase to 15 dB at which it has frozen ever since.

So before he asks BT to reduce the NM, it could worthwhile for the OP to do w/out the upstairs 3x extensions (or get DECT instead) and just manage with the main phone at the master.

Also does Sky box need to be connected to the phone all the time?

Thanks to all of you for your recent posts.

Before adding to the discussion I'll just point out that at 16.49 just after powering up the computer (the router was left on all day) the noise margin was 15.6db and the download 2784 kbps and the upload 448 kbps.
The stats from the BT speedtester were:

Test1 comprises of two tests

1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
1633 Kbps

0 Kbps 2000 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 1633 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 800-2000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :2784 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 2000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 16.81:25.46:57.73 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
353 Kbps

0 Kbps 448 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

>Upload speed achieved during the test was - 353 Kbps

I'm not keen on Dect phones and would only feel forced into them if there was definite proof that the present situation is causing a problem; it is a condition of having SKY tv that a working phone is connected to the SKY box (I'm out of contract, however, so they might not be willing to enforce it as they would lose a customer). I did try a different adsl filter this morning in case it was faulty but there was no noticeable difference on the noise margin level. The engineer who visited about 18 months ago saw the connections I have and did not advise me against them and he did seem to be going out of his way to be helpful.(I think he had a bit of bother setting up a new route for the line but he claimed it would make a big difference and it did.)

I'll leave the Hub (router) on when the computers (2 of them) shutdown tonight and I'll check the stats tonight and tomorrow morning. Tomorrow too I plan to phone BT. I'll try meantime to look at the difference between the BT approach and the SKY LLU approach as suggested by RobertoS [their internet site did say I could get SKY unlimited on my phone line when I input my phone number] although I won't be able to do it till later tonight.

It doesn't matter what you do at your end, the connection time noise margin will always be 15dB until BT alter it, though in just the few seconds it takes to get to read it after a connection it will have changed by a few percentage points. (In theory 10-14 days of almost absolute stability may improve it by 3dB, with that being repeatable, but it may not. The auto system that does that might have been switched off for your line).

We need to know what it is say three times in the day - morning, some time in the middle of the day, and last thing before you go to bed. Just for two or three days.

If you get BT to reset it, which costs you nothing except a bit of persuasion of their support, even if you decide to move to Sky you will not have done any damage. A reset can only do good.

At 22.42 the downstream kbps was 2784 and the upstream 448 kbps
the noise margin was 14.2 db

As there was an active additional computer on the line I'm not sure if the bt speedtester accurately reflects what was going on; the stats were


Test1 comprises of two tests

1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
1314 Kbps

0 Kbps 2000 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 1314 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 800-2000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :2784 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 2000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 11.48:26.16:62.36 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
339 Kbps

0 Kbps 448 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

>Upload speed achieved during the test was - 339 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 448 Kbps

That's quite a small fall in margin, which is encouraging. Lets see what happens over the next couple of days at the times I suggested.

At 7.47 this morning the NR was 14.6db; the upstream and downstream were 2784 and 448 the same as at about 22.30 last night.

With only this forum site running in addition to the BT speedtester, at 7.57, the stats were:

1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
1536 Kbps

0 Kbps 2000 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 1536 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 800-2000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :2784 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 2000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 10.35:30.88:58.77 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
347 Kbps

Max achievable 448 Kbps

I have just had half an hour or so with BT total broadband help desk, including a call back after they ran some tests.

At first the guy from the help desk said he thought 1.5mbs on my exhange for a wireless service was not bad as the exchange would only give up to 2mbs to 2.5mbs max and that a wired connection would probaly get me near to the max.

After a bit of persistence and pointing out the high NR level (he asked how I found out that 15 was a high level) he asked a few more questions and then he asked me to end the phone call while he ran some tests. He phoned back on my mobile to say there might be a fault with the line and that further tests were needed and the BT extended phone desk is now due to phone me back after 2pm after doing the tests (he wanted 4 hours to have the tests done).

I'll see what happens. If I hadn't known about the NR, I think the call would have ended after he said he thought my speed was reasonable for my exchange.

The help from this forum has at least led to checks being made. Thanks.

My confidence is not so high in what the agent was saying

You can slow down on doing the BT Speedtester, the regular speedtests like ours and others will show once your line stats improve.

All you need is the target noise margin lowering. If today's calls with BT Retail get nowhere, then email me [email protected] and will need details of the line, a set of line stats too and will see if BT Wholesale can lower the target noise margin.

Letting the modem sync at say a 9dB target margin, should give you an extra meg or maybe more.

As MrS says, the agent doesn't seem all that knowledgeable - if they were then they wouldn't be even talking about a wireless service - wireless has nothing to do with your problem - you have a wired ADSL connection and it is that that is going slow.

If you mentioned wireless to the agent then it is probably better in future calls not to - it might confuse the poor people who obviously don't have the training to properly understand the technology they are supporting.

Certainly be interesting to see what happens following your call.

The agent asked me how I was connected to the BT HomeHub and seemed to think that using an ethernet cable to the HomeHub would give better speed than using wireless to the HomeHub.

He did suggest he needed to talk to a supervisor when I mentioned the NM but came back to say the supervisor was not there. He then phoned back to say tests had shown there might be a fault. We'll just have to wait and see but I'll take Mr Saffron up on his offer re providing him with details of the line etc if I don't make progress with BT later today.

It can sometimes help, but not always.

For example I can get 6Meg from my line either through wireless or ethernet. It is something to check, but in your case connection method is irrelevant.

The IP Profile is 2Meg, you are getting 1.5Meg'ish from the tester which is OK for that IP profile. What you are querying is the sync speed.

Alas support will be biased torwards making the problem be a user side fault, thus nothing for them to do.

In reply to a post by oldperson:

At first the guy from the help desk said he thought 1.5mbs on my exhange for a wireless service was not bad as the exchange would only give up to 2mbs to 2.5mbs max and that a wired connection would probably get me near to the max.

It's pointless talking about your speedtests, wireless or otherwise, in this case. Your D/S Sync Speed and NM are the crux of your problem. Concentrate on that!

Speedtest results come into their own when they are so much slower than Sync.

No surprirse!

I've been phoned back from BT total broadband. An agent said the line had been reset at the exchange. I asked had the NM been changed and she just repeated that the line had been reset at the exchange (I suspect both this morning and now the agents were in an Indian call centre). She wants feedback tomorrow on how the line is performing.

I've checked: the NM is unchanged - a few minutes ago it was exactly 15! The limits of 2000k and 448 for the line are unchanged and the speed was 1545 kbps. No change since this morning.

If the NM had been changed, would it have changed immediately on the stats? If there is no time lag on an NM change appearing in the adsl stats, I will phone back now and have another go at trying to get action.

There is a Request Reset system which she may mean they have used. That seems to take a few hours to get through to a result.

You may have to switch the router off and back on again to get any change to be reflected.

Before anyone says it could be done by just resyncing the router but to make the process easier for the OP a power off and on is the easiest method.

You may have to switch the router off and back on again to get any change to be reflected.

That's a thought.

In theory it shouldn't be necessary but there have been reports in the past of needing to do that.

Thanks for the quick reply. I will wait till tomorrow morning before phoning as I suspected there might be a delay for changes to go through the system. The agent from the call centre really only seemed to know that something had been done at the exchange; she couldn't tell what was involved in the resetting of the line at the exchange.

I have just restarted the router and the computer and now have the internet back.

The NM is showing as 14.9.

Does this mean that I will need to restart the router again tomorrow to check the NM if it is still showing about 15 NM before a restart? I have been trying to avoid restarts of the router since Mr Saffron pointed out that this may be leading BT's equipment to think there are service breaks which require a higher NM to increase the chances of a stable system.

Leave it running overnight and if nothing is much different in the morning try just one then.

If that still gives about 15dB then time to send your line details to MrSaffron .

I would leave alone for the day now, and suffer current speeds. Try again in the morning and then don't bother calling them just email me - you've suffered enough now.

Usually find it happens within an hour or so of the reset going in, and plenty of times have seen it happen without the user rebooting the ADSL hardware at their end.

Used to do a couple of these a day, but done to just one or two a week now. Do moan at ISP managment when I meet them, but generally the tech people we meet for all the ISP's/wholesalers are happy for us to put the odd thing through.