BTW (21CN) vs CPW (LLU)

Hey!

My local exchange just got upgraded to 21CN/LLU and I'm having a lot of difficulty deciding between which network route to go down. I'm currently with Xilo and I'm weighing up the two packages: Office (21CN) vs Pro 24 (LLU).

Price isn't an issue, but performance is. I'm currently on an ADSL Max line syncing at 8128/832 with line attenuation of 21dB and I want a service that will give me the fastest download/upload possible.

What do you think would be the best route to go down?

Many thanks!

We were in a similar situation a year ago, and most certainly the CPW LLU is a better option in terms of reliability, especially since it doesn't have to use the BT network, other than the local loop between house and exchange.

Don't think much of Office (21CN)! It just offered me 8 Meg speed on a line that's currently getting 20 Meg on WBC (that;s the real title of BB on 21CN exchanges)

Other than the IP Profile, which is more direct on WBC, 21CN and LLU are much the same as they both use the same ADSL2+ technology over the same copper. the only diff will be how the ISP manages the line.

In reply to a post by netgem21:

...I'm weighing up the two packages: Office (21CN) vs Pro 24 (LLU).

If cost is not a significant issue then I would certainly recommend uno Pro 24 partial LLU. I'm currently on Pro 24 and have been considering a move to 21CN WBC now that my exchange has been upgraded, however I've been looking at what other ISP's can offer also - I'm obviously reluctant to leave Xilo though, since their support and service is superb.

Thanks for starting this thread because it might be very interesting to hear what others have to say about Office (21CN) and perhaps uno Home 21CN products also

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by netgem21:

...I'm weighing up the two packages: Office (21CN) vs Pro 24 (LLU).

If cost is not a significant issue then I would certainly recommend uno Pro 24 partial LLU. I'm currently on Pro 24 and have been considering a move to 21CN WBC now that my exchange has been upgraded, however I've been looking at what other ISP's can offer also - I'm obviously reluctant to leave Xilo though, since their support and service is superb.

Thanks for starting this thread because it might be very interesting to hear what others have to say about Office (21CN) and perhaps uno Home 21CN products also

Thanks! Funny thing is, I'm looking at the 80GB Office package which is actually £10 more than the Pro 24!

It was the Home 25GB 21CN (un-metered off peak) deal that interested me, which was promptly confirmed as being available at my exchange via an enquiry ticket - an internal Xilo migration from partial LLU (CPW) to 21CN WBC fee of £48 was quoted though!

One plus note on 21CN is if the line is stable, the target SNR will eventually drop to 3db - hence more speed over some LLU services - most are 6db default.

You should see 20Mb on your line.

Edited by wolvesmad (Fri 03-Aug-12 16:30:42)

Can't really get away from that fee i'm afraid - I wish we could!

Matt

In reply to a post by wolvesmad:

One plus note on 21CN is if the line is stable, the target SNR will eventually drop to 3db - hence more speed over some LLU services - most are 6db default.

You should see 20Mb on your line.

Does the SNR not drop on CPW? My modem (Sitecom DC-227) won't tell me any stats other than line attenuation, but it never disconnects so I presume the SNR is stable.

In reply to a post by JNeuhoff:

We were in a similar situation a year ago, and most certainly the CPW LLU is a better option in terms of reliability, especially since it doesn't have to use the BT network, other than the local loop between house and exchange.

?

According to the manual, (there's also one for v2 that I haven't checked), it also shows attainable rate and noise margin.

The 3dB figure that has been mentioned is the setting at the time you connect. The figure reported by the modem then varies 24/7, as the noise itself varies. Yours should be a lot higher than 6dB at the moment, due to the capping on ADSL Max. It would be worth giving us the three figures - attainable rate, (which I hope is just an incorrectly named connection speed), noise margin, and confirmation of the attenuation. All in both directions .

I believe the poster was on a congested BT exchange, which was above acceptable limits and BTW wouldn't do anything.

Matt

Matt,

Thanks for the info - so I guess that would be one of the problems one could face if on the BT network...

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

According to the manual, (there's also one for v2 that I haven't checked), it also shows attainable rate and noise margin.

The 3dB figure that has been mentioned is the setting at the time you connect. The figure reported by the modem then varies 24/7, as the noise itself varies. Yours should be a lot higher than 6dB at the moment, due to the capping on ADSL Max. It would be worth giving us the three figures - attainable rate, (which I hope is just an incorrectly named connection speed), noise margin, and confirmation of the attenuation. All in both directions .

Thanks for looking into that! Unfortunately, I'm on the v2 which doesn't seem to display any statistics at all!

Download the v2 manual. It shows links on the ADSL page. PDF page 16 of 43.

ADSL Status
This page shows the current operation mode, status of your ADSL connection, the data rate and the quality of your ADSL link.

There also seems to be a CD with the full manual on it. If you've got that, don't do a full install. Such things usually have an option to read or install the manual.

Just as a point of interest, which exchange is it? I'm not dead happy about your opening post.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Download the v2 manual. It shows links on the ADSL page. PDF page 16 of 43.

ADSL Status
This page shows the current operation mode, status of your ADSL connection, the data rate and the quality of your ADSL link.

There also seems to be a CD with the full manual on it. If you've got that, don't do a full install. Such things usually have an option to read or install the manual.

Nope, unfortunately when you click the link, it only displays Line Attenuation. I've been on the phone to Sitecom this week about it and they're aware of the issue and they're going to call me on Monday with a resolution.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Just as a point of interest, which exchange is it? I'm not dead happy about your opening post.

What's wrong with my opening post? Exchange is EAMTS.

I'm happy now. My concern was unfounded.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I'm happy now. My concern was unfounded.

Just as a point of interest, what was your concern?

The high numbers of people who come here who don't know the difference between BT 21CN and LLU in terms of ADSL2+ being available at their exchange.

In the same way as a falling number of posters who have got as far as looking at samknows think there is only BT (Retail) or LLU available on their exchange, not realising that BT Wholesale availability means nearly every ISP in the country, and the (again high) number who think "superfast" is only Infinity, Sky, TT and Virgin.

I was only worried that the first paragraph might have applied to you. Caused by both seeming to happen at the same time. Which is possible but not common.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The high numbers of people who come here who don't know the difference between BT 21CN and LLU in terms of ADSL2+ being available at their exchange.

In the same way as a falling number of posters who have got as far as looking at samknows think there is only BT (Retail) or LLU available on their exchange, not realising that BT Wholesale availability means nearly every ISP in the country, and the (again high) number who think "superfast" is only Infinity, Sky, TT and Virgin.

I was only worried that the first paragraph might have applied to you. Caused by both seeming to happen at the same time. Which is possible but not common.

Ha, don't worry, I know my stuff