What are the odds my exchange will get ADSL2

Hello all

I just wondered what the odds were my local exchange will get ADSL2 now the infinity roll out is happening? I know full well I am never ever ever ever ever going to see the likes of BT Infinity in the next 5+ years but just ADSL2 as a minimum, so we can have some other providers would be a start.

Reckon this could happen?

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/SDSLNFL

What do you mean by "other providers"? A lot of people seem to think on exchanges lke that they can only get BT Broadband.

(You mean ADSL2+ by the way. ADSL2 is not the same thing by a long way as ADSL2+).

Even on ADSL, are you sure you are getting the best speed possible for your line? If you can find and post your router stats, see here for help, we may be able to improve it. Many people have gained well over 1Mbps by a simple DIY job.

Probably never, size of exchange suggests that if West Sussex council BDUK project does boost speeds with superfast that probably be linked to another exchange, with in a decade or so time the exchange vanishing totally

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

What do you mean by "other providers"? A lot of people seem to think on exchanges lke that they can only get BT Broadband.

(You mean ADSL2+ by the way. ADSL2 is not the same thing by a long way as ADSL2+).

Even on ADSL, are you sure you are getting the best speed possible for your line? If you can find and post your router stats, see here for help, we may be able to improve it. Many people have gained well over 1Mbps by a simple DIY job.

Okay, other providers that aren't using BT wholesale. BT reckons I would get 2 at best, I'm getting 2.5 on a good day. I want to be able to take advantage of well priced broadband. Can't take advantage of low o2 costs, can't get talk talk can't get Sky unless I wan't they're access package like o2 which is expensive and with small data caps.

I'm a 10 minute drive from where they're rolling out BT infinity and it's just a shame we can't do 2 things at once online in this household.

It's not awful, it's just not good.

We can't help without the stats. Though if those show there isn't any room for improvement then that's a shame.

Unless you've been through this loop, there is a fair chance the stats will show something can be done.

It's been a while since we've had a look so now the line has been in 4 months and the broadband has settled worth going again

Link Information

Uptime: 15 days, 11:12:53

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.1

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 4.512

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 882,42 / 1,99

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,1 / 19,4

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 27,5 / 51,0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 20,0 / 4,3

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / TSTC

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / -

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / -

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / -

Loss of Link (Remote): -

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 2.663 / -

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 167 / 49.710.057

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 142 / 5.031

HEC Errors (Up/Down): -42 / 5.031 / 40.328


Results from http://www.speedtester.bt.com

Download speedachieved during the test was - 3.22 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 0.6 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :4.51 Mbps(DOWN-STREAM), 0.45 Mbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 3.5 Mbps


Speedtest.net

http://www.speedtest.net/result/2331672876.png

http://linetest.pulsant.co.uk

Last Result:
Download Speed: 3203 kbps (400.4 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 368 kbps (46 KB/sec transfer rate)
Latency: 79 ms
Jitter: 9 ms
Packet Loss: 0%
25 November 2012 23:11:32 GMT

Pingtest.net

http://www.pingtest.net/result/72879490.png



My main issue is the upload speed, though I am afraid that is actually the best it will ever be on this line. I have to do a lot of work moving files between web servers as part of my job, often use a VPN for work too and it's painful at times.

I didn't know if it be a good idea doing all these tests now as this is when the internet is at its best, but consequently when I'd normally be asleep.

Thanks for your help.

Edited by deleted (Sun 25-Nov-12 23:15:10)

Not a lot of room for improvement there in the downstream, though possibly a few hundred kbps. An absolute maximum of about 5200kbps.

However, an increase of 32kbps would get you to a 4000kbps IP Profile instead of 3500kbps. That's what determines your maximum downstream throughput, and that would be a 14% increase. You are unlikely to get to the next step, 5120kbps giving an IP Profile of 4500kbps.

Have you ever tried a "daylight hours" connection using the test socket, on the wall at the back in this pic? The stats taken immediately after connecting there would tell us the best you can achieve. You need the router connected with just the ADSL cable and a filter - no phone extension cable.

If you try it, make a note of the colours of wire attached to each terminal, as per that pic, and posts the details of those as well as the stats .

Re the upload, there is a 832kbps option with most ISPs, but it may cost you more. (The 448kbps you have is a capped speed, not a free sync). Your line should be able to achieve the 832kbps sync. Which ISP are you with, and which package?

I'd like to see what size of exchange is the threshold people think would be liable ADSL2+

talktalk covers 94% of households with 2,400 exchanges, leaving 3,000 to cover last 6% which is 1.5m

BT Wholesale is way behind at around 80 to 85% coverage

I can answer one question now

Post Office package http://www.postoffice.co.uk/broadband-extra

What do you consider day time?

I will be home at 6 ish?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

talktalk covers 94% of households with 2,400 exchanges, leaving 3,000 to cover last 6% which is 1.5m

BT Wholesale is way behind at around 80 to 85% coverage

I'm a little confused? Surely BT is every exchange? Or is that just BT and then BT wholesale is something else?

Just be nice for someone to come along and unbundle and for BT to push it to ADSL2+

In reply to a post by chris6273:

I'd like to see what size of exchange is the threshold people think would be liable ADSL2+

950 aha

In reply to a post by brandscill:

I'm a little confused? Surely BT is every exchange?

Yes, BT owns all exchanges. It just that they have not upgraded all exchanges to 21CN ADSL2+; some, like yours, are only 20CN ADSL Max.

Mr S was talking about percentage ADSL2+ coverage. Even ADSL itself is not available at all exchanges (there are 3 not very many miles from you in West Sussex that don't have ADSL).

Have to hope that BDUK funding covers your exchange but as West Sussex hasn't yet let their tender it may be a little while before you know.

In reply to a post by ian72:

there are 3 not very many miles from you in West Sussex that don't have ADSL

Please name one?

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/SDSTMRD

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Not a lot of room for improvement there in the downstream, though possibly a few hundred kbps. An absolute maximum of about 5200kbps.

However, an increase of 32kbps would get you to a 4000kbps IP Profile instead of 3500kbps. That's what determines your maximum downstream throughput, and that would be a 14% increase. You are unlikely to get to the next step, 5120kbps giving an IP Profile of 4500kbps.

Have you ever tried a "daylight hours" connection using the test socket, on the wall at the back in this pic? The stats taken immediately after connecting there would tell us the best you can achieve. You need the router connected with just the ADSL cable and a filter - no phone extension cable.

If you try it, make a note of the colours of wire attached to each terminal, as per that pic, and posts the details of those as well as the stats .

Re the upload, there is a 832kbps option with most ISPs, but it may cost you more. (The 448kbps you have is a capped speed, not a free sync). Your line should be able to achieve the 832kbps sync. Which ISP are you with, and which package?

My package: Post Office package http://www.postoffice.co.uk/broadband-extra

Stats from test socket:

Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 0:02:24

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.1

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 3.968

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 994,62 / 1,99

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,3 / 19,3

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 27,5 / 51,0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 19,0 / 9,4

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / TSTC

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 9 / -

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 1 / -

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / -

Loss of Link (Remote): -

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 2.882 / -

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 186

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0

HEC Errors (Up/Down): - / 0 / 0

Pictures from socket (no extensions in the house)

Actual socket

No wires on the backplate, is this because there is no extension?

backplate

BT Result:

Download speedachieved during the test was - 3.15 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 0.6 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :3.94 Mbps(DOWN-STREAM), 0.45 Mbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 3.5 Mbps

The NM has risen to 9 dB, so damping your speed by 0.5 Meg. ES are extremely high.

The thing you call 'backplate' is actually the faceplate. There are no wires on it cuz you have no extensions.

What does it mean though? Can anything be done?

I think the Local ES figure is held at the DSLAM - some wierd logic in the labelling. Only resets if the line is reset at the DSLAM. So 219 since last night.

I think the sync-time margin was probably already set at 9dB 15 days ago, and would account for the slightly low original sync.

On that subject, I'll reply to the OP's post .

Oops - gone the wrong way, but no effect at all on your real download speed.

Did you do the re-sync and take the stats immediately before that post? It shows an uptime of 2 minutes. My line "Have you ever tried a "daylight hours" connection using the test socket, on the wall at the back in this pic?" is very important, as background noise, (as opposed to faults or spikes), is usually much higher when it is dark. That could explain the lower connection speed (called bandwidth by your router) than before - where we wanted a 32kbps gain.

If you can't be around during daylight, the best thing is not to mess until you can - say at the weekend .

Have a read of my Old IP Profile page, and also the Noise margin/SNRM, DLM and Troubleshooting >> High noise margin pages. They will help you understand a bit about what is going on .

Is that socket mounted horizontally? Who installed it? I'm not completely happy about it ....

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 26-Nov-12 19:51:03)

I rebooted the modem and got the stats as quickly as I could.

I can do it again tomorrow morning at about 8:20?

The socket is mounted on the window sill. There was an ancient socket there when I moved in and when BT came they just swapped it out for the new one.

That sounds OK then . I was wondering if it was a DIY job by someone and possible was an extension in the first place.

[cough] Is it reasonable daylight at 8:20?

(Use the main socket as if you get 4544kbps we don't want to have to disconnect ).

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I think the Local ES figure is held at the DSLAM - some wierd logic in the labelling. Only resets if the line is reset at the DSLAM. So 219 since last night.

I'm pretty sure it's the other way round; hence the term "Local". With my BrightBox, where it is called "Near End", ES is reset to zero whenever I hard reboot it, but not when it just re-syncs or re-connects. Depends on if OP actually switched off/on and not just moved cable.

Okay no problem, I'll get the stats from the main socket tomorrow morning

In reply to a post by brandscill:

I rebooted the modem

How? Did you actually power it off then on?

No, I just restarted it.

Would you like me to power off tomorrow morning?

It helps to assess the error counts from cold.

No problem. I will switch off and on and take stats tomorrow morning

Hello

Stats this morning after a reboot.

Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 0:00:22

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.1

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 4.448

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 38,97 / 2,27

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,3 / 19,4

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 27,5 / 51,0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 19,0 / 9,1

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / TSTC

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / -

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / -

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / -

Loss of Link (Remote): -

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / -

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0

HEC Errors (Up/Down): - / 0 / 0


Is there anything I can do about the upload?

Ah well . Still 96kbps short. The only real cure for that is to wait and see if the sync-time noise margin drops in a couple of weeks to 6dB from its current 9dB, which would give over 500kbps extra, or ask the PO to get it reset. The latter is not a good idea just now, for two reasons - see what comes next here.

Re the upload, I am fairly sure the PO do not offer ADSL Max Premium. That is the same product as yours but with the upload capped at 832kbps not 448kbps. The way to get that, assuming they don't do it but no harm in asking, is to migrate to an ISP that does. I suggest you start a new thread for that with an appropriate Subject, either in this section or in Which ISP? You would be able to leave the phone with the PO if you want.

Migration to such an ISP is the minor reason for not bothering too much about the noise margin, but the main one is that we need to try to monitor your noise margin. There's no point in going through what can be a lot of hassle to get that reduced if your line is subject to wide noise swings or spikes.

There are programs you can run on many routers, that do this without slowing your throughput. What router have you got? We should be able to recommend such a program.

Technicolor TG582n but it's in bridge mode to an Apple Time Capsule

I don't know about ADSL2+ (either where BT rolls out 21CN WBC, or an LLU provider arrives), but I was doing some checks on how BDUK funding appears to have changed *fibre* coverage in North Yorkshire - where the council have stated that they've chosen coverage over speed (FTTC over FTTP).

Even though there has been no overt announcement of the BDUK plans, the Openreach SFBB planner is now showing an awful lot of exchanges as "FE", with dates of 2013 and 2014. Currently, of the 146 exchanges in the county, only 18 had been included in the commercial rollout. The new plans leave only 8 exchanges without service.

Of those 8, the average number of lines is 275 and the largest one serves 579.

And of the ones now in the plan, there are 3 that are smaller than 200 lines, and 8 smaller than 300 lines.

Sounds promising?

As for ADSL2+...

My suspicion is that BDUK funding of exchanges for SFBB might well cause BT to re-think the rollout of some of the 21CN ADSL2+ coverage. Particularly if ADSL2+ isn't going to help hit the USC (2Mbps) commitment for lines that can't get SFBB.

In a similar vein, the likes of Talk-Talk would seem unlikely to want to add their own ADSL2+ hardware to an exchange if BDUK funding causes faster hardware to be installed for a significant proportion. They might as well wait, and then only install the backhaul equipment.

So, I suspect that a lot of further plans for ADSL2+ are probably stalled until BDUK plans become clear.

Thanks for that information, very interesting. I think by the time anything is done in my area I would have likely moved back to the city! Fingers crossed at least.

Forget about ADSL, it seems Kijoma offers Wimax (think long range wifi) broadband in your area:
http://www.kijoma.net/tiki-index.php?page=where

30 meg down/ 10 meg up connection is priced at ~ £30 pm (ex vat) so not too expensive. I used to be with a similar provider called Telabria in Kent 5-6 years ago...until they went bust But the actual wimax servcie was superb, they put a small antenna on your roof and as long as you have a clear line of sight to their transmitter, then you'll have a rock solid wimax connection.

Usage limits are the only concern. Not because I will frequently hit them but some months I do a lot of work from home and going over would be mighty expensive. Post Office BB as it is might be slow but at least if I leave it going overnight every night I don't get hit with a large bill.

I might consider it at the end of the contract though, just hope they can mount somewhere other than roof as it's a rented property and it will be a no no to the antenna on roof. I like the idea of unlimited 30mb downloads over night. Be useful when working with large server moves

Edited by deleted (Sun 30-Dec-12 23:01:33)