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Hello
I've posted this issue before in the Post Office forum but I think due to their low user base it didn't gather much attention.
I'm having issues connecting to some sites the main thinkbroadband site being one. Basically it takes ages to load if it does at all and seems to struggle when loading certain site assets (images, stylesheets for example). Other sites that have an issue like this is Facebook which fails to load images mainly and www.ukmail.com which doesn't load at all. Netflix also acts up from time to time.
Anyone got any suggestions on what to try to diagnose the issue? I switched to google DNS but this didn't make a noticeable difference.
Thanks in advance.
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If not DNS then MTU try the standard 1458
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Is that 4.7Mbps speed in your sig correct, given the sync estimate for your postcode is 1-3.5Mbps, or is it from a previous address? It's also possible this checker will give a better figure, as postcode checkers are unreliable.
Are you able to get your router stats? If not, please could you run the BT Wholesale Performance Test, ignoring all the red instructions, then on the initial results page click the Further Diagnostics button.
Then copy and paste the contents of the down and up results text boxes.
I think we will find you are simply suffering from the very poor TalkTalk, (the Post Office's network provider), provision on BT Wholesale services. In other words, you probably made a bad move.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly." - G K Chesterton.
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Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
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Can you load www.ukmail.com, e.g., using its IP directly, http://80.193.64.202?
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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Hi Roberto,
The speed is more like 3.8mbps now. 4.7 was what I had with BT after the first 10 days but then their extremely poor service degraded to 2.5 average and 3.2 at best about a week later). I updated my sig after that post so I guess that's why it's not showing.
I'll run those tests tonight when I get home from work, so far the Post Office has been better than BT in that it actually works so... it's some improvement.
Edited by deleted (Tue 30-Sep-14 16:15:18)
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Okay router stats
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 21:03:44
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.1
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 4.864
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 215,70 / 1,61
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,4 / 19,4
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 30,0 / 49,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 23,0 / 7,7
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / -
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / -
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / -
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 334 / -
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 5 / 3.038.397
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 4 / 460
HEC Errors (Up/Down): - / 460 / 1.861
BT Wholesale results
Can't get further diagnostics to work but 4.04mbps on down speed
The estimate for my number is 0.75 to 2.5
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IP doesn't work either. It's odd because if I do a ping on the address it returns the IP but all requests time out.
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Try a tracert on that addy and see if where it tails out gives any clue. Post the route so we can do a comparison.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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Traceroute
traceroute to 80.193.64.202 (80.193.64.202), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 3.565 ms 0.829 ms 0.618 ms
2 88-144-248-1.host.pobb.as13285.net (88.144.248.1) 295.228 ms 28.890 ms 27.746 ms
3 host-78-151-238-223.as13285.net (78.151.238.223) 28.306 ms 27.753 ms 27.857 ms
4 host-78-151-238-218.as13285.net (78.151.238.218) 29.750 ms
host-78-151-238-202.as13285.net (78.151.238.202) 29.784 ms
host-78-151-238-198.as13285.net (78.151.238.198) 34.774 ms
5 host-78-144-1-24.as13285.net (78.144.1.24) 307.101 ms
host-78-144-1-12.as13285.net (78.144.1.12) 30.085 ms
host-78-144-1-16.as13285.net (78.144.1.16) 31.450 ms
6 host-78-144-10-225.as13285.net (78.144.10.225) 28.351 ms
host-78-144-10-231.as13285.net (78.144.10.231) 30.433 ms
host-78-144-1-20.as13285.net (78.144.1.20) 29.202 ms
7 host-78-144-10-227.as13285.net (78.144.10.227) 29.795 ms
virgin-media-pp-the.as13285.net (78.144.3.66) 29.424 ms
host-78-144-10-219.as13285.net (78.144.10.219) 30.383 ms
8 nrth-bb-1b-ae7-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.253.174.17) 35.640 ms
virgin-media-pp-the.as13285.net (78.144.3.66) 30.919 ms 29.202 ms
9 nrth-bb-1b-ae7-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.253.174.17) 30.913 ms
nrth-bb-2a-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.129) 44.991 ms
nrth-bb-1b-ae7-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.253.174.17) 31.880 ms
10 brhm-bb-2a-ae4-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.45) 33.721 ms 34.822 ms 34.110 ms
11 manc-bb-2a-ae1-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.50) 35.184 ms
brhm-bb-2a-ae4-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.45) 34.410 ms 55.501 ms
12 manc-bb-1c-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.114) 45.895 ms
manc-bb-2a-ae1-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.50) 37.180 ms 34.466 ms
13 manc-bb-1c-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.114) 34.574 ms 35.272 ms
perr-core-2a-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.255.149.66) 37.066 ms
14 perr-core-2a-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.255.149.66) 37.242 ms 37.275 ms 37.611 ms
15 perr-pe-2-ge500.network.virginmedia.net (80.1.69.178) 38.764 ms 38.136 ms 37.763 ms
16 * * *
17 * *
Times out just after that it seems.
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Nowt there! Mine times out at same node in 12 steps in 18 ms.
Never goes thro' as13285.net tho'.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Edited by XRaySpeX (Tue 30-Sep-14 19:09:53)
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Strange, I'm at a bit of a loss. MTU settings made no difference either.
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There isn't a lot of clue there, though what would be useful would be a few tracerts to (say) the 10 th hop. Or even pings.
I'm primarily interested in the 2 nd, the one straight after your router. That is the first after it leaves the BT Wholesale system. The bottleneck is likely to be that exit from BT Wholesale, where TalkTalk need to have rented sufficient capacity to avoid congestion there.
On BT Retail you didn't have that problem. Nor on most other large ISPs.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly." - G K Chesterton.
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There isn't a lot of clue there, though what would be useful would be a few tracerts to (say) the 10th hop. Or even pings.
I'm primarily interested in the 2nd, the one straight after your router. That is the first after it leaves the BT Wholesale system. The bottleneck is likely to be that exit from BT Wholesale, where TalkTalk need to have rented sufficient capacity to avoid congestion there.
On BT Retail you didn't have that problem. Nor on most other large ISPs.
I'm a little confused. Surely if they hadn't rented enough capacity from BT Wholesale this would impact all websites and not just a handful?
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Hi
Fellow PostOffice user here.....www.ukmail.com unavailable here as well, but I have not had trouble with any other sites.
Ian
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That's a good point, but may not be the case.
The problem is possibly when a page needs to pull in sub-pages, pictures, and particularly videos, from multiple sources.
The non-LLU TalkTalk retail product is known to be congested. I'd be surprised if they have separate BT Wholesale handover for the Post Office from their in-house customers, though it is possible. Most Post Office stuff will be going through TalkTalk Business LLU, which is good.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly." - G K Chesterton.
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Are you on BT Wholesale ADSL Ian, or TalkTalk LLU? What does that same tracert give for your first two or three hops after your router?
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly." - G K Chesterton.
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Actually I do have 1 more step after your last perr-pe-2-ge500.network.virginmedia.net step. Maybe it is significant. Thet is 13 18 ms 19 ms 19 ms 82.36.14.2 Can you treacert to there?
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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Oh Wow!
You just made me look again at his tracert!
What are those multiple IP addresses on some hops doing there? Successive pings seem to be going different routes.
What does that mean? I've never seen it before, and don't like it. Mine isn't doing it. Also, yes, my final before the timeouts is 82.36.14.2.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly." - G K Chesterton.
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Actually I do have 1 more step after your last perr-pe-2-ge500.network.virginmedia.net step. Maybe it is significant. Thet is 13 18 ms 19 ms 19 ms 82.36.14.2 Can you treacert to there?
Yep I can get there
traceroute to 82.36.14.2 (82.36.14.2), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 0.913 ms 0.807 ms 0.672 ms
2 88-144-248-1.host.pobb.as13285.net (88.144.248.1) 662.307 ms 588.273 ms 389.150 ms
3 host-78-151-238-223.as13285.net (78.151.238.223) 502.527 ms 448.015 ms 363.086 ms
4 host-78-151-238-214.as13285.net (78.151.238.214) 333.694 ms
host-78-151-238-210.as13285.net (78.151.238.210) 408.440 ms
host-78-151-238-230.as13285.net (78.151.238.230) 87.332 ms
5 host-78-144-1-20.as13285.net (78.144.1.20) 44.320 ms
host-78-144-1-22.as13285.net (78.144.1.22) 33.707 ms
host-78-144-1-18.as13285.net (78.144.1.18) 40.096 ms
6 host-78-144-11-29.as13285.net (78.144.11.29) 31.313 ms
host-78-144-10-231.as13285.net (78.144.10.231) 31.123 ms
host-78-144-1-20.as13285.net (78.144.1.20) 31.584 ms
7 host-78-144-10-66.as13285.net (78.144.10.66) 33.050 ms
virgin-media-pp-the.as13285.net (78.144.3.66) 31.890 ms 29.098 ms
8 nrth-bb-1b-ae7-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.253.174.17) 35.349 ms 33.507 ms
virgin-media-pp-the.as13285.net (78.144.3.66) 32.021 ms
9 nrth-bb-1b-ae7-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.253.174.17) 34.188 ms 31.896 ms
nrth-bb-2a-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.129) 34.461 ms
10 nrth-bb-2a-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.129) 36.874 ms * *
11 brhm-bb-1c-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.110) 37.832 ms 41.848 ms
brhm-bb-2a-ae4-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.45) 38.726 ms
12 perr-core-2b-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.255.149.70) 33.798 ms 56.359 ms 37.800 ms
13 perr-core-2b-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.255.149.70) 37.663 ms
perr-pe-2-ge800.network.virginmedia.net (80.1.69.182) 41.781 ms
perr-core-2b-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.255.149.70) 36.596 ms
14 82.36.14.2 (82.36.14.2) 36.993 ms
perr-pe-2-ge800.network.virginmedia.net (80.1.69.182) 41.646 ms *
In fact if I do a trace route to ukmail again I get there as well now
traceroute to www.ukmail.com (80.193.64.202), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 0.989 ms 0.622 ms 0.668 ms
2 88-144-248-1.host.pobb.as13285.net (88.144.248.1) 30.890 ms 31.313 ms 31.731 ms
3 host-78-151-238-223.as13285.net (78.151.238.223) 31.807 ms 31.773 ms 33.463 ms
4 host-78-151-238-214.as13285.net (78.151.238.214) 33.455 ms
host-78-151-238-202.as13285.net (78.151.238.202) 32.387 ms
host-78-151-238-214.as13285.net (78.151.238.214) 33.168 ms
5 host-78-144-9-154.as13285.net (78.144.9.154) 32.952 ms
host-78-144-1-16.as13285.net (78.144.1.16) 32.680 ms
host-78-144-9-98.as13285.net (78.144.9.98) 33.784 ms
6 host-78-144-10-219.as13285.net (78.144.10.219) 31.290 ms
host-78-144-10-225.as13285.net (78.144.10.225) 33.665 ms
host-78-144-0-193.as13285.net (78.144.0.193) 32.859 ms
7 virgin-media-pp-the.as13285.net (78.144.3.66) 31.672 ms 34.532 ms
host-78-144-10-223.as13285.net (78.144.10.223) 36.908 ms
8 virgin-media-pp-the.as13285.net (78.144.3.66) 31.161 ms 31.541 ms
nrth-bb-1b-ae7-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.253.174.17) 33.353 ms
9 nrth-bb-2a-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.129) 71.814 ms 69.899 ms 38.110 ms
10 brhm-bb-2a-ae4-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.45) 36.023 ms
nrth-bb-2a-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.129) 36.927 ms *
11 manc-bb-2a-ae1-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.50) 83.341 ms
brhm-bb-2a-ae4-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.45) 45.367 ms
manc-bb-2a-ae1-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.50) 78.497 ms
12 manc-bb-1c-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.114) 39.922 ms 39.142 ms
manc-bb-2a-ae1-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.50) 40.027 ms
13 manc-bb-1c-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.114) 101.249 ms 38.484 ms
perr-core-2a-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.255.149.66) 41.574 ms
14 perr-pe-2-ge500.network.virginmedia.net (80.1.69.178) 43.366 ms 42.335 ms 41.772 ms
15 perr-pe-2-ge500.network.virginmedia.net (80.1.69.178) 39.893 ms
82.36.14.2 (82.36.14.2) 38.358 ms 39.443 ms
16 * * *
17 * * *
Edited by deleted (Tue 30-Sep-14 22:05:46)
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Couple more trace routes to other sites I have issues with
traceroute to star.c10r.facebook.com (31.13.90.49), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 3.668 ms 0.656 ms 0.641 ms
2 88-144-248-1.host.pobb.as13285.net (88.144.248.1) 33.260 ms 32.710 ms 32.735 ms
3 host-78-151-238-223.as13285.net (78.151.238.223) 33.418 ms 33.711 ms 33.014 ms
4 host-78-151-238-210.as13285.net (78.151.238.210) 33.603 ms 33.484 ms
host-78-151-238-198.as13285.net (78.151.238.198) 32.859 ms
5 host-78-144-1-24.as13285.net (78.144.1.24) 34.485 ms
host-78-144-1-36.as13285.net (78.144.1.36) 34.175 ms
host-78-144-1-30.as13285.net (78.144.1.30) 34.594 ms
6 xe-11-3-0-scr010.thn.as13285.net (78.144.0.119) 34.139 ms
xe-10-2-0-scr010.sov.as13285.net (78.144.0.216) 47.725 ms
host-78-144-0-211.as13285.net (78.144.0.211) 35.034 ms
7 ae19.pr01.lhr2.tfbnw.net (103.4.96.218) 32.978 ms
host-78-144-11-25.as13285.net (78.144.11.25) 34.940 ms
ae19.pr01.lhr2.tfbnw.net (103.4.96.218) 32.514 ms
8 ae19.pr01.lhr2.tfbnw.net (103.4.96.218) 33.261 ms
88-144-250-235.host.pobb.as13285.net (88.144.250.235) 35.404 ms
ae19.pr01.lhr2.tfbnw.net (103.4.96.218) 34.954 ms
9 msw01.04.lhr3.tfbnw.net (173.252.66.154) 33.511 ms 35.033 ms 35.410 ms
10 edge-star-shv-04-lhr3.facebook.com (31.13.90.49) 34.294 ms
msw01.04.lhr3.tfbnw.net (173.252.66.154) 33.304 ms
edge-star-shv-04-lhr3.facebook.com (31.13.90.49) 33.207 ms
traceroute to www.thinkbroadband.com (80.249.99.130), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 0.993 ms 0.814 ms 0.618 ms
2 88-144-248-1.host.pobb.as13285.net (88.144.248.1) 32.966 ms 33.185 ms 33.878 ms
3 host-78-151-238-223.as13285.net (78.151.238.223) 33.254 ms 34.801 ms 32.955 ms
4 host-78-151-238-230.as13285.net (78.151.238.230) 35.438 ms
host-78-151-238-214.as13285.net (78.151.238.214) 36.070 ms
host-78-151-238-194.as13285.net (78.151.238.194) 36.353 ms
5 host-78-144-9-154.as13285.net (78.144.9.154) 35.798 ms
host-78-144-1-46.as13285.net (78.144.1.46) 34.787 ms
host-78-144-1-10.as13285.net (78.144.1.10) 35.178 ms
6 host-78-144-1-16.as13285.net (78.144.1.16) 37.722 ms
host-78-144-11-29.as13285.net (78.144.11.29) 35.301 ms
host-78-144-0-107.as13285.net (78.144.0.107) 33.534 ms
7 host-78-144-10-231.as13285.net (78.144.10.231) 35.469 ms
talktalk-gw1.thdo.ncuk.net (78.144.3.74) 33.269 ms 33.807 ms
8 talktalk-gw1.thdo.ncuk.net (78.144.3.74) 34.137 ms
te1-1-1-31.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net (80.249.97.85) 35.953 ms
talktalk-gw1.thdo.ncuk.net (78.144.3.74) 33.907 ms
9 * * *
10 * * *
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Look at steps 10 and 14 in those two tracerts.
One try is timing out. That means huge holdups are occurring occasionally somewhere up to those points. Solid timeouts like those that follow are a different thing altogether - they just mean the router there is set not to respond to pings.
It has to be congestion somewhere. I've said where I think it will be.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly." - G K Chesterton.
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Are you on BT Wholesale ADSL
Yes (market 1 SWRSO)
What does that same tracert give for your first two or three hops after your router?
| Text | 1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
2021
2223
2425
| traceroute to www.ukmail.com (80.193.64.202), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
1 88-144-0-1.host.pobb.as13285.net (88.144.0.1) 36.130 ms 37.454 ms 35.759 ms 2 host-78-151-225-59.static.as13285.net (78.151.225.59) 36.280 ms 37.002 ms 35.818 ms
3 host-78-151-225-182.static.as13285.net (78.151.225.182) 36.722 ms host-78-151-225-166.static.as13285.net (78.151.225.166) 36.496 ms host-78-151-225-247.static.as13285.net (78.151.225.247) 37.740 ms 4 host-78-144-11-79.as13285.net (78.144.11.79) 43.975 ms host-78-144-11-85.as13285.net (78.144.11.85) 46.404 ms host-78-144-11-79.as13285.net (78.144.11.79) 43.921 ms
5 host-78-144-10-134.as13285.net (78.144.10.134) 43.948 ms host-78-144-10-62.as13285.net (78.144.10.62) 42.449 ms host-78-144-10-122.as13285.net (78.144.10.122) 43.590 ms 6 virgin-media-pp-the.as13285.net (78.144.3.66) 42.638 ms 43.625 ms 44.369 ms
7 nrth-bb-1b-ae7-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.253.174.17) 70.265 ms 44.538 ms 46.860 ms 8 nrth-bb-2a-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.129) 51.839 ms 133.024 ms 47.801 ms
9 brhm-bb-2a-ae4-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.45) 46.883 ms 45.756 ms 47.664 ms10 manc-bb-2a-ae1-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.50) 47.447 ms 48.456 ms 48.086 ms
11 manc-bb-1c-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.114) 49.366 ms 47.956 ms 50.359 ms12 perr-core-2a-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.255.149.66) 52.262 ms 51.178 ms 50.559 ms
13 perr-pe-2-ge500.network.virginmedia.net (80.1.69.178) 49.108 ms 48.707 ms 49.095 ms14 82.36.14.2 (82.36.14.2) 51.550 ms 50.969 ms 50.330 ms
15 * * *16 * * *
17 * * *18 * * *
19 * * *20 * * *
21 * * *22 * * *
23 * * *24 * |
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There again, multiple addresses within a hop.
To me that could be a congested system desperately trying to find an open route to the final destination. Tracerts are normally all the same address per line, even if that changes on later tracerts.
That is an argument against my suggestion earlier that the holdup is at the BTW WBMC node, though not conclusive.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly." - G K Chesterton.
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Steps 10 and 14? Both traceroutes only got to 10 I thoight?
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If it helps, it won't load from the url. but will from the IP address for me too. This being from a BT Wholesale based connection too.
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Sorry, yes you're right. However I spotted the problem in yours and somehow picked up the wrong hops when writing the post.
Yours does it in hops 4,5,6,7,8 and 10 in the first one, and gives up after 8 in the second.
Once it changes at hop 4, it isn't surprising it is different afterwards, as hop 3 has chosen a different route. Suggestion the hold-up is later than hop 3.
I realise I'm changing my story as I go along as to where the holdup is. That's because I'm thinking more about something we just don't normally see happening.
See mine from earlier:-
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.3.9600]
(c) 2013 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
C:\Users\Bob>tracert 80.193.64.202
Tracing route to 80.193.64.202 over a maximum of 30 hops
1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.254
2 16 ms 13 ms 13 ms lo0-central10.ptw-ag02.plus.net [195.166.128.196]
3 14 ms 15 ms 17 ms link-b-central10.ptw-gw02.plus.net [212.159.2.150]
4 14 ms 24 ms 13 ms xe-0-2-0.ptw-cr02.plus.net [212.159.0.250]
5 15 ms 15 ms 13 ms 195.66.236.23
6 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms popl-bb-1c-ae9-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.159.118]
7 54 ms 44 ms 13 ms popl-bb-2a-ae3-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.42.93]
8 37 ms 16 ms 15 ms nrth-bb-2a-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.42.69]
9 17 ms 18 ms 17 ms brhm-bb-2a-ae4-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.42.45]
10 19 ms 23 ms 18 ms manc-bb-2a-ae1-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.42.50]
11 24 ms 18 ms 44 ms manc-bb-1c-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.42.114]
12 22 ms 28 ms 22 ms perr-core-2a-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.255.149.66]
13 22 ms 21 ms 21 ms perr-pe-2-ge500.network.virginmedia.net [80.1.69.178]
14 19 ms 21 ms 19 ms 82.36.14.2
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 ^C
Unfortunately we don't know where things go after 82.36.14.2, which is still within Virgin Media backhaul.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly." - G K Chesterton.
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Guessing the hops are those inside the talk talk network (Opatel?)
The addresses as13285.net all link back to Opatel. Question now then (which there may be no obvious answer) is whether this is an issue of Talk Talk not buying enough wholesale capacity or whether there is just general congestion inside the talk talk network unrelated to the capacity purchased from bt wholesale?
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Lower MTU on router to 1300 to account for loss of packet in pppoa.
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What are those multiple IP addresses on some hops doing there? Successive pings seem to be going different routes.
What does that mean? I've never seen it before Perhaps cuz we are running on Windows but OP is using Unix traceroute.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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1300 seems unusually low generally 1400 was an old value that seemed to work for AOL specifically at one time, but generally 1458 is the norm.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Oh, right! You think ours may be only reporting the router against the first per hop, and the second and third could be different as well?
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly." - G K Chesterton.
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I can test using windows tonight if needed?
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It might be useful, at a bad time, with a Linux one around the same time, to compare  . It's hard to work out what is going on, and this could be a spurious effect confusing things.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly." - G K Chesterton.
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Yes. I've seen such differences between Linux & Windows before; Linux, by default, sends 3 queries for each hop, and the hops can route in different directions sometimes - and you see a new hostname & latency value if it does (or IP address, if you set the right option).
The number (3 in this case) can be altered in Linux with a command-line option.
The Linux & Windows traceroutes also tend to differ in another important aspect: Under Linux, it uses UDP packets, while in Windows, it uses ICMP echo requests, the same as ping commands.
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I just tried from a Linux server in London. It routes through a different backbone, so doesn't see multiple routes. It doesn't see ukmail.com either...
[root@mail Scripts]# traceroute -q 10 ukmail.com
traceroute to ukmail.com (80.193.64.202), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 185.xxx.xxx.xxx (185.xxx.xxx.xxx) 0.875 ms 1.077 ms 1.309 ms 1.290 ms 1.498 ms 1.481 ms 1.720 ms 1.708 ms 1.901 ms 1.885 ms
2 ae2-as0.rdg.as29550.net (91.186.17.90) 1.040 ms 1.291 ms 1.272 ms 1.253 ms 1.234 ms 1.215 ms 1.071 ms 0.933 ms 0.910 ms 0.893 ms
3 xe-0-0-0-cr0.rdg.as29550.net (91.186.5.233) 0.341 ms 0.588 ms 0.575 ms 0.556 ms 0.535 ms 0.517 ms 0.497 ms 0.477 ms 0.403 ms 0.379 ms
4 ae1-cr0.the.as29550.net (91.186.5.249) 1.410 ms 1.623 ms 1.510 ms 1.756 ms 1.745 ms 1.727 ms 1.708 ms 1.689 ms 1.670 ms 1.652 ms
5 linx-gw1.router.ntli.net (195.66.224.22) 1.631 ms 1.612 ms 1.593 ms 1.575 ms 1.557 ms 1.702 ms 1.505 ms 1.672 ms 1.614 ms 1.555 ms
6 nrth-bb-1b-ae7-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.253.174.17) 32.701 ms 32.933 ms 32.349 ms 32.322 ms 32.304 ms 32.284 ms 32.274 ms 32.242 ms 32.223 ms 32.203 ms
7 nrth-bb-2a-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.129) 5.492 ms 5.659 ms 5.624 ms 5.433 ms 5.662 ms 5.430 ms 5.400 ms 5.829 ms 5.537 ms 5.753 ms
8 brhm-bb-2a-ae4-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.45) 5.339 ms 5.322 ms 5.223 ms 5.170 ms 5.199 ms 5.447 ms 5.416 ms 5.396 ms 5.247 ms 5.187 ms
9 manc-bb-2a-ae1-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.50) 7.076 ms 26.419 ms 46.695 ms 6.989 ms 7.012 ms 45.811 ms 43.883 ms 39.637 ms 15.196 ms 35.308 ms
10 manc-bb-1c-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.254.42.114) 7.594 ms 7.304 ms 7.771 ms 7.762 ms 7.480 ms 7.713 ms 7.446 ms 7.679 ms 7.407 ms 7.245 ms
11 perr-core-2a-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.255.149.66) 10.709 ms 9.913 ms 9.645 ms 9.846 ms 9.942 ms 9.904 ms 9.887 ms 9.610 ms 9.615 ms 9.649 ms
12 perr-pe-2-ge500.network.virginmedia.net (80.1.69.178) 7.689 ms 7.632 ms 7.625 ms 7.849 ms 7.835 ms 7.643 ms 7.848 ms 7.836 ms 7.599 ms 7.611 ms
13 82.36.14.2 (82.36.14.2) 10.073 ms 10.234 ms 10.149 ms 10.157 ms 10.146 ms 10.129 ms 10.102 ms 10.312 ms 10.533 ms 10.326 ms
14 * * * * * * * * * *
15 * * * * * * * * * *
16 * * * * * * * * * *
17 * * * * * * * * * *
18 * * * * * * * * * *
19 * * * * * * * * * *
20 * * * * * * * * * *
21 * * * * * * * * * *
22 * * * * * * * * * *
23 * * * * * * * * * *
24 * * * * * * * * * *
25 * * * * * * * * * *
26 * * * * * * * * * *
27 * * * * * * * * * *
28 * * * * * * * * * *
29 * * * * * * * * * *
30 * * * * * * * * * *
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Nothing gets a response after 82.36.14.2.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly." - G K Chesterton.
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Apologies for not getting a chance to post any trace routes. I ended up in engaging in a battle with BT which left me needing a break. Good news is I won the battle and hopefully the war... Paperwork pending!
Anyway just before bed I noticed something interesting. I have a three signal booster which as you probably know uses your internet connection to provide signal. If I use my phone and 3G through this the loading problems for think broadband and Facebook vanish (UK Mail also becomes accessible). Now correct me if I'm wrong but this leads me to believe talk talk have purchased adequate capacity from BT wholesale at an exchange issue (as I don't have speed issues and using 3G through the signal booster all is well). So does this mean that the problems lie inside the talk talk network? I would talk to the post office about this but they're only a bit more educated than BT so I don't hold out much hope.
Any thoughts?
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I don't know anything about how those signal boosters work (are routed) on the internet side, sorry.
Re capacity at the exchange, that isn't what I've been on about. It's at the other end of the system - corresponding to the old 20CN BT Centrals, if you remember those.
Have a look at this page. Read through the first bit to get the feel for it, but concentrate on the IPSC paragraph as that is what your service will be. Probably with take-off at a single node.
My gut feel is still it is that node, or hop 2 which is the first TalkTalk one after it.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly." - G K Chesterton.
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I don't know anything about how those signal boosters work (are routed) on the internet side, sorry.
With a 3 home signal unit in the data path, the browser on the mobile gets connected to Three's 3G network, and exits onto the internet through one of Three's proxy servers.
It is a low-power 3G transceiver, where the backhaul into Three's network is effectively a VPN over your own internet connection.
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If I use my phone and 3G through this the loading problems for think broadband and Facebook vanish (UK Mail also becomes accessible). Now correct me if I'm wrong but this leads me to believe talk talk have purchased adequate capacity from BT wholesale at an exchange issue (as I don't have speed issues and using 3G through the signal booster all is well). So does this mean that the problems lie inside the talk talk network?
The fact that you get zippy data on the mobile implies that the data throughput on the VPN (from the Home Signal unit back to Three) is working just fine, and it shows that the connection from the Three proxy out to ukmail is working fine too.
If the VPN runs fine, then the underlying throughput of data from mobile to TalkTalk (via the FTTC link to exchange, and exchange into TalkTalk), and then from TalkTalk to Three, must be working just fine.
However, the problem you experience on the PC shows there is a problem in the path from you to TalkTalk, and then from TalkTalk out to that particular destination.
The central part of those two connections (from router, via modem, to exchange, then on to TalkTalk) are identical - and one test shows it is working fine.
Therefore your culprit is highly likely to be either be the PC itself, or the way your PC talks to the router (WiFi?), or in the link between TalkTalk and ukmail.
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As issue seems to be either PC or at TT's end, the former is more likely otherwise lots of TT users would be reporting this issue. Therefore I think we ought to revisit MTU. Earlier values seem rather small.
Taking the simple sledgehammer approach, worth trying MTU = 1492 and 1500.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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otherwise lots of TT users would be reporting this issue
Not sure about lots; I suffer from this (ukmail not available) and i'm on a market 1 exchange using TT (postoffice).
Cosidering TT has the biggest 21C rollout there will only be a few (100's ot maybe 1000's) on 20C exchanges using TT network.
Ian
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Yes lower the MTU on your router!! Your wasting time doing traceroutes etc. The reason the signal booster works is because the vpn it establishes will be using a lowetr mtu as they are used to dealing with BT connections.
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There is a more scientific method of determining the optimum MTU.
Set the router MTU = 1500 and then use decreasing pings to find the right value according to: Working out your maximum MTU
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 02-Oct-14 16:04:03)
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OK
I have lowered my MTU to 1100 and raised it to 1500.... and still nothing....my prognosis....TT routing problem
Ian
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MTU seems to have made some improvement but I've also had to switch back to the Zyxel to do it. The setting was refusing to take on the technicolor... hopefully the Zyxel holds out.
(Improvement with websites obv ukmail is simply some routing cock up)
Edited by deleted (Thu 02-Oct-14 21:04:36)
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Okay scrap that adjusting the MTU has made no improvement.
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