noisy line and disconnects?

Since about 1130hrs on 19th December, I have seen an increase in packet loss, periodic increase in latency, crackly voice line, and periodic disconnects of the DSL, some of these disconnects coincide with talking on the phone. I have changed the filters, and even changed the modem (from a Cisco DSL-WIC1 to a vigor120), disconnected all bar one phone, and plugged direct into the BT master socket (thereby eliminating internal wiring). The BT master socket is not one of the new ones with a face plate and socket behind it. It was here when we moved in, and I guess must be at least 10 to 15 years old. The incoming BT line is overhead and goes through the middle of three trees.

When working (which is most of the time) we get about 3608 Kbps down, about 851 Kbps, SNR Margin 5, Loop Att 33.

I have reported the problem to BT but they say it is a fault within the property, and closed the first fault without telling me. I raised the fault again, and hope they at least send someone out to look this time.

I am presuming this is a fault with the incoming BT line even though BT say it is a fault within the property. If anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know.

My question is: Does anyone have any advise on how to get BT to change the BT Master, and the overhead cable (without charging me)? as I presume the cable is at least 10 to 15 years old too.

If there is anything else you need to know, please ask.

Many thanks,

Edited by deleted (Thu 27-Dec-12 22:49:00)

Do the BT Quiet Line Test (17070 Opt 2) w/out router connected. If you hear any noise report it as a voice fault; do not talk about the BB.

10-15 years is not old for an overhead cable.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 27-Dec-12 23:05:19)

Thank you, I will test it in the morning.

Hi, welcome to the forums .

First I'd just like to correct a misconception. It could be important.

You say the master socket is not one of the modern ones with the bottom half of the faceplate removable revealing a test socket. That being the case, plugging the router into that socket makes little or no difference in terms of eliminating the internal wiring. It's the existence of internal wiring connected to the master socket that matters most, not whether or not it is use.

I gather you are with Goscomb for your broadband, and that your phone line rental is still with BT. Is that right?

What did you report to BT the first time? Just a crackly line, or did you tell them about the broadband problems? If you did the latter that could account for you getting nowhere. What did you report the second time?

If you haven't already done this, I suggest you unplug your ADSL kit, any Sky boxes, and all phones but one. That one preferably being a corded not a cordless one. (You can get these cheap from several places and they are always useful for this sort of thing). Cordless phones and their power plugs can themselves be the cause of problems like this. I might even unplug them from the power in your situation.

Check what you think is the master socket really is. It has a capacitor as in the LJ 2/1A shown here. The extensions are probably LJ 2/3As, seen next to it.

With the phone plugged into the master, dial 17070 and take Option 2. It should give you silence apart from the repeating message at intervals.

Have you looked to see if there is anything worrisome about the line as it goes through the trees? Such as it being forced badly out of line in any direction by growing branches? How about a pair of binoculars on it to see if there are any obvious worn areas in the outer?

Did I really take that long typing my reply?

Hello, and thank you,

Yes, Goscomb for broadband and BT for phone.

I have always reported crackly and noisy line. Never mentioned the broadband.

We have a filter in the master, then a three way splitter off the filter. The extensions are CAT6 structured wiring with rats tails to the phone. I disconnected the splitter and plugged one corded phone into the filter before posting, this removes any extension phones and their wiring. I will check what type of master it is and dial 17070 option 2 in the morning.

Yes, I have looked as best I can at the cable outside the house, but can not see any obvious wear. The cable goes about ten degrees up to a branch (which moves in the wind), over it and ten degrees down the other side, through a conifer inside which I can not see, and then brushes a large branch (which does not move in the wind) of a Horse Chesnut.

Thank you

I think you are saying that all the extensions are connected in through the splitter? None hard-wired into the back of the master. If that is so, then as you say - removing the splitter will disconnect the wiring.

But why do you need the splitter filter to use just the corded phone?

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 28-Dec-12 09:45:13)

The cable goes about ten degrees up to a branch (which moves in the wind), over it and ten degrees down the other side

So the branch is holding the cable up and tight and may have eroded the insulation.

I wasn't clear if you have a single BT socket and do everything from the front of that, or if there are wired extensions from the back or from a junction box (as opposed to plugged in).

yes, branch is holding the cable up, however, it does not appear to be tight, but then again, it is not sagging on either side of the branch.

We have a single BT socket and do everything from the front of it, everything is plug in.

About to do the 17070 option 2 test.

The filter is so we can have the DSL working at the same time as the phone. For the purposes of testing 17070 option 2 etc. The corded phone just plugs into the master.

Check what you think is the master socket really is. It has a capacitor as in the LJ 2/1A shown here. The extensions are probably LJ 2/3As, seen next to it.

It is an LJ2 the 1A or 3A has been obscured by paint (yes, on the inside) however because it has components which while not in the same place look like the 1A and because it should be a master, I suspect it is a LJ 2/1A

17070 option 2 gives crackling and clicking with a repeating message at intervals.

The clue is the capacitor - the cylindrical component. At the top in the LJ 2/1A, bottom in the 1/1A, and anything similar that might not be "BT".

If that quiet line test consistently gives crackling and clicking, say a couple more tests at a couple of hours interval, you should be safe enough for it to be evident when an engineer is on the job. SO avoiding any charges.

I'm surprised the BT automatic tester doesn't pick it up.

There are several different BT LJ2/1A variants with components in different places - just depended on who manufactured them.

In reply to a post by gdsm:

17070 option 2 gives crackling and clicking with a repeating message at intervals.

You can auto test and report a voice fault here: https://www.bt.com/consumerFaultTracking/public/faul...

The movement caused by the tree branch may be straining the joints at either end of the overhead cable or even the end fixings, without there being any obvious damage at the branch contact point.

Hi gdsm,

Is the fault still open with BT?

If you need help getting the fault progressed feel free to send in your details via the web form below and we'll be able to take a closer look at this:

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/contact_email/c/4950

Thanks,

Stephanie

Thank you, I have just posted the details via the web form you specified.

The capacitor is at the top, the front has BT stamped into the plastic. I will carry out a few more tests as you suggested. Whenever I have spoken to BT, they have had to telephone me on my mobile because they can not hear me due to the crackling and clicking, but they still tell me their automated system says there is not a fault.

Thank you

Thank you, I wish I had read your post before telephoning BT this afternoon.

At the house end, it has a loop of cable before connecting to the junction box so I doubt their is any strain at the house end, but I am not sure about the pole end.

the loop of cable is between the strained part and the JB, with a wire gadget transferring the strain to the wall usually via an eye hook. An unstrained loop can't exist on the end of an overhead cable without something else taking the strain, the loop would just pullout - if the cable isn't under tension it is visibly wiggly in most cases.

Agreed there are strain-relief loops at the two suspension ends; BUT some of the movement can be transferred through the loops to the joints, thus weakening them; and potentially allowing moisture to creep in, either directly rain or condensate from the water vapour in the air.

The Humidity levels this year have been particularly high, precursors of the record-breaking rain, leading to the Floods of 2012. (And we have not looked at any underground runs!)

The loops themselves can be buffeted by the wind, particularly as so many of them are exposed to the vortices at the corners of buildings etc.

Either way, corrosion can start in the copper wiring, usually oxidation - and some of the older participants on the forum may remember Copper-Oxide Rectifiers particularly as seen in the old/ancient Battery Eliminators and slightly less far back, in the SenTerCell EHT Pencil Rectifiers.

One of my occupations was to teach Fault Finding Principles, applicable to the full range of RAF Electronic Equipment - most of which was installed (exstalled?) in severe environments.

Signs, Symptons, Diagnosis, Treatment, Prognosis!

Understood thank you.

Several tests to 17070 option 2 result in crackly line.

Thank you,

Well, it is definitely not wiggly.

Just keep plugging away at getting that noise fixed. The broadband should be fine afterwards, though it might take a fair while to self-correct.

I am doing, I am ignoring the broadband, because there is no point in having broadband if the voice line is unusable.

bt line tests can pass even though the line is noisy.new test heads are CIDT which can detect noise issues.your problem sounds like a HR DIs fault which is 1 leg breaking down.these can be hard to find unless the noise is present when the engineer is on site and also if the engineer is using a newer hand held tester.eventually a hr will snap and these are very easy to find.i know the bb is suffering because of the line but i would report the bb as bb engineers have to store a pair quality pass where as a line engineer doesnt. hope this a help

Hello, and thank you.

Robster you were bang on target regarding the fault.

The engineer came out, looked up at the cable and said "it will be a connection at either end of the overhead cable" or words to that effect. Sure enough, the insulation of one of the cables had been nicked and moisture had cause the copper to corrode (rust like but blue) When he poked it, the line fell apart. Two minutes later it was re-punched and tested fine. We tested the bb and it came in at 6mbit which we have never had since we moved in 8 years ago!

Thank you everyone for your assistance it was much appreciated