Why I don't believe in gmail, hotmail etc.

I have always shunned this type of email system and advocated paid hosting.

This BBC article, arises from google discovering child porn in a user's email. For that we do have to be thankful. But later in the article we get to the crux of the matter and why I dislike these systems. (My bold):-

Google automatically scans email accounts to provide ads within Gmail, which has more than 400 million users worldwide.

In April, Google updated its terms and conditions to say: Our automated systems analyse your content (including emails) to provide you personally relevant product features, such as customised search results, tailored advertising, and spam and malware detection. This analysis occurs as the content is sent, received, and when it is stored.

This occurred after a class-action lawsuit against the company over email scanning was dismissed earlier this year. At the time, Google said that "a person has no legitimate expectation of privacy in information he voluntarily turns over to third parties".

I don't have a problem with spam and malware detection which doesn't explicitly scan the content for meaning. Decent hosts also provide that but usually with some user control. But what that paragraph also says is my reason for staying clear.

Those T & Cs include other content as well as emails. Google docs etc. No thanks. No doubt much the same applies to other Cloud Storage services. What about confidential business data as well as individual privacy?

I accept that if google were not doing this, the offender would not have been caught. The principle is still wrong. It goes far beyond what the arguments are about governmental snooping and the records that have to be kept for them.

well dedicated hosting is the way to go but sadly people are tight with their wallets. so buy a domain (yours to keep as long as you renew it), then find somewhere to host it, either own server or paid service,. email hosting on a shared server is typically dirt cheap tho. When I say own server I don't mean host at home, although I know some people do that,

in my view tho free web mail services are superior to isp supplied services still.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

in my view tho free web mail services are superior to isp supplied services still.

For what reasons? In my view POP3 or IMAP access is always superior to webmail.

I would never store anything in the Cloud and only let my emails reside on their servers for as short time as possible. I just don't trust unknown firms to keep it safe and private.

Why do you think the story has appeared. They are hoping that everyone will start to think "oh yes, checking emails keeps children safe ... " and accept it. It is then easy to just slip other surveillance in through a back door - if it is not already there.

+1

In reply to a post by MHC:

- if it is not already there.

It is.........check Snowden's "leaks"

Edited by deleted (Mon 04-Aug-14 17:28:30)

Public acceptance is not there though.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

When I say own server I don't mean host at home, although I know some people do that,

I do that. It's cheap(*), very secure and extremely reliable

(*)The server apparently consumes less than 10w in typical use, and as little 5w when idle so electricity usage is not a factor.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Public acceptance is not there though.

This debate is very similar to the decades old debate about Identity cards. I have never heard a sound reason against them. If you have nothing to hide what's the problem? In the States anyone who is a citizen, or who has lived there longer than six months, must carry a photo ID, (Driver's Licence), on themselves whenever driving.

In this country we read weekly reports of people, rightfully convicted, of plotting terrorist atrocities. How do you think this information was obtained? It certainly was not PC49 or Dixon of Dock Green patrolling their rounds. It was the vigilance of the NSA and GCHQ scanning the airwaves for such words as Jihad, (Ooops, that probably has GCHQ alarm bells ringing).

I would prefer to remain safe than worry about what anybody could read into my E-Mails - jokes mostly!

Edited by deleted (Mon 04-Aug-14 18:23:53)

That is why for all but trivia sites, I have long stuck to encrypted mail, messaging and video from a country that respects privacy.
https://unseen.is

There is a difference between the discussion over governmental access, even providers' enforced retention of certain data for governmental access, and routine detailed analysis by google, Facebook, Microsoft etc. of everything you do with or via them for their own commercial gain.

Google saying you forfeit all rights to privacy by using them is shocking. I stay clear of them as much as possible because I expected they would use your data, but that statement is outrageous.

I forgot the ID Card bit in your post.

Instinctively I am against them. Logically they seem to be a superb idea for the modern era, whereas before we did so much of our business online and identity theft became widespread they were an imposition.

As of a few weeks ago my legacy driving licence was replaced by a photo one.

I don't think in this country it should be compulsory to carry ID with you, but is certainly a good idea to possess it.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 04-Aug-14 18:38:14)

The home of safe honest banks?

I'm not that paranoid; just mildly .

In reply to a post by professor973:

That is why for all but trivia sites, I have long stuck to encrypted mail, messaging and video from a country that respects privacy.
https://unseen.is

No thanks!

Why you should stay away from unseen.is

Own servers are potentially very cheap if you have a static IP address already.

The Raspberry Pi can be used to run everything for very little money; Raspberry Pi Email Server.

I am not sure what performance would be like though. I am looking at using one as a DNS server and another as a syslog server.

Your naivety is breathtaking - the 'I've nothing to hide' concept is ridiculous.
There is a simple and well presented piece in the link below which explains the fallacy of such a belief.

http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/the-data-trust-b...

In reply to a post by RogerTheDodger:

Your naivety is breathtaking - the 'I've nothing to hide' concept is ridiculous.
There is a simple and well presented piece in the link below which explains the fallacy of such a belief.

http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/the-data-trust-b...

Could not agree more, cue Benjamin Franklin quote:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

because isp based services are temporary, you leave the isp, they stop working, isp's can also at a whim stop those services, its not their core priority. Also these services can even be outsourced to yahoo and co anyway, so the downsides listed by robertos would still apply.

In reply to a post by merlin617:

Could not agree more, cue Benjamin Franklin quote:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

I can see both sides. If police intercepted email traffic and prevented your limbs being blown off by a terrorist in a bus bomb attack, would you be pleased?

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

because isp based services are temporary, you leave the isp, they stop working, isp's can also at a whim stop those services

Same goes for the non-ISP Hotmail type email services (I won't call them Webmail cuz they are not just that) or they can start charging for them out of the blue.

Not all ISP provided mailboxes cease when you leave. E.g. Orange & Tiscali (& by implication TT) continue to work w/out an Internet connection from that ISP.

In essence, you are always at the mercy of the provider, even the paid-for hosting ones.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In essence, you are always at the mercy of the provider, even the paid-for hosting ones.

But of course in the case of owning a domain name, the fate of the email address always lies with the domain owner.

history suggests you wrong, these hotmail/gmail services have been around for a long time and are run by the biggest companies in the world.

I cant see either yahoo, hotmail or gmail ceasing free email services for at least a decade, they will probably only do so if something new pops up making email obselete. Personally I dont use them for any private stuff, as own domain is the best way to go, but I do use them for forum registration's, mailing lists etc.

As olivier said with paid hosting provider's if they close up shop its no big deal, you just move the domain, so will have tenporary downtime due to dns updates but thats it, and of course one can make their own email services redundant having backup MX, so if a mail provider goes down, is no downtime at all.