Can BT swap master and extension sockets?

Hi

At the front of our house we have 2 phone sockets the broadband is plugged into one and a phone line for Sky TV into the other they are really old sockets from the 80s or earlier and we were removing the faceplates yesterday to try and find the master and from what people told us it looks as though the one the broadband is plugged into is a extension not the master which it appears is the one where the Sky TV is plugged into and after hearing that I could get a betteer broadband experience If I use the master instead of the extension I was wandering would BT be able to swap them over?

We used to have a junction box in the loft but BT removed it due to it being difficult to access and then put a white box on the outside of our house where the phone line enters the property My mum thinks this white box they installed on the outside wall is still a junction box but I think the box on the outside wall is just the entry point to the property for the phone line and not a junction box.

If the box on the exterior of the property is a junction box would that possibly make it impossible for BT to change the sockets around or would that not be a problem.

This is the box on the outside.
http://i.imgur.com/jpgum.jpg

This is the socket where the broadband is connected.
http://imgur.com/3IiGm http://i.imgur.com/FfTHT.jpg

And this is the one where the sky box is connected.
http://i.imgur.com/HZm8A.jpg http://i.imgur.com/v5FM9.jpg

If anyone could please tell me wheather we are indeed using a extension for broadband and that the master for sky an is the box outside a junction box or not.

Anyone who can help me out here I really appreciate it I am visually impaired so figuring out the wires in the sockets is really hard.

1st picture looks to be an extension
2nd looks to be them main point but extended
You can tell the 2nd one is the main as it has 2 sets of wire join it and one set of wires runs off to the socket in the 1st picture

Yes BT will happily move your master socket for a fee.

Both of those sockets appear to be labelled internally as LJU2/2A - so are both in fact master sockets intended for PABX use, they have no resistor or surge arrestor which differentiates them from the more usual LJU2/1A of that period.

Give BT a call and ask how much it would be to relocate the master socket - but make sure you are sitting down when you do, and have the kettle already on for the much needed hot sweet tea that people in shock apparently need

Edited by deleted (Mon 11-Apr-11 08:10:49)

The plate in picture one is an after market master point, as the yellow "bell ringing capacitor" confirms.
The two wires connected to it would normally lead you to believe it to be the master point.

The other picture doesn't show the whole of the plate, but the three wire system would normally denote an extension socket. Have you any other phone sockets in the house? If not then this could well be feeding the master socket in pic one, even though it shouldn't really be.

The box outside is indeed a junction box. The sockets have probably been added from there by sky, builders or DIYers in the past.

I used to be with sky, and because I did not have the correct BT master point (which you don't) they sent a BT engineer out to fit one at no cost to myself. You should confirm that with your service provider, as I don't know how much or if BT would charge if you ask them to investigate.

they have no resistor or surge arrestor which differentiates them from the more usual LJU2/1A of that period.

Ooops. I thought it was a capacitor. You learn something new everyday I suppose!

Both have the resistors in place ...

Having two "masters" albeit without the spark gap / surge arrestor can degrade performance. One simple solution is to remove the components from one of them a s a short term measure.

Those sockets were only made in 2002 - and cannot be from the 80's.

Where does the third extension sit? The SkyBox socket image shows 3 connections to 2 and 5 - itself a NO NO so there could be another socket hiding elsewhere.

You mention you are visually impaired - are BT aware of that? Certain services are provides FoC to specific categories of people.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Those sockets were only made in 2002 - and cannot be from the 80's.

Where does the third extension sit? The SkyBox socket image shows 3 connections to 2 and 5 - itself a NO NO so there could be another socket hiding elsewhere.

You mention you are visually impaired - are BT aware of that? Certain services are provides FoC to specific categories of people.

It appears from what you say that when the junction box was moved from the attic (in 2002) BT also updated the sockets. The room with the sky box has a garage on the other side of the far wall with a phone line maybe that is where the extra extension goes. Would this complicate matters in terms of getting the Sky box socket replaced with a non master? Am I correct that you think I might have a third master as well?

Indeed they do - didn't look much beyond the LJU2/2A marking. Still no surge protector and really meant for use with a PABX but they do seem to crop up fairly commonly in properties you wouldn't expect a PABX to ever have existed :/

Also just to add I am with Sky for my phone (including line rental) and broadband as well what would be the process in terms of getting BT to replace the old sockets with new ones and replace the extra masters with standard sockets.

Would I have to go through Sky or contact BT directly?

In your case all contact via Sky, thats why rental is cheap, sky handle the BT interface and book the engineers etc

A third socket or unterminated wires!

Those are almost certainly NOT BT faceplates/sockets.

A third socket or unterminated wires!

or perhaps a wired in device like an alarm ?

Well Sky are doing a follow up call today (their DLM totally destroyed my speed) and I will explain the situation and because I don't have test sockets and on top of that multiple masters if I explain I am visually impaired and the current situation is proving difficult in terms of being able to diagnose problems they might get BT in and not charge me for the work.

I would guess it is a pair going back to the attic junction box location.

Anyone else notice just one wire on the ring connector pin 3 - imbalance issues, removing that might improve things.

I noticed it - but there are quite a few issues to get through on that install.

Multiple masters, three wires in one IDC, no surge arrestors, unknown sockets, no BT master

Did not clock all four photos at first!

The extra pair would very doubtfully be going to the loft unless the outlet had always been in the current position.

Looks like a simple fix. The two masters are linked in parallel and the third set will probably be the secondary mentioned on the other side of the garage wall. The cables appear to be surface mounted, so making one an NTE 5 point and linking the other two as three wire secondaries would be simple enough and should solve the problem.

Edit: That is if you need the ring wire.

Edited by mrnelster (Mon 11-Apr-11 19:20:48)

Well just a quick update I totally lost internet connection a few days ago after sky manually increased my download and upload speed we had a BT engineer out and he said it is getting the correct amount of speed but for some reason the speed is not getting to the router. Personally I think artificially pinning the speed down is even worse than traffic management internet speeds are not static they alway fluctuate even on traffic managed lines and Sky's pinning down of the sped prevents this. anyway the engineer said all he could do is recommend to Sky they send out a new router incase that is the problem but in the mean time I have plugged in a router of my own and the speed is as slow as ever so it is not looking good. I am preparing to cancel my contract in the event the new router does not work and will probably go to BT Infinity.

So where is the engineer seeing this mythical magic speed?

The lack of data from your routers, i.e. sync speed, attenuation and noise margin data make it impossible to evaluate what the engineer or Sky are saying.

I presume the BT engineer tested using the master socket? Have you tried your own modems at that point?