Providers of ADSL

Hello all

just a quick question really, we currently use a VoIP (voice over IP) telephone system. we have 5 branches around the UK all connecting into our main office in Liverpool via ADSL connections.

in the head office, we have to use Virgin Media broadband connections due to ADSL speeds being awful (been told we are on the limits of distance from the exchange)

a "specialist" in voice communications has told us that we need an uncontended service for our voice traffic, im guessing this would be on an ADSL circuit, but if BT can't provide a better service than what we already get on the ADSL. Could another provider? As i thought resellers just use BT's backbone?

thanks

ADSL uses BT's copper wire to the exchange. From the exchange onwards there are better and worse suppliers that BT.

BT have been launching a fibre to the cabinet technology using VDSL2 which may offer better value then Virgin Cable.

e.g. http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProduc...

You can buy this service from other ISPs.

thanks for the reply

just did a look up an was told

In reference to bt.com:

BT Infinity is not currently due to be rolled out in your area within the next 6 months. Register your interest and we will keep you up to date about the BT Infinity rollout.

just done a search for our Exchange an we are only 1.4 miles away

this would seem we are pretty close to it, depending on the quality of our line/ route it takes to us. but we are still experiencing low speeds (on ADSL)

current status of our ADSL connection
upspeed is 160000
downspeed is 2304000
SNR is 8.5
Loop Attn is 52.5

currently available at our exchange is

ADSL:
Yes

SDSL:
Yes

LLU services: Yes

BT Wholesale information

ADSL status: Enabled as of 31/12/2000

ADSL Max status: Enabled as of 31/03/2006

SDSL status: Enabled

21CN WBC status: Enabled as of 21/03/2009

No they can't

I think its just a sale pitch

they can't change anything including distance if there a reseller

got a link to there site?

Edited by epyon (Fri 20-May-11 11:58:54)

Welcome to the forums .

Something isn't right in what you are telling us. Either you are missing something out, or you are mis-informed. You also have a conenction problem.

You say "we have to use Virgin Media broadband connections due to ADSL speeds being awful", implying Virgin Media Cable, but then in this post you give us ADSL statistics which means a (BT) phone line service is being used for the broadband.

The statistics themselves show the ADSL connecting at 2304kbps down and 160kbps up. The prime determinant of connection speed is the attenuation, which reflects the length of the line to the exchange, and on 52.5dB attenuation you should be connecting at more like 3-4Mbps, if not higher still, and 448kbps up.

The 8.5dB noise margin, which in itself is higher than normal, is taking a few hundred kbps away, but doesn't account for the very low speed and the atrocious upstream.

Something is badly wrong with that connection, probably at your end. Please have a read of my Troubleshooring section. (Ignore the "Router acting oddly" page).

sorry i should have explained better earlier

we have 1 ADSL connection provided by BT, we also have 4 "broadband" connections from Virgin Media that come in via coax cable. these were sold to us as "residential broadband" connections with static ip's

the reason we got the Virgin Media connections was that our ADSL was always flaky, constant drops with low speeds. our remote sites are connected to us via VPN so flaky connections are something we cant have.

id liked to try an understand what is available to us before the "specialist" comes in next week an tries to sell us something, if all of that makes sense

thanks

Right .

First, did you read my troubleshooting stuff, because you are by no means too far from the exchange for a satisfactory ADSL service. As I said before, you have something specific wrong with that ADSL connection, maybe more than one thing. It wouldn't be the VM cable sales people that told you that you were too far away for decent ADSL would it? [cough]! Of course, if the incoming line is 2 metres above an electricity sub-station, you might have difficulty doing anything about it.

Get the ADSL sorted out and the game changes dramatically.

Second, I can't help you personally re VOIP, but I suggest you post something similar to your opening post here in the VOIP forum, but tidied up and with a link to this thread as well. You should find some people with specialised knowledge who don't necessarily come in this one.

thanks RobertoS

i will open a thread in the VoiP section

thanks

an it was BT who said that we are quite a distance from the exchange!!

53dB attenuation is quiet a distance, but as others have pointed out the line should run better, the poor upstream is a symptom of a bad microfilter or something is connected to the line without going via a microfilter, e.g. till, fax, ringer

While uncontended lines using ADSL are possible, they are relatively rare, and Virgin Media business should be able to offer you similar. Your description of residential with static IP's is odd, sounds like maybe they are the bottom end business services from Virgin Media.

What speed of service is VM providing, agregating into one or two bigger links may be cheaper.

This 'specialist' is possibly trying to sell you something, that you may not need.

VoiP should run well enough if it has 64Kbps or more per line, so if taking 5 calls at the same time, you need at least 350Kbps in both directions. VM business should meet that, or even two bog standard ADSL lines.

Hi Andrew thanks for the replies

the ADSL socket has the micro filter built into the faceplate

there is an extension that runs off the socket which runs the fax machine but i'm certain this has got a filter on the end of it too (i will check)

the speed of service we were told by VM is 10Mb, this could have been 20Mb but without a static IP. but due to the need to have a static we had to go for 10Mb.

voice quality is good, but a certain (random) times latency appears.


i haven't looked into BB connections for a while, so just wanted to get a heads up really before the "Specialist" comes in an tries to baffle us with science


just done a speed check on our VM connections an it comes out as

Down 9865 kbps
Up 726 kbps

http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/results.php?t=13061...

thanks all

I don't believe VM can only offer a static IP on their 10Meg product, but on looking at their site this is only on their 4 and 10Meg business products, somewhat useless.

If you are seeing poor latency and packet loss from a line that looks more than capable of supporting your voip then pester Virgin Media, they may simply point you at their leased line product range

http://www.virginmediabusiness.co.uk/products__solut...

In reply to a post by mudcow007:

voice quality is good, but a certain (random) times latency appears.

My immediate reaction is that general traffic in your office(s) is using the available bandwidth - do you have any sort of proxy or traffic managment in the office?

Frankly, I think your voice "specialist" is trying to sell you something that is probably OTT.

The assumption that the problem is in the central office may not be right. Remember that the effecive bandwidth between sites is the smallest of the two site's upstream figures.

eg, if you use std. ADSL at both ends, you only have (in an ideal world) a 448Kbps channel betwwen sites, before any VPN overhead.

In your office, the VM connection has 726kbps to carry all outbound traffic, including your VOIP. What about the branches?

Do you run email servers at each site or at the central office? Windows AD domain controller at sites or central? Anything else that uploads lots? Any dodgy staff using torrents?

Without knowing your setup, I'd be looking more at,

Local QoS to ensure VOIP gets onto the WAN links first and fastest.
Site to site VPN to carry the VOIP traffic - some ISPs don't like Voip on their network and can do strange things to it.

(Have a look at some of the business-grade Draytek kit for examples of kit that will do this)