BT Move to tackle Increasing Install delays

BT have implimented an emergency measure to deal with the very long delays now occuring.They will now be giving priority to Business installs in some cases. This may lead to increased delays to residential installs



BTOpenreach has announced a new short term process change for ISP customers, which is designed to help cope with the on-going engineer delays (caused by bad weather). The new initiative aims to give certain business customers a faster provision of service (phone and broadband) but only if it�s absolutely necessary.

The missing link.

Care to share the link - something that is the polite thing to do so people can read more for themselves.

I presume it's this:

http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefin...

In reply to a post by Bob_s2:

This may lead to increased delays to residential installs

Where does it say or imply that?

It doesn't. He doesn't claim it does. He gives his opinion of what will result.

Much as I hate to do it, I agree with him, only I would remove the "may". It is an inevitable result.

Oh I knew where it was, has been on desk all morning.

Just polite and being part of the community for the original poster to supply it. I have suspended posting rights for those that consistently do this.

No, it will be dealt with by getting the Technicians to work overtime at premium rates. A lot of BT Techs work a 9 day fortnight or similar and one I know, because of his role works a 7 day fortnight - 3 days one week then 4 the next.

In reply to a post by Bob_s2:

The new initiative aims to give certain business customers a faster provision of service (phone and broadband)

I assumed they already did this. Isn't one of the perks (of paying more for the business service) a rather better SLA?

And we know Bob likes a good SLA

In reply to a post by MHC:

No, it will be dealt with by getting the Technicians to work overtime at premium rates.

The service is not charged extra, so how can they afford that?

What ever happened to the 10 day fortnight?

Don't people work a full week anymore?

Because for overtime the premium comes from the overheads in the normal rates charged as the additional costs are not there for overtime - management supervision, pension, insurance, vehicle capital cost &c.

I work a 10 day fortnight which is made up of two five day weeks!

This isnt for BT though.

I assume the seven day fortnights are either more than 7.5 hour days or include Saturdays, Sundays night times etc - I wouldnt fancy that anymore.

In reply to a post by greenglide:

I work a 10 day fortnight which is made up of two five day weeks!

This isnt for BT though.

I assume the seven day fortnights are either more than 7.5 hour days or include Saturdays, Sundays night times etc - I wouldnt fancy that anymore.

Those who work in the transport industry can work 6 days a week and shifts can be upto 15hrs ,(Heavy goods) 3.5t van drivers even longer hours. And they (bt engineers) think that their wage is poor!!! they want to try working a full week every week then their wage will increase and so will productivity, little wonder that they are so far behind with installs ect,

Edited by tommy45 (Thu 04-Oct-12 15:08:33)

Yep. Dead easy being up a telegraph pole in a freezing cold wind trying to fix a connection. Or even trying to sort out very fiddly wiring in a cabinet in driving rain on a cold day next to a main road, trying to stop the rain getting in there, and dealing with finding a working pair by talking to control with thundering lorries within 1-3 metres of you.

Bad enough in decent weather.

Not a job I could do, nor you I imagine. Nearly all of them are great people and friendly as well.

Which is not to detract from the damn dangerous hours lots of lorry drivers have to do, despite the legislation. I just object to your saying OR engineers have it easy.

More contractors coming in to make up the numbers.
I dont see this option adding significantly to the workload. The DSO escalation path has always been there in addition the expedite process.
BTW, I think 9 day fortnights went with transformation and the mojority are on 4 day weeks, with a minority on 3 and 5 day patterns.

But what hours do they work?

PS. I'm a commercial workshop manger, used to be a fitter (still do get my hands dirty) so have been on the side of motorways working on lorrys with lorrys thundering by. Not nice working outside in the cold/wet/snow so I try to stay in the warm these days

36 hour basic working week.

I recently had to deal with some working 9 day fortnights - there seem to be pockets that are still in that pattern. As I mentioned, one I know is in a team which works 07:30 to 19:00 with a 1 hour lunch break on a 3 & 4 pattern.

Also with winter coming in they will have to start and finish a shift in the dark.

I assume that they are rules about working in the dark and most likely this is why they need more bodies as they actual amount of work they can do is limited by the conditions.

I imagine the weather would be more of a problem. What with travelling to and from jobs, winter congestion, access to some places blocked and so on. I doubt the darkness would be as much as a problem if they are kitted out with flood lighting.

The bigger concern is that BT clearly cannot meet the existing demand so exatcly how are they going to be able to take on the BDUK wwork with it's tight timescales and penalty clauses for not meeting them.. Will BT then divert resorces from other work to avoid paying out money for failing to meet BDUK contracts?

Where is this flooding. The Met Office and environment agency have no reported instances of flooding anywhere in the UK

In reply to a post by Bob_s2:

Where is this flooding. The Met Office and environment agency have no reported instances of flooding anywhere in the UK

Not hard to find. This is what the Beeb says, right now:

In reference to www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2635167#extra-uk-content:

Weather Warning
Thursday 4th October
YELLOW WARNING of RAIN
Heavy rain is likely to move eastwards across southwest England on Thursday evening.
With the ground already being almost saturated, the public should be aware of the risk of localised flooding.
Valid on Thursday from 1900 until 2355.
Thursday 4th October
YELLOW WARNING of RAIN
There is the potential for periods of heavy rain across parts of Southwest England, Wales and southwestern parts of the Midlands from the beginning of Friday until Saturday morning. The heavy rain will also be accompanied by strong winds or gales along the southern coastal areas at times.
However there remains considerable uncertainty in the northward extent of this heavy rain and the area covered by the Alert is likely to be adjusted further as the event approaches.
The public should be aware of the possibility of disruption to travel due to localised flooding.
Valid from 0005 Friday until 0600 Saturday.
Thursday 4th October
YELLOW EARLY WARNING of RAIN
Further periods of heavy rain are likely to affect Southwest England and parts of Wales during Sunday and Monday. There is still considerable uncertainty over the details of the heavy rain and the alert area shown adjusted as the event approaches.
The public should be aware of the possibility of disruption to travel due to localised flooding
Valid from 0005 Sunday until 2355 Monday.
Flood Warning
Thursday 4th October
There are flood warnings currently in force in the following region: NORTHEAST (3).
Further updates will appear here.

That's both the EA and the Met Office involved.

But that is beside the point. The conversation was about general winter weather, not immediate warnings. And again, you choose to interrupt, and offer an opinion that, once again is defeated by the tiniest amount of research.

You, sir, are a troll

In reply to a post by Bob_s2:

The bigger concern is that BT clearly cannot meet the existing demand so exatcly how are they going to be able to take on the BDUK wwork with it's tight timescales and penalty clauses for not meeting them.. Will BT then divert resorces from other work to avoid paying out money for failing to meet BDUK contracts?

Another hijack, based on assumptions (the tight timescales and the penalty clauses), based on a project that has no specific plans yet. All to further a personal agenda.

Yawn.

Trolling is not welcome, if you want to play that game then go elsewhere.

You made a perfectly reasonable opening post, though as has been said it is normal to give at a minimum the link to the source of your info, and preferably to find the original source and link to that as well.

I even supported you against a criticism!

The once a decent discussion gets going a bit, you come back being silly again. Thus destroying what might have been the start of not being a troll.

In reply to a post by Ribble:

36 hour basic working week.

A fairly normal working week then, our fitters do 40 + O/T, it would be nice to do the longer working day and have more days off.

I doubt the darkness would be as much as a problem if they are kitted out with flood lighting.

The 'big boys' but the singleton engineers, it's a helmet lamp and a hand torch. There is 'WITHOD' gear (working in the hours of darkness) but the lamps are precious little use if you've to climb a pole. You end up with what you actually want to see being lost in your own shadow. Since the stance is 'you make your own risk assessment' most won't climb after dark, as any enquiry re an accident would put the blame squarely with the engineer.

I have heard that in current conditions there is something called contractual overtime so I suspect very few are only doing 36 hours at present!.

Maybe Zarjaz would like to comment, although I think he is an an area not affected by flooding at present.

Anywhere other than the South East and East Anglia seems to have had some flooded areas over the past two weeks.

IIRC they get compulsory overtime. Nice! Great for planning a social or entertainment life, (we diary over a year ahead!), or even taking the kids out for a treat.

Openreach have envoked contractual overtime (COT) on the several occasions since its inception 2 years ago. I dont believe they can invoke it again in the near future due to contractual agreements that limit its use.

Last period of COT was over the summer hols. Nice ... I think not.

Contractual overtime has been evoked twice this year already, and Openreach head Liv Garfield has informed that it will not been done again this year .....

However, they have asked everyone to input overtime availability up to Christmas, so keen are they to know how many additional hours they can book out.

I am in the South East, but no flooding round this way at present.

Only finished at the end of September round here.

LOL

Did anyone else note that, while the thread *does* talk about winter weather, and darkness, and the effect on Openreach engineers... there was no actual mention of flooding *anywhere* until Bob_s2 complained that there were no floods at the moment.

The one post that *did* mention the word "flood" was actually talking about flood lighting!

So, in case you wondered why you never got any answers to your questions - it's obviously because he doesn't take the time to actually read what you post.

Might be of help

http://www.shoothill.com/FloodMap/

Aye, right in the kids summer holidays, they wanted 9 days over 3 months! while I could always use some extra money losing a day a week that I needed to teach my son how to swim was not welcome and the money does not help me get the time back...

Anyway logged about an extra 20-30hrs OT per week inc end of day and full OT days. Not doing any OT days now COT is over but finished the last few nights between 21:00 and 22:00... just got in 30mins ago and already on this site - how sad is that!

Edited by deleted (Thu 04-Oct-12 22:31:42)

Not sad at all. You come to be cheered up by all the wonderful comments about Openreach ...
.
.
.
.
by the 'iggerant!

In reply to a post by tommy45:

Those who work in the transport industry can work 6 days a week and shifts can be upto 15hrs ,(Heavy goods) 3.5t van drivers even longer hours. And they (bt engineers) think that their wage is poor!!! they want to try working a full week every week then their wage will increase and so will productivity, little wonder that they are so far behind with installs ect,

Whats that saying... "walk a mile in my shoes?" Until you do the job you have no idea so don't be a clown telling us what you consider a full week is, how hard we work or far behind we are...

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Not sad at all. You come to be cheered up by all the wonderful comments about Openreach ...
.
by the 'iggerant!

meh, don't care if people want to rant about Openreach or BT (organisations) but when it comes to people trying to make out the staffing situation is somehow the fault of the boots on the ground I find that a bit BS.

Fact is there is a huge fibre roll-out project underway which takes massive resource in itself coupled with severe weather causing damage to both overhead and underground line plant. Resources have to be juggled, OR is already employing record levels of contractors but their deal is they only do simple work... so broadband faults, UG faults etc are left to fully skilled direct labour... its not like you can just throw tools at some guys at the job centre and expect them to perform, they end up doing more harm then good (cause more faults) its been tried.4

anyway preaching to the choir i know

Edited by deleted (Thu 04-Oct-12 23:14:09)

BT though have had an ever-increasing backlog now for over two years and that nothing much appears to be being done other than attempting a bit of fire fighting.

Believe it or not the UK gets a lot of rain every year it is a normal part of the UK climate as is some flooding.

I suspect that a lot of the problem is that BT has seriously underestimated the work in rolling out FTTC and that they are over budget hence the reluctance to take on more resource.
I suspect they have also underestimate the cost of maintaining distributed active equipment in an uncontrolled environment and that they are having to use far more resource maintaining the equipment than planned
The next mega issue will be the BDUK work is now starting to come on stream. Most at present is in the BT planning phase but once it goes to the installation phase BT are in mega trouble as they have no resource for it.

In reply to a post by Bob_s2:

BT though have had an ever-increasing backlog now for over two years and that nothing much appears to be being done other than attempting a bit of fire fighting.

They are clearly ahead of the original schedule.

Believe it or not the UK gets a lot of rain every year it is a normal part of the UK climate as is some flooding.

The overwhelming body of evidence is that that the last couple of years hve been highly exceptional wrt rainfall and flooding.

I suspect that a lot of the problem is that BT has seriously underestimated the work in rolling out FTTC and that they are over budget hence the reluctance to take on more resource.

As above - they are ahead of schedule. They have also taken on considerable extra staff.

I suspect they have also underestimate the cost of maintaining distributed active equipment in an uncontrolled environment and that they are having to use far more resource maintaining the equipment than planned

Once more something in your imagination, or simply deliberately invented, with zilch evidence. Pure trolling.

The next mega issue will be the BDUK work is now starting to come on stream. Most at present is in the BT planning phase but once it goes to the installation phase BT are in mega trouble as they have no resource for it.

Ditto. In addition, the BDUK funding will go where, if it doesn't go to resourcing the installation phase?

In reply to a post by Bob_s2:

Where is this flooding. The Met Office and environment agency have no reported instances of flooding anywhere in the UK

Where?
You need to watch the news, then have been numerous major incidents reported recently and now that it has subsided work has to be done to repair the damage it caused.

In reply to a post by Bob_s2:

Where is this flooding. The Met Office and environment agency have no reported instances of flooding anywhere in the UK

In reference to www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/weather/9587811/Weather-48-hour-washout-...:

Weather: 48 hour washout as Met Office warns of further flooding
More flooding was expected in the south west of Britain on Friday as hot tropical air from ex-Hurricane Nadine collides with bitter Arctic sparking a 48 hour washout.

Edited by deleted (Fri 05-Oct-12 11:28:14)

In reply to a post by Bob_s2:

BT though have had an ever-increasing backlog now for over two years and that nothing much appears to be being done other than attempting a bit of fire fighting.

Believe it or not the UK gets a lot of rain every year it is a normal part of the UK climate as is some flooding.

Complete rubbish, at the low points in the year we were getting to provides within a week of ordering - this includes all the OMC and Exchange work done first before the install engineer attended. The backlog started from the summer onwards and is at its peak now.

As for flooding being the norm, you really need to go check your facts, this weather is unpresidented, Its only normal if you take the last couple of years in isolation - no company would take on a permanet workforce based on a couple of years of data, yet:

Openreach has in that time swelled its numbers with record numbers of contractors doing reactive faults and provison work + formed a permanet moblie workforce on longterm contracts mostly made up of ex-military personnel for the primary purpose of facilitating the FTTC roll-out - what they won't do is now train a new army of engineers to tackle a sudden storm - since proper training takes months... by they time they would be ready the storm damage will already be repaired - as the last couple of years has shown.

Edited by deleted (Fri 05-Oct-12 13:22:18)

http://www.offta.org.uk/charts.htm provides some metrics/data to through into the mix