Why do people need superfast connection?

I'm just curious about why people need superfast broadband.

If you can get a decent ADSL2+ connection, then why do people need or choose FTTx or whatever? Or are people choosing Fibre mainly because their alternative copper connection is dodgy?

Thanks to anyone who can clarify...

In reply to a post by FordStanza:

I'm just curious about why people need superfast broadband.

If you can get a decent ADSL2+ connection, then why do people need or choose FTTx or whatever? Or are people choosing Fibre mainly because their alternative copper connection is dodgy?

Thanks to anyone who can clarify...

Faster uploads.

I have two teenage kids, between the three of us, we can now all be streaming in HD with no hiccups.

For those getting 12 Meg or more from Adsl2+ then it is a harder cost to justify but as many dont the upgrade to superfast can mean hd streaming is now possible and uploading to cloud services is a lot easiet.

Also support for more people watching tv streams

As has been said faster uploads can be a big plus, I upload lots to youtube. Currently I am not on Fibre so can only upload at 0.30meg so I go to my parents to upload videos which is a complete pain. My download is rubbish as well though 1.9 cant wait for fibre!

A single user will find it hard to justify if already getting 10Mbps+ ... I know I'll find it hard to justify and have just started a new contract for ADSL2+ (but then what ex-O2 customer could turn down free Sky unlimited broadband and TV for a year?). Also FTTC doesn't seem to be happening here ... delay after delay even with permission now granted for the cabinet's location.

For households with multiple users it starts to become a necessity, especially if ADSL speeds are low.

Those that need a decent upload will also take the jump to FTTC when available.

I suppose some of it is the same as cars the limit on the motorway is 70Mph but the average new car will do 120Mph+. What is the point in that???

Great answers everyone - thanks! I'd overlooked the multi-bod households and the upload advantages. I'm pretty much a download-only guy who's been happy with my near 8Mb connection and just about to upgrade to ADSL2+ so I was curious as to what people do with fibre. Now I know...

Post deleted by Sadoldman

In reply to a post by Lethe:

Being on the 'net since 1995 with a 33.6kbs modem,

Nick
P.S. when I was a kid, there was no mobile phones/internet - so when I went out for hours on end to play football, cycle or whatever, my parents never knew where I was or what I was up to - but it didn't matter.

33.6kbps! Luxury! My first modem was 28.8 kbps but the local Compuserv number only served at 14.4. If you wanted faster you had to dial London at the premium rate. But you are dead right about getting out and about as a kid. Very few even had phones at home. I remember calling a neighbour (phone boxes had directories in them those days) and asking her to tell my Mum I wouldn't be home as I was camping on Box Hill.

In reply to a post by FordStanza:

why do people need or choose FTTx or whatever?

Because I can

Nothing wrong with wanting more than the minimum that will allow you to perform any particular task.

Speedtests for bragging rights seems to be pretty popular. Th'internet makes children of us all.

Most people still prefer the "old" pastimes, but they don't hang around on forums for the sad and bored.

Doing it "because you can" is fine, but why should the rest of us pay for it through government subsidies (or indeed our utility bills)? The poor subsidising the rich, usually.

Edited by deleted (Wed 26-Jun-13 21:21:54)

In reply to a post by Lethe:

I cannot understand the 'faster uploads' bit

Once use of that is to watch stuff on your home PVR from a remote location while away on business for example on the other side of the world.

Because I am too far from the exchange to get anything above 3mbps on ADSL, and the increased upload speeds is becoming more important these days. Ever tried uploading a 10 minute HD video to youtube with a .7mbps upload? Its not nice...

And if like me you live with your family/other heavy users then you really do start to see the benefits of a bigger "pipe", even if you are not using much of that pipe yourself.

Edited by deleted (Wed 26-Jun-13 21:29:19)

11-12 Meg here, and I couldn't justify paying more for faster, but I don't download too much or too often. If one could custom-order their BB connections, I'd have 10 Meg SDSL and sub 20ms pings...and a 50GB monthly allowance.

In reply to a post by gomezz:

One use of that is to watch stuff on your home PVR from a remote location while away on business for example on the other side of the world.

You can't find anything more interesting in your spare time whilst abroad that you have to pretend you are at home doing the the same old?

I have just upgraded from 40/10 to 80/20 and there is certainly no particular "need" for the extra speed but for the sake of an extra £5 per month I may as well have the extra speed available.

I can imagine if you are away from home frequently or for long periods as part of the grind of doing your job then a bit of the same old, same old to chill out to is exactly what you may want at the end of a tiring day in yet another anonymous hotel room.

In reply to a post by Lethe:

I am with you - and reading the replies, I still do not understand it at all.

Being on the 'net since 1995 with a 33.6kbs modem, I cannot understand the 'faster uploads' bit - let alone the 'streaming household' bit also?

Why do people need to 'upload' videos to family? What happened to speaking to them? Why does everybody need to have separate TV's/consoles/gadgets on the net to watch streaming video? Does nobody watch air TV any more/play football/go to the pub?

The world is getting weird and very, very sad.

Nick
P.S. when I was a kid, there was no mobile phones/internet - so when I went out for hours on end to play football, cycle or whatever, my parents never knew where I was or what I was up to - but it didn't matter. Now it seems, everybody is 'integrated' into facebook style lives where they all have to tell each other (with videos) when they have a cr4p et al.

It is not all about family videos that get uploaded, my upload reasons are updating my website, which often means uploading multiple images uploading even 10meg on a 0.3 upload speed is torture. Then when I have to upload a 500 meg plus tutorial video to youtube I have to do this overnight or hog the connection for hours during the day.

I can think of a lot of things to do abroad - job or not - but if I was abroad, the last thing I would think of is 'how fast is my internet connection today'.

You must have a sad job and life but sync at >66mbps.

Nick

In reply to a post by colic:

In reply to a post by Lethe:

I am with you - and reading the replies, I still do not understand it at all.

Being on the 'net since 1995 with a 33.6kbs modem, I cannot understand the 'faster uploads' bit - let alone the 'streaming household' bit also?

Why do people need to 'upload' videos to family? What happened to speaking to them? Why does everybody need to have separate TV's/consoles/gadgets on the net to watch streaming video? Does nobody watch air TV any more/play football/go to the pub?

The world is getting weird and very, very sad.

Nick
P.S. when I was a kid, there was no mobile phones/internet - so when I went out for hours on end to play football, cycle or whatever, my parents never knew where I was or what I was up to - but it didn't matter. Now it seems, everybody is 'integrated' into facebook style lives where they all have to tell each other (with videos) when they have a cr4p et al.

It is not all about family videos that get uploaded, my upload reasons are updating my website, which often means uploading multiple images uploading even 10meg on a 0.3 upload speed is torture. Then when I have to upload a 500 meg plus tutorial video to youtube I have to do this overnight or hog the connection for hours during the day.

OK, 500 meg video? Explain - what is that, a 3 hour film? 500 meg?

Nick

In reply to a post by colic:

It is not all about family videos that get uploaded, my upload reasons are updating my website, which often means uploading multiple images uploading even 10meg on a 0.3 upload speed is torture.

Agreed. Having a 1 Meg upload v 0.3 Meg is massive if you have to upload even a few Meg of data.

No, not many people had phones in the 60's. My Father was a matelot, and when he was away (in the real Navy) 3 to 4 years at a time (I didn't really know him until the 70's), I remember going up with my Mother to the corner shop (who had a telephone!) to get his calls.

Alas, all are gone now...

Nick

If,like me, You live too close to the exchange to get FTTC then the problem is that you have to consider Virgin.

The headline speeds available were 100/5 but if you actually use it for streaming and uploading during the day this becomes 60/1.25 and therein lies the problem. The way the 6 computers of this household use bandwidth requires that we get the top package available just to overcome the extreme asymmetry of the service once the management kicks in.

.... and they keep changing the rules too ....3 times this year.

Supposedly in the next month or two we who live at the end of the world will get the speed upgrade to 120/12 that has been rolled out oh so slowly. Only then do I expect to have fewer issues as 2% upload doesn't cut it for me. In an ideal world I would be looking for >12%.

As to what our connection is used for, I think it is fair to say that with my interests I could happily use a gigabit/200 connection 24/7 quite legally if it were available.... but such research is not in the realms of normal use I know.

The reason I upgraded was for good reasons

Slow speed (2Mbps), with 5 people in the house not if more it isn't enough.

The connection would drop multiple times on a daily basis

Now I'm on FTTC not the greatest speed but 25Mbps is easily enough for us though 3 have moved out but 2Mbps still wouldn't be enough for me alone. Also my connection is steady as a rock at least stable wise, error wise it's horrible too much RFI where I live.

In reply to a post by Lethe:

I cannot understand the 'faster uploads' bit - let alone the 'streaming household' bit also?

We have relatives in Canada & Australia, and a reasonable definition webcam solution would be terrific if upstream speeds were higher (I think Oz has similar upstream speeds to the UK's ADSLmax). Hence why I also mentioned sub 20ms pings. Reducing the latency across any network will work wonders for connections everywhere.

Double post - Deleted

Edited by camieabz (Thu 27-Jun-13 01:37:32)

My superfast broadband connection gets used mostly for two things:

1. Downloading games through services like Steam. Games just keep getting bigger as time goes on and can currently be well in excess of 10GB which would take far too long to download otherwise. (I'm sure people in 10 years stumbling upon this will laugh)

2. Hosting servers which usually requires fairly decent upload speeds, depending on the server.

Final comment rather crudely put...you used censor avoidance to say it.

In reply to a post by Lethe:

I can think of a lot of things to do abroad - job or not - but if I was abroad, the last thing I would think of is 'how fast is my internet connection today'.

You must have a sad job and life but sync at >66mbps.

Nick

Well at least he doesn't spend all his time online judging other people and criticising their way of life

I'm on 40/10Mb FTTC. Primary reason for myself was the increase in upload speed (only 1Mb or possibly 2 to 2.5Mb with ADSL2+ and Annex M). 10Mb upload is a breath of fresh air, just for the reduction in time for uploading high resolution images to Facebook and YouTube videos.

The 40Mb down is nice too, but I see no reason to go faster. Line can probably do about 55Mb down but I can't justify the extra cost for that (£5/month). If I knew I was going to get 20Mbit ADSL2+ where I am, I may have possibly opted for that instead, and made do with a slow upload but since the property would have only got 8Mb down at most with ADSL2+, FTTC was a good choice.

The ratio between upload and download speed is definitely a bit of a joke on cable. You can fix the issue by shaping your outbound traffic, which I did years back when I had basic ADSL on a 1Mb service with 448kb up. If done right, it actually makes heavily asymmetric connections much slicker.

Also I'm not clued up on cable, but I think the slow upload speeds (relative to download) are going to persist on that medium for some time to come due to how the technology works. A 10% ratio on their 120Mb service seems like they are clutching at straws to compete with VDSL and other emerging technologies.

What is sad is commenting on what you imagine other people's life to be.

Yeah, everyone will laugh at our slow 24meg speeds in years to come. I can remember mainframe dial-ups at 1200 or maybe 2400. And anyone who remembers dial-up bulletin boards (before the internet was widely used) will have used something really slow too. I think my first dial-up internet was 9.6k.

I actually admire the people above who said "because I can". Your desire to explore today's boundaries creates the mass market product of tomorrow.

Sorry, did I miss out the 'because I can' bit. Mine is free, why wouldn't you ?

I apologise.

I was just trying to emphasis how 80% of the Internet now is just utter junk.

It will not happen again.

Nick

Well, I was in a bit of grumpy mood yesterday, so sorry for the way it came across. But really, if people can't exist today without 'super fast' Internet, let alone just an Internet connection, what happens when it all goes pear shaped?

I think there are two types of people now - those that have been born into the Internet age (i.e. it was always there), and those that can remember times before all this (mobile phones et al).

Nick

You have missed out those who can't remember what is was like before the internet even though they were there and find it handy to use the internet to remind themselves.

If there was a decent ADSL 2+, Sums it up!

In reply to a post by FordStanza:

I'm just curious about why people need superfast broadband.

If you can get a decent ADSL2+ connection, then why do people need or choose FTTx or whatever? Or are people choosing Fibre mainly because their alternative copper connection is dodgy?

Thanks to anyone who can clarify...

To be honest, for most people, I don't believe that the answer is a simple technical response!

The same style of question can be equally applied to Cars, TVs, Clothes, Games, Office Software, etc, etc.

None of it is going to be "absolutely Essential/Desperation", but a combination of "nice-to-have" & "higher-expectations".

When I started on the Internet, I was using a 9.6k Dial-up Modem. Eventually progressing up to 56k. Each time the reason being a combination of the latest "Go-Faster Stripes", but also because Web-Pages were becoming more complex & taking longer to load.

The only reason that I progressed to ADSL (500k at the time) was because my son was starting to download last amounts which was both costly in Telephone Charges & (since I was working away at the time) he was blocking all telephone use.

When I was first on ADSL, it seemed like super-fast but, gradually the Web-Pages got more & more complex & started to slow down the effective throughput.

Accordingly I've progressed through 2M & am now on "upto 24M" (actual 18M), but somehow it no longer seems superfast. Certainly I do not perceive the 2000-fold increase that the basic speed increase would imply!

Unfortunately Fibre is not available in our area but, for the relatively low increase in cost, I would probably go for it if I could.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Mine is free, why wouldn't you ?

Nothing is ever truly "free".

In this case though it is the rest of us who pay!

Nothing is ever truly "free".

In this case though it is the rest of us who pay!

......... because I'm worth it !

Yes we are ! lol as for use well this weekend i hope to be watching the Lions if i can get wiziwig to work . If not its the pub at 11-30AM !

You and me against the world Bert ! Good luck with the wiziwig, mind you the pub won't be a total fail will it !

In reply to a post by Lethe:

In reply to a post by colic:

In reply to a post by Lethe:

I am with you - and reading the replies, I still do not understand it at all.

Being on the 'net since 1995 with a 33.6kbs modem, I cannot understand the 'faster uploads' bit - let alone the 'streaming household' bit also?

Why do people need to 'upload' videos to family? What happened to speaking to them? Why does everybody need to have separate TV's/consoles/gadgets on the net to watch streaming video? Does nobody watch air TV any more/play football/go to the pub?

The world is getting weird and very, very sad.

Nick
P.S. when I was a kid, there was no mobile phones/internet - so when I went out for hours on end to play football, cycle or whatever, my parents never knew where I was or what I was up to - but it didn't matter. Now it seems, everybody is 'integrated' into facebook style lives where they all have to tell each other (with videos) when they have a cr4p et al.

It is not all about family videos that get uploaded, my upload reasons are updating my website, which often means uploading multiple images uploading even 10meg on a 0.3 upload speed is torture. Then when I have to upload a 500 meg plus tutorial video to youtube I have to do this overnight or hog the connection for hours during the day.

OK, 500 meg video? Explain - what is that, a 3 hour film? 500 meg?

Nick

Nope it is a 7 minute 60fps 720p 10,000 bitrate video. I would do 1080p but the upload size is just way too big

In reply to a post by FordStanza:

I'm just curious about why people need superfast broadband.

Well, I've almost always been connected, one way or another. The first stuff was with a 1200/75 modem (you whippersnappers with 9.6k modems!) for Prestel-type services and 300/300 speeds for BBS.

I lived in Sweden for a while in 1989, pre-internet, and can definitely tell you what it felt like to be out of contact with the civilised world. When the only truly viable thing to watch on TV was MTV, you know you are stuffed. And at £5 a pint (1989 prices), the pub wasn't a brilliant alternative either.

I then spent years flying to Sweden regularly - the hotel living, and swapping of timezones wasn't a heap of fun at all. You'd get back worn out, but at least the flights gave you time to read a paper.

[So, @Lethe, save your comments about what you'd get up to when abroad, until you've actually experienced it. It isn't all a bed of roses!]

My first forays online were in 1991 using mail-FTP servers to download linux. No web back then, but Demon followed in 1994.

I then worked in Sweden again for a while in 1998-9, when dial-up was prevalent. It wasn't good enough speed to carry either VoIP or webcam video, so didn't do much for keeping in contact with family. However, you could easily follow world events and news with text/image websites. A vast improvement.

2Mbps broadband in 2000, and "always on" with the phone left free for calls, was an eye-opener that made working from home viable. And readily doable for odd days. Upload was an issue at getting finished product uploaded though.

8Mbps in 2006ish made working from home fully viable for 2 people, with almost no need to attend an office. The upload speed would still be an issue, especially when having to deploy software to clients. But download was plenty.

The 8Mbps could be tested at times by 2008, with 2 users, as video became more prevalent - especially iPlayer.

We moved to 40/10 FTTC in 2011, at roughly the same cost - and I deliberately wanted the higher upload speed for my work. The wife found that this increase in upload speed enabled her to switch to using the office VoIP systems for calls, so we could lose a phone line, making everything cheaper. Download speed was more than enough, then. The increase in package size, and impending teenagerdom for the daughter meant that the speeds are being used more and more now.

And of course, we can now video the family in Australia.

We went to 80/20 in 2012. At first as part of a trial, but later as an integral part of the package. The enhancement is useful, but probably not needed.

Now, of course, there's a whole array of equipment connected. Three mobile phones (and the femto cell, due to poor indoor coverage) and two tablets, three laptops, two desktops and a console. It all adds up.

When the SD PVR (a Topfield; we rather like its re-programmed recording abilities) goes kaput, it'll probably get replaced by something Youview-like, which'll certainly add to the demands.

Our needs change across the day, but I think we need a downstream of around 15-20Mbps, sometimes higher, and an upstream of at least 10Mbps.

In reply to a post by FordStanza:

If you can get a decent ADSL2+ connection, then why do people need or choose FTTx or whatever? Or are people choosing Fibre mainly because their alternative copper connection is dodgy?

The truth is that around 20% can get what I'd class as a decent ADSL2+ speeds - 15Mbps+ at 2km from the exchange.

But once a cabinet is converted to FTTC, that speed is probably available to 85% of the properties connected to it.

So the real gain is for the 65% who can't get decent ADSL2+ speeds but can get those speeds via FTTC.

And VDSL2, on the shorter line segment, generally seems to be more stable than ADSL2+ on the full line length. Less people seem to get issues.

But the real thing is yet to come... BT's full push at triple-play. IPTV, including HD.

In reply to a post by FordStanza:

I actually admire the people above who said "because I can". Your desire to explore today's boundaries creates the mass market product of tomorrow.

Agreed.

A little bit of my justification to spend an extra £1pm (we had a legacy package that was quite pricey) was slightly more than "because I can", but close. Nearer "because if I do, it helps persuade BT to roll it out to more people".

Back in 2000, I was lucky to be on an exchange that was part of the early trials, so I jumped at the chance for a 2Mbps connection. It was free to trial, but the real price later wasn't so easy to swallow. But oh-so-worth doing.

In my case:

a) Because I wanted to be able to upload faster. I upload music (legitimate, mixes I've created, music tracks I'm working on etc). I like using online backup services to make sure if my PC dies/burns/gets nicked I'm good.

b) Because I want to have a decent HD feed going for TV without slowing me down or causing break up when I also decide to do a big download.

c) Because on days like today, when I decide I want to download the new version of Windows Server 2012 to trial and get to grips with the changes, it's really nice having the ISO (again legit) arrive fast so I can get on, instead of hitting download and having to wait all night to get going.

d) A little bit of "because I can"

e) Because at £30 a month (thanks Sky) it's still considerably less than I used to pay for a 512k connection (thanks Zen) back in the day... so it's a no brainer cost wise. (and like WWombat, I remember the days of measuring connection in "bps" )

"baud" even.

Nearer "because if I do, it helps persuade BT to roll it out to more people".

A very good point Wombat.

In reply to a post by therioman:

c) Because on days like today, when I decide I want to download the new version of Windows Server 2012 to trial and get to grips with the changes, it's really nice having the ISO (again legit) arrive fast so I can get on, instead of hitting download and having to wait all night to get going.

I have to admit that the fact I can download an ISO in less time than it takes to burn it to DVD is kind of cool

Time is changing. More and more game demos are getting bigger in file size. More TV streaming are going HD. Cloud services. Families with kids will need 'net access. And this is where ADSL2+ is not fast enough to handle all of them.

My 3 years old kid watch kids TV show via iPlayer and that slows down my connection for my uses. (4 meg down, 1 meg up)

So, yeah I am looking forward to Fibre connection, but it won't be ready till end of year!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

"baud" even.

Oh no!

You will start the debate about the difference between Baud and and bits per second again

No debate necessary.

http://electronicdesign.com/communications/what-s-di...

Not forgetting the wonder of the 300 baud acoustic coupler we used to use.

So DSL works at 4000 baud on each tone.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

Back in 2000, I was lucky to be on an exchange that was part of the early trials, so I jumped at the chance for a 2Mbps connection. It was free to trial, but the real price later wasn't so easy to swallow. But oh-so-worth doing.

I should add one thing...

In all that long history of connecting, getting a fibre-based connection was the second "Wow" moment (the 2Mbps ADSL was obviously the first).

However, the 80/20 speed I'm now getting is very much the first time I've truly felt that I had enough speed. That if someone offered me higher speeds at a greater cost (even just £5pm), I wouldn't automatically take it.

That'll change, I'm sure...

I currently get 46 down and 20 up and the only reason I would look to change at present is for the guaranteed certainty on FTTPoD. The fact my speed is better than the BT estimate and the cab is fairly new means I am expecting some slow downs as more people connect.

If it wasn't a 3 year contract I would sign up for FTTPoD (no real issue with the install or monthly costs but I hate any contract more than about 12 months - 18 months absolute max).

I started off hooking to Prestel via an acoustic modem, and remember well the days of having to search boards for software you then had to figure out for yourself to get anywhere at all. Many of those full of 'knowledge' in the well sheltered WIMP environment of today would probably be like a fish out of water.

Edited by professor973 (Fri 28-Jun-13 13:30:59)

In reply to a post by FordStanza:

I'm just curious about why people need superfast broadband.

If you can get a decent ADSL2+ connection, then why do people need or choose FTTx or whatever? Or are people choosing Fibre mainly because their alternative copper connection is dodgy?

Thanks to anyone who can clarify...

Your question is a huge if.

the amount of people that can get 24mbit on adsl2+ is a pittance, even 16mbit+ is only single digit % figures.

The real advantage of FTTC is not the headline 80mbit speeds but rather the huge jump in average speeds, average speeds go from 8-12mbit to over 30mbit. Plus a noticeable jump in upload speeds and stability.

Things that are really taking of now are cloud services and media streaming services.

A big if indeed.

We're in Twickenham and on our best ADSL speed was 5Mb/s with quite a lot of errors. One person in the house could just about watch something on iPlayer but at the expense of everyone else's surfing.

We moved to FTTC as soon as it was available at the beginning of June 2012 and we were the first connection on our cabinet. We're on 80/20 and it's lovely. Being able to watch iPlayer while downloading ISOs while the rest of the family surf is nice.

We probably only 'need' 20/5 but 80/20 is nice to have.

Our VDSL sync rates started at 103/36 but have dropped over time and are currently 86/27. I assume this is due to VDSL crosstalk as other people get FTTC on our cabinet.

The reason is that people live "near" a cabinet, but not near the exchange. Their broadband until fibre was dictated by the run from home to the exchange. If you had nasty aluminium cables (like moi), then you were lucky to get 1 meg, and most of the time 135k-160k - and that was on "up to 8 megs". Now my nasty line only caps me at 50 megs as I am quite close to the cabinet, and then the run to the exchange is done by fibre, not copper anymore.

Before I was lucky to load most webpages - any generic "player" was out.

So, it's not the speed, but the better connectivity - and BT have it right for our area and have provided a step jump in connection speeds for 1000's of us!

Rob

PS We are not in the sticks either, just outside York!

I can understand why some people want super high speed, ok it is super high speed int his country. Myself I am not that bothered, i wanted a better speed than I was getting on ADSl, and Allpay gave me the chance with their wireless service. i knew FTTC was coming but Bt kept moving the date.

I think FTTC was here about a couple of months after I went with allpay.

TBH, I think I made the right choice, ok I only get 10 Megabits, but that is still a fair bit faster than my ADSL was, and I pay almost £30 for that, but I am not paying for a phone line, so that makes up for it.

I can watch HD netflix, which is fine and since I don't watch TV and don't have a TV licence it is my main form of video entertainment.

I still got 12 months to run on my broadband contract, it is a bit longer than I normally go for, i think I will keep it even after the contract is out. the price I pay for unlimited is ok, if i went for FTTC, it would cost me slightly more after adding on line rental and even if I did get it cheaper it would mean going to BT, Talk Talk, plusnet or sky and to be honest I do not want to go back to a large ISP, certainly not Bt or Talk Talk anyway.

The smaller Isps on FTTC are expensive for what you get, which is a shame, I am surprised by the amount of people I know that have no interest in going for fibre,