XNTE (external NTE) wiring

Hi,

I've just discovered my mother's woeful rural broadband connection problems may be down to a very old XNTE box - I had no idea she had one. It seems to be from the neolithic era. Pic of the outside here and wiring photo here.

Apart from the wildlife, it looks a bit of a mess. This feeds into the house and the NTE5 the other side of the wall (less than a metre from this XNTE), but surely this ancient setup can't be helping her ADSL.

So, presumably the orange cables are the old ring wires - can I cut those, or is it best to remove them? I'm fairly sure the NTE5 isn't even using the orange one as I checked this years ago.

There are two of each colour cables - I'm guessing this is for the (unused, bedroom) extension line. Is there an easy way to identify which set of cables are for the main NTE5 and which are for the extension?

And finally, would it be best that I simple ran these cables into the house myself, direct into the NTE5? I know xNTEs haven't been used in anger for a while, and I'm desperate to make sure her wiring is as good as it can be (FTTC coming this year), but only if there's a good chance my work will actually help.

The house was probably built in the 1980s, so I'm guessing that's the last time anybody looked inside. The wasp was perfectly preserved, almost mummified!

Thanks

Will

The picture is of a BT66, not an external NTE. It is simply an enclosure for the connectors, which (apart from the detritus) appears perfectly fine. The crimps used are jelly filled and suitable for external use.

Don't cut any wires. In fact, don't touch anything in there - The colour codes used on external cables differs from that with internal. Orange is not a ring wire on this scenario, it is one leg of an incoming pair (Green & Black is the other).

Although it's hard to be 100% sure from the picture, it looks like the incoming underground feed is simply crimped to another cable to extend it into the house.

Why do you think it causes a problem?

Thanks for the reply. I have no idea if it's causing a problem or not - I'm just desperate! Her stats are awful, and the line from the pole to the house takes a circuitous route over her neighbour's house, underground, back overground - and it's extremely long, hence the default attenuation figure of 63.5db. It's almost certainly higher.

I'll heed your advice though; I won't touch a thing. Not even the orange ring wire...?

Will

If you want to disconnect the ring wire to any extensions, do it on the rear of the removable faceplate of the NTE5 inside the house.
Just pull out the wire from the connector marked '3'.

That's not an XNTE. The insides of those look like this. If you scroll down this page to the external NTE5 section you see the outside of it.

There wouldn't, or shouldn't, be an internal NTE5 given one of those.

Several people here will know what it is, but to me it just looks like a type of junction box.

Don't make any assumptions about the orange wire. What colours arrive at the inside sockets, and how many are there - you've mentioned the NTE5 and a bedroom extension, but is that all?

By the time she gets FTTC I expect the default install will be as ADSLx is now, but engineer installs should be an option with most ISPs. I would plump for that unless you get some spot-on instructions here from the few who really know. Any mess-up by you could be very expensive.

I see. Thanks - and sorry for getting all the terms wrong! I just assumed it was an NTE5. Just taken the "main" internal box off and this is what it looks like. Just two wires - white and orange.

The extension socket, in the bedroom, is smaller (looks like an LJU1) but is using the connectors 2, 3, 4 and 5.

This all seems odd to me. Is the extension socket the "real" main socket?!

I don't even seem to have connectors on this faceplate - just two wires: orange and white. All very odd...

That looks like the other end of the cable from the BT66.

Does the extension socket in the bedroom work?
If it does, it must be connected by some unknown means and may need some detective work to find out how the cable to the extension is run.

If it is connected to the line before the NTE5, there may be some improvement if it can be removed or re-routed.

The extension socket has been unplugged. Next to the main socket is a wire with a traditional BT plug and this used to fit into a double adaptor at the main socket. I removed it ages ago which improved the SNR but only by a tiny amount.

So by that basis I think I've done everything I can and her internal wiring is as good as it can get.

Grateful for your help Panda. Thanks.

Ah. So the extension is served via a plug into the NTE5?
In that case then: Yes, you've done everything you can with the internal wiring.

Heh !
You are really screwed up with the terminology.

Those are both the master socket, from the identical URL. That piece you photograph is not the faceplate. I don't know its name, but the faceplate is the detachable bottom half at the front, that you have to remove to get at the screws for this. I tend to call it the backplate or rear assembly.

It's the faceplate that might have wires attached, feeding the extension(s). Are there any wires on that, as it would be odd if they weren't the same as feed the LJU1.

I think it more likely it is an LJU2, but in either case is it a master or an extension. The difference between master and extension is the yellow capacitor at the top, and the LJU1 or 2 is determined by the size. (There's also a bigger LJ2, 85 x 85). Kitz seems to have her LJU1 and 2 labelling slightly out in the right-hand column, as in a copy and paste without changing the 1 to a 2.

The posts since 18:46:42 weren't present when I started drafting my reply to it. As you say, it looks as though everything possible has already been done .

Thanks very much for your help both of you. We'll cross our fingers and when the fibre cabinet is installed, give it a go. We won't get 40mb but I'll be content with 5mb!

Two things you should do-

1 Try the Quiet Line Test, using a corded phone into the NTE of whatever category.

Dial 17070; then select Option 2 (SKY would be 4).

If you hear any untoward noise on the line, apart from possibly a very faint hum, report it to your PHONE PROVIDER as a PHONE FAULT - do NOT mention Broadband.

If there is no significant noise at the NTE, reconnect the internal extensions and try them. If there is noe significant noise, you need to track doen the source, as being internal, it is the householder's responsibility.

2 Get the Line Length particularly, to see if it has a reasonable correspondence to the Attenuation-

http://windows.mouselike.org/be/?DoAction=BrasChecker

You should also try to establish the Cabinet Number (Green/Grey Cabinet) "somewhere", unless it is an EO (Exchange Only) Line.

He appears not to have any extensions. We need the answer about wires to the back of the master faceplate to be sure.

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

Two things you should do-

1 Try the Quiet Line Test, using a corded phone into the NTE of whatever category.

Seems fine.

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

2 Get the Line Length particularly, to see if it has a reasonable correspondence to the Attenuation-

http://windows.mouselike.org/be/?DoAction=BrasChecker

5900, so, just under the apparent threshold of 6km to receive 1mb. So, that would seem correct. And this is very rural Devon, so the lines which were installed must have been done eons ago.

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

You should also try to establish the Cabinet Number (Green/Grey Cabinet) "somewhere", unless it is an EO (Exchange Only) Line.

Yep - there's only one cabinet in the village and we know we're connected to it. What we really need is a BT Openreach engineer to come here and physically run a new line from the pole. Persuading them to do that is impossible however.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

He appears not to have any extensions. We need the answer about wires to the back of the master faceplate to be sure.

RobertoS: what do you need to know?

You removed the rear assembly from the master socket, to show us the wires.

To get at the screws to do that, I'm assuming you had to remove the faceplate which is the bottom half of the fully assembled socket box.

On the back of the faceplate are IDC connectors like the ones in the LJU you have as the extension. Are there any wires attached to them? If so, what colours where?

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 25-Feb-14 21:30:16)

Unfortunately, as the line is Quiet, it would appear to be of the standard required for BASIC PHONE PURPOSES, ie for making Phone Calls, Receiving etc.

That is the only legal obligation that OR has regarding quality etc.

Thus extremely unlikely that Openreach would replace that short length, unless paid to do so.

----------------------------------

Regarding the Attenuation and Length, you conclude that they are on a par, ie in general agreement, so no improvement can be expected.

========================

The only hope for significant improvement, would be that FTTC comes to that local cabinet.

There may be modems that could achieve slightly higher speeds; but I am doubtful, given the line length and attenuation.

Indeed. Well, thanks a lot for your advice. Glad I posted here before destroying everything. The cabinet has met approval (or rather, no opposition) by Harlequin, so it's over to BT to site it and plumb in some fibre. Line length to the cabinet ought not to be more than 3km (I'm going to work it out tomorrow), so at the very least she should get 10-12mb. It really will transform this little village, and many others like it.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You removed the rear assembly from the master socket, to show us the wires.

To get at the screws to do that, I'm assuming you had to remove the faceplate which is the bottom half of the fully assembled socket box.

On the back of the faceplate are IDC connectors like the ones in the LJU you have as the extension. Are there any wires attached to them? If so, what colours where?

No wires at all on the faceplate.

Urm sorry to spoil the party but who says 3km VDSL2 will get a speed of 10 to 12 Mbps?

Generally at that distance you are looking at not being allowed to order it, or only getting marginally more speed than ADSL.

That's good. That's where extensions should be wired from, and where the ring wire from those connects. Your plug-in extension for the bedroom almost certainly had a ring wire, and most are also poor quality cable and introduce noise as well.

OK. I was being very pessimistic (this is what nine years of campaigning for rural broadband can do to a man)

I've just measured it on Google. As the crow flies, it's 524m from house to cabinet. This is a higgledy piggledy village, and the telephone cables skirt around its edge, in which case the line length would be about 850m. There's no surefire way of knowing, but I'll traipse across the field and try to follow the line as closely as I can tomorrow.

Better than 3km - fair point, Andrew!

At 850m then 25 to 30 Mbps is the window you are looking at probably

The checker will update with the Openreach speed range once the service is ready to order.

Just to add to what others have said, that is just an external junction box, and all looks fine. from there it's a straight pair to the rear of the NTE, all as expected/hoped for.

Let us hope it is 850m back to the cabinet, and not 3k eh !