Possible telephone line problem in windy weather ?

I'm not sure which section to post this in so my apologies if I've posted it in the wrong section.

I've just had my guttering replaced and new PVC fascia boards fitted (as the old wooden ones were beginning to rot and needed replacing)

This was done today when I was at work (I had to work today as it wasn't in my contract to have the day off but I was paid double time so it's not that bad) and the job was finished by the time I finished work at 2pm.

Last week I paid a deposit for the work and have to pay the balance on monday, he is coming to the house to collect the money.

I am concerned as the telephone line may get blown about in windy weather:

[IMG]http://i55.tinypic.com/2s1aqab.jpg[/img]


From my street it doesn't seem too bad (above) but when viewed from my upstairs window it does seem bad (below)

[IMG]http://i55.tinypic.com/332vsox.jpg[/img]


Am I worrying over nothing ?

I rang him around half an hour ago and he said it would be fine but I am not sure if he's just fobbing me off ?

I don't want to pay him in full if the line does need seeing to as I would probably stand little chance of him coming out to correct it once he has my money.

Thanks.


By the way, I suppose I could correct it myself but I'm not that keen on going up ladders on a steep hill besides I don't have a ladder long enough.

Anyway he should leave the telephone line as it was before he worked on the job !

Edited by deleted (Fri 29-Apr-11 16:30:38)

Hi Curly,

I've replied to your post in Kitz' forum, so I won't repeat myself here!

How high is it? If they have dropped the height, it's not the wind you need to worry about, it's high vehicles taking it down and bringing your fascia boards with it.

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

How high is it? If they have dropped the height, it's not the wind you need to worry about, it's high vehicles taking it down and bringing your fascia boards with it.

Good point. There's not much clearance when a tall sided lorry goes underneath it perhaps 3 or 4 ft.

If there's any safety concerns (i.e. the wire being "low") then you might be best off reporting this to BT as an observed low wire.

They'll send out an engineer to retension it and possibly a cherry picker too if it's very low.

Safety is most important, like RJ said, you don't want a high load vehicle stripping off your facia and smashing some passer by!

Maybe no need to even mention to BT about the work you've had done. Just the important facts: low wire, possibly dangerous. Better safe than sorry!

In reply to a post by polemonkey:

If there's any safety concerns (i.e. the wire being "low") then you might be best off reporting this to BT as an observed low wire.

They'll send out an engineer to retension it and possibly a cherry picker too if it's very low.

Safety is most important, like RJ said, you don't want a high load vehicle stripping off your facia and smashing some passer by!

Maybe no need to even mention to BT about the work you've had done. Just the important facts: low wire, possibly dangerous. Better safe than sorry!

Well I would prefer the contractors to fix it and they said they will do so tomorrow.

They had better or they won't get paid !

I am sure I would be charged by BT Openreach if I called them out as they could see that the telephone line has been altered as the contractor used black tape to tape the telephone line to the hook (or whatever it's called)

You can just about make out the black tape on the hook if you look closely !

[IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/9lcvm9.jpg[/IMG]

and now days the fix should not as a rule be on to fascia boards.

lol see what you mean... botch job.

Mind you if it came to the crunch you could always lie and tell the Openreach engineer and say it had always been like that
He might believe you.

But, yeah, your builder really should sort that out, it's a 2 minute job at the most.

In reply to a post by btbert:

and now days the fix should not as a rule be on to fascia boards.

Are you serious?

Where else would the telephone link 'hook' be fixed ?

All of the houses on my street use the fascia boards !

The only difference between mine and most of the other houses is the fact that my fascia boards are PVC as opposed to being wood.

In reply to a post by polemonkey:

lol see what you mean... botch job.

Mind you if it came to the crunch you could always lie and tell the Openreach engineer and say it had always been like that
He might believe you.

I doubt it !

Last year I had rising damp and I requested that my line be moved aprox 12 ft (where it enters my home) and was charged not far off £200 so I would not like to risk it !

In reply to a post by polemonkey:

But, yeah, your builder really should sort that out, it's a 2 minute job at the most.

I've requested that he use plastic table ties to tie the telephone line to the 'hook' as using tape isn't ideal especially if the tape isn't weatherproof as it could work loose with rain, etc.

That's how the other lines in my street have been fixed, using table ties.

An expansion bolt in the brickwork is the standard/preferred method. Has been for years.

In reply to a post by MadMan:

An expansion bolt in the brickwork is the standard/preferred method. Has been for years.

Sorry but I've never heard of this way of fixing telephone lines

It's an expansion bolt with a thick ring welded to it.

Fixing to a PVC fascia boards shouldn't be done. Wooden fascia boards rot & the wire comes down (not good, may kill someone)..

The expansion bolts have been used for years, far quicker & neater to fit.

Stop walking around with your head down, look up & you may see some.

In reply to a post by MadMan:

The expansion bolts have been used for years, far quicker & neater to fit.

Stop walking around with your head down, look up & you may see some.

There's none in my street !

At a guess 10 to 15 years. Last year we had both drop wires ripped off - both were wall fixed, one using ordinary screws and plus and the other with an expansion bolt. The force ripped the expansion bolt out of the hole! Had they been fascia fixed I can imagine the damage that would have occurred.

Cable ties or tape are not needed. The steel wire has the cable wrapped around and forms a secure fixing - there are millions in service and they work.

Interesting that one.
Our line was originally aluminium - fixed to facia board.
Replaced by copper - fixed to facia board.
The they decided that the length was too long and replaced from their pole to electricity pole then to - yep, facia board.
All over the past 35 years!

If the old fixing is ok, engineers often reuse it, but an expansion bolt is better.
For a start, you don't get the problem in this thread, as when wood is replaced with PVC fascia, the overhead cable is not effected.

An expansion bolt can pull out, if the force of the cable is more or less inline with the bolt, better at 45 degrees.
Fixing in PVC is not a good idea, as it's not as well fixed to the roof as wooden ones.

They look a lot better as well

Well, expect a lot of other people in your street to get problems if they change their fascia boards.

In my case a car hit the base of the pole, over 50M away and pulled out both! Having seen the way PVC fascias are fitted four balckbirds sitting on a line could well be enough to pull the fascia off!

In reply to a post by MHC:

Having seen the way PVC fascias are fitted four blackbirds sitting on a line could well be enough to pull the fascia off!

I hope not

Edited by deleted (Tue 03-May-11 21:15:20)

is the telephone wire going under or over the electric wires? if under then it may be loose to keep regulation distances between the wires - if over then you want it tightend. In anycase although common practice it was illegal for them to have touched the dropwire fixing - I have done a lot of jobs for a national window firm who always call us out to relocate the wire onto the brickwork using an expanding eyebolt - this is simply a cost of the job and only BT can do it. If a lorry pulls that wire down and kills someone (which has happened in the past hence wire height regulations) then their and possibly your ass is liable (as they were your agents working on the line). Best risk a small charge and report as a low wire, than have some poor sap end up getting gorroted off their motorcycle etc.....
A QUICK PHONE CALL FROM YOU AND TEN MINS OF AN ENGINEER TIME COULD SAVE AN AWFUL LOT OF TROUBLE.
If you report it to bt saying you are a passer by then they will send an engineer out on a dummy job - this will make it all the harder for them to charge you - if it is nothing to worry about the engineer wont charge - even if he has to do something he may just be happy to have an easy clear and not bother going through the rigmarole of raising a charge without your account details. I certainly wouldnt (especially if I was on a call-out).
There is a five hour response time if you say it is potentially dangerous which it is. Call.

In reply to a post by CurlyWhirly:

In reply to a post by MHC:

Having seen the way PVC fascias are fitted four blackbirds sitting on a line could well be enough to pull the fascia off!

I hope not

I came across one instance where the parents of a friend had UPVC fascia boards fitted and they were not happy with the work and were refusing to pay - I went along to support him. The old fascia was rotten, but all the cowboys had done was to overlay the rotten boards with the UPVC and fix using 3.5x20 mm screws. Screws were way to short, and could almost be pulled out of the rotten timber by hand. So, yes, four blackbirds could be enough!

For the record, I called BT OpenReach out (via BT's India call centre), to disconnect an upstairs tel extension line, in a vain attempt to put more Orange broadband speed into my downstairs master socket. The initial feedback from BT India, was non-committal regarding whether it would be a "free" call-out or the standard minimum charge of £130. Without any further feedback from BT, I noticed that my BT online billing alert (via automatic email) some weeks later, unfortunately included the max call-out charge. I whinged to BT India via email, mentioning that the engineer did not spend more than 15 minutes @ my property, and did not even strip out the redundant extension wiring and upstairs wall BT socket. All I got was a token £30 off, which I had no other alternative but to accept (under their T&C) - with no apparent broadband gain to rub salt in the wound
Then, not many days later my broadband service was changed, without notice to BT WBC 21CN, and although my initial upload and download speeds improved substantially, I have since registered some bad dips. I'm continuing to record my speeds daily on the "Orange" speed tester, and it reveals an "up & down" trend. If it finally collapses back to previous unacceptable levels, then it will be "MAC" time, as one can be only patient for so long.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

is the telephone wire going under or over the electric wires? if under then it may be loose to keep regulation distances between the wires - if over then you want it tightened.

The telephone cable is below the mains cables thankfully.

However because of this, it means that there's more risk of a high sided vehicle pulling the telephone wire down as it isn't as high as it would otherwise be.

The builder still hasn't done the work although he rang me last night to say that he needs paying for the PVC work.

I said that you will have the money when the outstanding work is done !

Regarding regulation distance between the telephone line and the mains cable, there used to be a distance of around 2 ft (it is now aprox 4 ft because of the drop) which I assume was okay as a BT Openreach engineer moved the telephone line entry point to my house last year (because of a rising damp problem) at my request.

I was charged around £180 as it was a fixed cost not a time dependant charge which I reckon was a ripoff as the job only took around 15 mins.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

In any case although common practice it was illegal for them to have touched the dropwire fixing

I didn't know that

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

I have done a lot of jobs for a national window firm who always call us out to relocate the wire onto the brickwork using an expanding eyebolt - this is simply a cost of the job and only BT can do it.

Any idea what the cost could be?

Cheers.

In reply to a post by MHC:

I came across one instance where the parents of a friend had UPVC fascia boards fitted and they were not happy with the work and were refusing to pay - I went along to support him. The old fascia was rotten, but all the cowboys had done was to overlay the rotten boards with the UPVC and fix using 3.5x20 mm screws. Screws were way to short, and could almost be pulled out of the rotten timber by hand. So, yes, four blackbirds could be enough!

I hope the PVC company hasn't done that as I specifically asked for the old wooden fascia boards not to be used because they have started to rot.

I can't check without climbing up a ladder though.

In reply to a post by shrimper1:

For the record, I called BT OpenReach out (via BT's India call centre), to disconnect an upstairs tel extension line, in a vain attempt to put more Orange broadband speed into my downstairs master socket. The initial feedback from BT India, was non-committal regarding whether it would be a "free" call-out or the standard minimum charge of £130. Without any further feedback from BT, I noticed that my BT online billing alert (via automatic email) some weeks later, unfortunately included the max call-out charge. I whinged to BT India via email, mentioning that the engineer did not spend more than 15 minutes @ my property, and did not even strip out the redundant extension wiring and upstairs wall BT socket. All I got was a token £30 off, which I had no other alternative but to accept (under their T&C) - with no apparent broadband gain to rub salt in the wound

Yes it's a shame as you had to fork out that money for no benefit with your broadband speed

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

is the telephone wire going under or over the electric wires? if under then it may be loose to keep regulation distances between the wires - if over then you want it tightend. In anycase although common practice it was illegal for them to have touched the dropwire fixing - I have done a lot of jobs for a national window firm who always call us out to relocate the wire onto the brickwork using an expanding eyebolt - this is simply a cost of the job and only BT can do it. If a lorry pulls that wire down and kills someone (which has happened in the past hence wire height regulations) then their and possibly your ass is liable (as they were your agents working on the line). Best risk a small charge and report as a low wire, than have some poor sap end up getting gorroted off their motorcycle etc.....
A QUICK PHONE CALL FROM YOU AND TEN MINS OF AN ENGINEER TIME COULD SAVE AN AWFUL LOT OF TROUBLE.
If you report it to bt saying you are a passer by then they will send an engineer out on a dummy job - this will make it all the harder for them to charge you - if it is nothing to worry about the engineer wont charge - even if he has to do something he may just be happy to have an easy clear and not bother going through the rigmarole of raising a charge without your account details. I certainly wouldnt (especially if I was on a call-out).
There is a five hour response time if you say it is potentially dangerous which it is. Call.

^^^ Best advice yet. Do this. ^^^

Ring BT and say you were walking down Joe Bloggs Street and noticed a low wire. When asked whether it looks is potentially dangerous, say yes. An engineer will be out within 4 hours of your call. Don't be home, or at least pretend not to be. Engineer will re-tension wire regardless of whether your home or not. No charge will be raised because the person reporting the low wire is not the bill payer, if you know what I mean. Tip: don't report it from your land line

Edited by deleted (Wed 04-May-11 21:22:16)

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

There is a five hour response time if you say it is potentially dangerous which it is. Call.

I just thought.

Last year I was with BT for my telephone and I called 150 (I think) to arrange for a BT Openreach engineer to carry out the work that I've mentioned earlier on in this thread.

Since then I've moved to O2 for both my phone and broadband, how would I arrange for a BT Openreach engineer to call as I can no longer use the 150 service as I'm not a BT customer anymore (for the telephony side of things)

Any idea what the number could be? Cheers.

In reply to a post by polemonkey:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

is the telephone wire going under or over the electric wires? if under then it may be loose to keep regulation distances between the wires - if over then you want it tightend. In anycase although common practice it was illegal for them to have touched the dropwire fixing - I have done a lot of jobs for a national window firm who always call us out to relocate the wire onto the brickwork using an expanding eyebolt - this is simply a cost of the job and only BT can do it. If a lorry pulls that wire down and kills someone (which has happened in the past hence wire height regulations) then their and possibly your ass is liable (as they were your agents working on the line). Best risk a small charge and report as a low wire, than have some poor sap end up getting gorroted off their motorcycle etc.....
A QUICK PHONE CALL FROM YOU AND TEN MINS OF AN ENGINEER TIME COULD SAVE AN AWFUL LOT OF TROUBLE.
If you report it to bt saying you are a passer by then they will send an engineer out on a dummy job - this will make it all the harder for them to charge you - if it is nothing to worry about the engineer wont charge - even if he has to do something he may just be happy to have an easy clear and not bother going through the rigmarole of raising a charge without your account details. I certainly wouldnt (especially if I was on a call-out).
There is a five hour response time if you say it is potentially dangerous which it is. Call.

Best advice yet. Do this.

Ring BT and say you were walking down Joe Bloggs Street and noticed a low wire. When asked whether it looks is potentially dangerous, say yes. An engineer will be out within 4 hours of your call. Don't be home, or at least pretend not to be. Engineer will re-tension wire regardless of whether your home or not. No charge will be raised because the person reporting the low wire is not the bill payer, if you know what I mean. Tip: don't report it from your land line

I'll try that but I don't know what number to call !

See my last reply

0800800150 I think?

That's right...any of the BT 15x numbers can be dialled like this.

In reply to a post by polemonkey:

0800800150 I think?

Yes it is.

I managed to get an answer after quite a wait and they said that they will send someone out ASAP.

I just said that I was passing by and pressed the option which told them that I wasn't ringing about the line that I'm talking about.

I actually rang from my mobile phone.

Cheers for the advice

Glad you got there, but for future advice, if you have a problem with your telephone line, then it is down to your telephone service provider (in your case now O2) to get Openreach out.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Glad you got there, but for future advice, if you have a problem with your telephone line, then it is down to your telephone service provider (in your case now O2) to get Openreach out.

Ok, I'll bear this in mind !

O2 customer services, 0800 230 0202

It has just come back to me.

The piece of 4mm steel wire with twists - dropwire calmp 10A, that is connected to the eye on the fascia and the drop wire wrapped round has a rather appropriate nick name! Curly Whirly or Curly Wurly

Let's face(ia) it, that adds a whole new twist to the discussion.

0800800150 from mobile or 1540 from payphone

oops bit late. no harm ringing bt direct as you are pretending to be a passer by plus you know it will get dealt with properly. I would always recommend that any safety issue be reported direct to bt.

From the 2010/2011 BT Phone Book --

Reporting damage to telephone poles, wires, box covers or road side cabinets

Freefone 0800 023 2023

24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

That would be the number I would use to report (what looks like) an abnormally low drop-wire.

OK, that was an easy one, what's a 'Bill Brown' then !

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

OK, that was an easy one, what's a 'Bill Brown' then !

It's what happens to the customer's underwear when the next BT bill is received?

In reply to a post by MHC:

It has just come back to me.

The piece of 4mm steel wire with twists - dropwire calmp 10A, that is connected to the eye on the fascia and the drop wire wrapped round has a rather appropriate nick name! Curly Whirly or Curly Wurly

Never

In reply to a post by CurlyWhirly:

In reply to a post by MHC:

It has just come back to me.

The piece of 4mm steel wire with twists - dropwire calmp 10A, that is connected to the eye on the fascia and the drop wire wrapped round has a rather appropriate nick name! Curly Whirly or Curly Wurly

Never

Seriously! and Zarjaz can confirm it.

Yep, in fact for quite while I'd presumed you were aware of the connection between your username and this bit of kit.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

OK, that was an easy one, what's a 'Bill Brown' then !

thats also easy its a "sleeve dropwire protection 2a"

named after the old Reading ST of the same name

lol

Good spot, and I *believe* a regional dialect of Engineer-speak.

No, he's too busy stuffing his face with chocolate!

I've decided to leave it as it is as according to a google search, there is supposed to be a sag to allow for expansion of the cable and the wind.

Having said this, I can't remember there being a sag of aprox 3 ft before I had the guttering/fascia board work carried out


The picture isn't very clear but the telephone line is taped to the hook 'thingy' (below):


[IMG]http://i51.tinypic.com/b5lf9w.jpg[/img]

The black tape is in the area highlighted in red

Is this likely to work loose with the weather ?

I did what I was advised and pretend that I was a passer by and report the allegedly dangerous line (in order to avoid BT Openreach's extortionate £130 charge for such a small job) but it looks like this work wasn't carried out after all as it's still the same.

I have therefore come to the conclusion that it must be safe after all !?

Any comments anyone

It is very usual to see the dropwire taped to a swan neck bracket in the fashion pictured. It's just to make it neater as it follows from the ring to the wall plate.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

It is very usual to see the dropwire taped to a swan neck bracket in the fashion pictured. It's just to make it neater as it follows from the ring to the wall plate.

So it must be standard practice and therefore the method of taping the line to the bracket must be okay (weather issues, etc) or it wouldn't be used.

I'm relieved now

As Zarjaz says it is just for neatness. It does not take any strain whatsoever - the curly piece of steel wire is the critical part.

In reply to a post by MHC:

As Zarjaz says it is just for neatness. It does not take any strain whatsoever - the curly piece of steel wire is the critical part.

I see, thanks.

can i just ask did tht number evan work for u ?

It is not the normal practice to fix them to the facia board as it does not have the strength to hold a tensioned phone line.

They should be fixed to brick or solid wood timbers to give the required strength. Sometimes they can go through the facia and be secured into the roof timbers