Problems changing Broadband provider

Having come to the end of a 12 month contract, in order to get the "Best available deal", I am trying to migrate my Broadband service from one provider to another without being forced to change a land-line number that I have had for years.

When I tried to do this a while back, the intended recipient provider (BB-NEW) told me that as a result of something that my existing provider (BB-OLD) had done they would have to give me a new land-line number.

I contacted BB-OLD for an explanation and was told:

Your services are provided through the BT Openreach network as BT own the line, we are not allowed to make any changes to the line as it has to remain compatible to all providers that also use the BT Openreach network, if there are any faults on your service it is BT Openreach that come to fix it on our behalf.

Your services are provided as an "MPF Service" this means you account is bundled so you pay only one bill for homephone and broadband, this is a common practise that was also used by your previous provider before transferring to us.

If your new provider does not have the facility to provide you an "MPF Service" this may cause them to want to install a new line, but this is not something Tesco are responsible for as the issue lies with your new provider.

As previously advised to transfer your services and number just simple make an application to a provider by providing them with your current phone number and address.

I tried again and after they accepted my order and me promised lots of sooper add-on goodies I have just been told by BB-NEW that they can't actually do it:

Unfortunately it has not been possible to transfer your current telephone number across to us and as a result we have cancelled your order. If you still want to get great value and are happy to change your number please call us.

Can someone who understands these things please explain and help me to get away from this nonsense . . . PLEASE?

I would simply move to BT except that they offer absolutely appalling value for money and seem to have woeful, unresponsive customer services.

Many thanks in advance

Its down to number porting agreements and whose number block the number originally comes from.

If its years old and was originally a BT number, then porting should be no great issue. Some providers prefer to do a new line provide rather than a 'migration' when switching from certain services, their choice and if they do not want to play ball on doing a number port it is tell them why you are not going with them and move on.

Without knowing the history of number, current and service you are trying to go to it is hard to say a lot more.

Hi Andrew

Thanks for that. I have probably had the land-line number for about 30 years! Over that time I have used a regular Hayes spec. Modem (e.g. with Demon), ISDN (with BT) and then ADSL (with various providers).
I have got into the habit of changing provider every 12 months or so because no provider seems to value loyalty I have NEVER had a problem before.

I was trying to migrate from "Tesco" to "TalkTalk".

You can find out who owns your number here http://www.ukphoneinfo.com/locator

Does the checker https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/main.html recognise the telephone number?

The Tesco service uses LLU, but did not think it used full LLU and TalkTalk are often keen to do new line or new number for full LLU to full LLU moves.

Once we know what the checker makes of the telephone number a bit more advice can be given.

Thanks - it says my number is owned by BT. I'm not sure that that helps much . . .

You could port the number to a VOIP provider before you move

People can, but then means number is tied to requiring internet access and just adds complexity that millions do not want.

Thanks again, tried btwholesale.com/includes/adsl and got the helpful response:

"There is no data available for this number. This could be either because it is not a BT line or it is a new BT number that has just been provided. Most new numbers will appear on the checker 24 hours after BT has installed the line."

Excellent - what now? I think I'm gonna scream.

Edited by deleted (Thu 09-Oct-14 12:13:08)

It would be easier fro us if you tell us who it is you wish to move to. It seems you are with Tesco at the moment, so probably Vodafone Wholesale for both the broadband and phone. (If you are in their network area).

Many ISPs should be able to get you back with your own number, but may require a minimum term. It's one of the drawbacks of having a full LLU service .

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 09-Oct-14 12:32:44)

Shows that Tesco has used full LLU - returned the number to a BT Wholesale WLR provider should be possible.

So while BT may seem the only option, PlusNet is another option. EE should manage it too, along with a lot longer list of SME type providers.

Porting is possible with full LLU, but the little bit of extra work means not every plays ball.

I do greatly appreciate your help Andrew. OFCOM (aka GOD) permitting, I will eventually migrate to someone (or invent Broadband via wet string & plastic cups).

As it happens, I had considered PlusNet but seem to recall having heard worrying tales about their using some "iffy" DNS tool, allegedly to assist with targeted marketing?

That would be Phorm which vanished some years ago

And wasn't it BT Retail that was the prime mover in using Phorm? Did unannounced trials?

If you decide to go with Plusnet you would be well advised to get onto them in the Community Forum after ordering online to get cashback. As Andrew says, moves away from full LU are messy and you need personal handling by one of the reps there.

The standard Plusnet system wouldn't do a simultaneous transfer, and Tesco (Vodafone) may automatically cut off the remaining service.

Dear God, if I had known that Tesco were the disgraceful, tax-dodging Vodafone I wouldn't have touched them!

Caveat emptor.

LOL
Details on TescoBroadband site. First section, Introduction to our company and partners.

Vodafone bought Cable & Wireless a while back, and the network is still shown as C & W on samknows.

Post deleted by XRaySpeX

If its a WLR line then the number should be recognised by the BT Wholesale checker

NOTE The word ONLY in that quote, there is the implication its a full LLU service if you take Broadband AND Phone.

Ah yes, sorry, I missed that word ONLY and assumed that Tesco Home Phone also referred to the phone component of Tesco Broadband With Calls, but it doesn't.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If its a WLR line then the number should be recognised by the BT Wholesale checker

NOTE The word ONLY in that quote, there is the implication it's a full LLU service if you take Broadband AND Phone.

From RobertoS' site I have seen this:

Full LLU (technically called Metallic Path Facility or MPF) is where the [Communications Provider (i.e. ISP)] takes complete control of your phone service as well as the broadband. The main examples that spring to my mind are TalkTalk and in many cases Sky, although as I understand it both also supply BT Wholesale products in some situations.

I assume that Vodafone / C&W / Tesco can be added to this list?

In practicalterms, with what options does this situation leave me? Particularly in light of the fact that it is TalkTalk who can't take over my service from Tesco (both being "Full LLU"). My apologies for being thick, it is just that I am (thick) in this context.

On two separate (but related) tracks, what is the current position in relation to "Phorm" and what do people think of PlusNet?

Phorm does not exist or operate in the UK.

The tracking through things like Google AdSense has gained the level of acceptance and use that more intrusive tracking is not done for advertising purposes.

It is a classic case of technically possible, but one or both parties cannot be bothered and as they are not BT with the regulator breathing down their neck they can pick and choose what to offer to people service wise.

So yes C&W can be added to the list. Generally so few customers it does not get the same mentions in FAQ entries

Just been in touch with PlusNet; they advised:

You don't have a compatible phone service. To use our broadband you'll need to take one of our Home Phone packages - we'll give you free activation worth £25.

Added to this, their price beyond the first 12 months contract is actually higher than Tesco (Vodafone) are charging and their speed is no better - in fact I think they may be more expensive than BT!

Depressing really

I haven't posted on here for quite some time but thought I'd chip in here.

The key statement is in the response is "MPF Service". That's a full LLU service where your line is fully connected to your current providers equipment at the exchange. That means you can't have Broadband with any other provider as it stands at the moment.

The connection would have been made by BT Openreach.

Any BT Wholesale Line Rental provider should be able to have the line moved back onto the BT Network as well as porting your telephone number back as well. There is usually no need to install a new line. Doing it this way normally takes about 10 working days.

Once the line/number are back on the BT Network it will be available for a Shared MPF service where you can have one provider for voice and one for Broadband. The number will then also show up in the BT Availability Checker.

....... what do people think of PlusNet?

I can tell it only as I find it and for my ADSL1 connection from a 20CN exchange 5-6 kilometres away all is good and so far I've not had any monthly billing issues either.[fingers xed]
Line rental with PN as well and pay using the line rental saver option.

The last time I phoned PN CS was eleven months ago and after waiting around fifteen minutes for the call to be answered my query was sorted out then and there, but remember this is just my experience of PN.

Edited by Apprentice (Thu 09-Oct-14 19:38:21)

In reply to a post by rcranswick:

I haven't posted on here for quite some time but thought I'd chip in here.

The key statement is in the response is "MPF Service". That's a full LLU service where your line is fully connected to your current providers equipment at the exchange. That means you can't have Broadband with any other provider as it stands at the moment.

The connection would have been made by BT Openreach.

Any BT Wholesale Line Rental provider should be able to have the line moved back onto the BT Network as well as porting your telephone number back as well. There is usually no need to install a new line. Doing it this way normally takes about 10 working days.

Once the line/number are back on the BT Network it will be available for a Shared MPF service where you can have one provider for voice and one for Broadband. The number will then also show up in the BT Availability Checker.

Thanks for that. However, I'm not sure where that leaves me?

As MrSaffron said earlier, "It is a classic case of technically possible, but one or both parties cannot be bothered and as they are not BT with the regulator breathing down their neck they can pick and choose what to offer to people service wise.". I don't know whether it is TalkTalk or Vodafone/Tesco that can't be bothered and what I can actually do about it?

The whole thing rather suggests that OFCOM aren't doing a great job of simplifying migration for customers.

Migration is all set to change in 2015 just taking a few years to sort out

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

It is a classic case of technically possible, but one or both parties cannot be bothered

The OP issue is that the new ISP, TT, says they need to change his phone no. Can't see why they are insisting on that.

Seeing that the no. belongs to BT, as reported, and MPF ISPs take over BT lines all the time w/out changing nos. and Tesco/C&W had previously taken it over w/out changing the no., why is it necessary for TT to now change the no? Had the OP been migrating from BTw or Partial LLU, TT wouldn't have changed it.

I can understand it if the no. had been a C&W assigned no. (but it isn't) then TT would need to change it. Perhaps the issue is that TT are assuming because it is coming from C&W it must be a C&W no. and ignoring the fact that it has history with BT.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 09-Oct-14 23:28:24)

Yes, that is the solution if the OP wants to go anywhere but TT or Sky, but the OP wants to go to TT and they seem to insist on changing his no.

It is not even a temporary solution as he will have to stay with the BTw or Partial LLU ISP for a period before going to TT.

Even TT and Sky should be able to port the number over without having to install a new line.

They're not saying they need to install a new line; just can't keep old no. It's a portability issue.

P.S. O2's views on BB are no longer .

Edited by XRaySpeX (Fri 10-Oct-14 13:42:50)

You probably got to the point in the last paragraph.

Ofcom seems to allow more freedom to those whose name is not BT in this respect

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

<snip>
It is not even a temporary solution as he will have to stay with the BTw or Partial LLU ISP for a period before going to TT.

Can you explain please? I have no idea as to the significance of BTw (BT wholesale?) or Partial LLU or why I will have to "stay for a period".

I don't really care about going to TalkTalk, I just want to be able to migrate in order to get a better deal - while retaining my long held Tel. No.

Basically pick a provider other than TalkTalk, Sky might take you and port the number.

The porting should be possible, just providers operate on slim margins and prefer to do the simplest thing most of the time.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Basically pick a provider other than TalkTalk, Sky might take you and port the number.

The porting should be possible, just providers operate on slim margins and prefer to do the simplest thing most of the time.

When I have eventually had a coherent response from Tesco / Vodafone I will contact BT with a view to migrating to them at the end of a month's charging period. Fibre is not currently available in my area and when it is I will sort out something better.

Incidentally, with BT Broadband, will I have access to BT Fon when away from home?

If providers operate on such slim margins and are thus reluctant to signup new subscribers one does wonder why they offer great signup offers but don't seem to care about retention . . . AHHHH, now I get the cunning scheme, you become a captive sucka

BT Broadband customers can use BT Fon and BT OpenZone when out and about. Sky customers get access to Cloud WiFi

Also check what WiFi deals your mobile provider has

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

BT Broadband customers can use BT Fon and BT OpenZone when out and about. Sky customers get access to Cloud WiFi

Also check what WiFi deals your mobile provider has

Mobile provider is Tesco - ROFC

Sorry about that, I absolutely hate the use of ROFL, LOL, etc. but a bastardisation of the former seems spot-on in this case.

In reply to a post by LockyOK:

with a view to migrating to them at the end of a month's charging period.

You won't be able to time it exactly and you could well end up paying both for an overlapping period due to notice period (of which you should check your obligation).

BT are the best bet for migrating phone & broadband away from where you are. It may cost a bit more than some others, but after the first year migrating to a better deal is easier.

Just make sure when that time comes that you come here to check you aren't falling into the same trap again .

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

BT are the best bet for migrating phone & broadband away from where you are. It may cost a bit more than some others, but after the first year migrating to a better deal is easier.

Just make sure when that time comes that you come here to check you aren't falling into the same trap again .

I'm not sure how exactly I can make sure I don't fall into the same trap again but I am certain that this is the best place to try - MANY THANKS

As it happens, I have finally had a sensible answer from someone knowledgeable at Tesco / Vodafone:

Thank you for your email, your case number is XXXXXXXX.

I'm sincerely sorry to hear of the difficulties you are experiencing in moving to your chosen provider. I'd also like to apologise for any frustration which may have been caused by our previous communications on the subject not being sufficiently clear.

The landline and broadband product which you currently receive from Tesco is a standard MPF (metallic path facility) product from BT Openreach. This means that your services should be able to transfer from ourselves directly to any other provider which uses BT Openreach MPF lines to deliver services. Generally, this is all UK service providers with the exception of Virgin Media's cable service.

Unfortunately, the case of transferring telephone numbers between providers can be more complex. When a telephone number is first created, it is allocated to a telephone company as park of a block of new numbers. That telephone company then becomes the "range holder" of that telephone number. Going forward, regardless of how many times the telephone number is transferred that relationship between range holder and telephone number remains.

When a customer places an order to move their telephone number from one provider to another, the gaining provider must apply to the range holder (not necessarily the existing provider) to "port" the telephone number to their network.

To give an example;
- A telephone number is created and allocated as part of a block to Sky. Sky become the range holder.
- Some time later, the owner of the telephone number places an order to move their service to PlusNet. PlusNet must place an order with Sky to "port" or re-point the telephone number to the PlusNet network.
- In a few years, the customer wishes to move from PlusNet to TalkTalk. TalkTalk must place an order with Sky *not PlusNet* for the telephone number to be re-pointed to the TalkTalk network.

Each time an order is placed to re-point a telephone number, a "porting agreement" must be in place between the range holder and the gaining provider. Most providers have these agreements with most other providers, but there are still some gaps.

In your case, TalkTalk will have applied to the range holder of your telephone number for re-pointing of the number to their network. It appears that this order is failing, which is why your transfer orders have been cancelled and TalkTalk have advised they will need to provide you with a new number to offer you service on their network.

Without knowing the range holder of your telephone number I cannot advise or speculate on what agreements may or may not be in place between TalkTalk and the range holder. I am however extremely confident that there are no barriers or impediments created by Tesco Broadband and Homephone to prevent you transferring your telephone number to the service provider of your choice.

If we can further assist you with information or advice to help TalkTalk resolve their problem processing your order, please do not hesitate to contact us.

I had assumed that Tesco would be the the "range holder" of my telephone number - how can I find out who is?

As you say, it seems that "BT is my friend" on this occasion

In reply to a post by LockyOK:

I had assumed that Tesco would be the the "range holder" of my telephone number - how can I find out who is?

We already did that http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/4362644-p...

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by LockyOK:

I had assumed that Tesco would be the "range holder" of my telephone number - how can I find out who is?

We already did that http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/4362644-p...

So you are saying that BT is the "range holder" of my telephone number and it is BT who are messing TalkTalk about?

I don't know if it's BT or TT messing about.. I thought you got a similar response from Plusnet who are owned by BT?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I thought you got a similar response from Plusnet who are owned by BT?

No, PN never said OP had to change phone #; they said he don't have a compatible phone service. which is true & expected as he has an LLU phone: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/4362770-r...

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 12-Oct-14 19:09:26)

I'm a bit tired so won't make suggestions at the moment, but I'm posting to point out that if you do manage to sort out a way to move to TalkTalk, then you are likely to have the same problem if and when you want to leave TalkTalk.

To explain - what the helpful Vodafone person missed out was that there are two flavours of MPF. (Which stands for Metallic Path Facility - basically the use of the copper wires!). MPF and SMPF.

For all practical purposes "MPF" means both the phone and broadband are completely handled by LLU equipment. That will normally belong to Vodafone, TalkTalk or Sky.

"SMPF", (Shared Metallic Path Facility), in general means the phone service is provided through Openreach Wholesale Line Rental, (WLR), but the broadband can be with any ISP - BT Wholesale based or LLU. The confusing bit here is that (so far as I know) when you have both your phone and broadband with a BT Wholesale broadband supplier, (e.g. BT Retail, Plusnet, IDNet, etc.), it is still SMPF - shared between Openreach WLR and BT Wholesale broadband.

Vodafone use SMPF outside their LLU area, MPF within it. Sky and TalkTalk basically no longer offer SMPF except in rare circumstances. TalkTalk would be (Full) MPF and leaving them could give the same problem.

Sorry to be a prophet of doom .

What PlusNet said was:

You don't have a compatible phone service. To use our broadband you'll need to take one of our Home Phone packages - we'll give you free activation worth £25.

To be honest, talking to them didn't really inspire confidence in me and I think it has been suggested that there might be issues / delays migrating to them anyhow.

It isn't compatible because it is LLU. If it was with BT, like mine is, possibly Zen, or IDNet, or one of hundred or so others, then it would be compatible.

They are saying you would have to take Plusnet Home Phone so they could move it from (Vodafone) MPF to Plusnet SMPF. Moving the phone to one company and the broadband to another from where you are is out of the question.

Would Plusnet port the number?

Yes, you don't have a compatible phone service cuz your landline is LLU'ed with Vodafone. Any ISP would have said the same. That doesn't mean you have to change you no., just that you need to take out a new phone service.

That is also why when you put you no. in the BTw Checker it does not recognise it. There is a disconnect between the 'range holder' database and the BTw BB database.

There are always issues/delays moving from Full LLU (MPF). That's not PN not being helpful, but them being realistic.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 12-Oct-14 22:53:37)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I'm a bit tired so won't make suggestions at the moment, but I'm posting to point out that if you do manage to sort out a way to move to TalkTalk, then you are likely to have the same problem if and when you want to leave TalkTalk.

To explain - what the helpful Vodafone person missed out was that there are two flavours of MPF. (Which stands for Metallic Path Facility - basically the use of the copper wires!). MPF and SMPF.

For all practical purposes "MPF" means both the phone and broadband are completely handled by LLU equipment. That will normally belong to Vodafone, TalkTalk or Sky.

"SMPF", (Shared Metallic Path Facility), in general means the phone service is provided through Openreach Wholesale Line Rental, (WLR), but the broadband can be with any ISP - BT Wholesale based or LLU. The confusing bit here is that (so far as I know) when you have both your phone and broadband with a BT Wholesale broadband supplier, (e.g. BT Retail, Plusnet, IDNet, etc.), it is still SMPF - shared between Openreach WLR and BT Wholesale broadband.

Vodafone use SMPF outside their LLU area, MPF within it. Sky and TalkTalk basically no longer offer SMPF except in rare circumstances. TalkTalk would be (Full) MPF and leaving them could give the same problem.

Sorry to be a prophet of doom .

Don't worry about being a "Prophet of doom", I would far rather know where I stand now, where I can go next and how I might be able to avoid this problem in the future - if I can! Actually it seems that changes taking place in the industry may make this increasingly difficult - despite the existence of the seemingly toothless OFCOM.

For some years now I have tried to make a point of changing ISP every year in order to benefit from "Introductory Offers" - I do the same with my car and house insurance. There has usually been no significant problem doing this with ISPs in the past, I get a different ADSL Modem/Router from the new ISP, return the old one to the ISP I am leaving and typically suffer 24 hours of no 'phone or Broadband.

Would I be correct in believing that Tesco/Vodafone switched me from SMPF to MPF without my knowledge and this is where my problems began?
How can I tell whether an ISP uses SMPF or MPF? They are unlikely to tell me, even if the salesperson knows and the online signup certainly isn't going to warn me.

I am sure that there are good technical reasons for all these shenanigans but it certainly seems that it makes switching harder and OFCOM seems to be incapable of keeping up with what is going on

In reply to a post by LockyOK:

Would I be correct in believing that Tesco/Vodafone switched me from SMPF to MPF without my knowledge

They probably put you on MPF from the start as that is what they operare at your exchange. Who were you with before Tesco? Did you mean that they were SMPF?

ISPs sell you a BB service; they don't necessarily specify to custs what technology they will use to achieve that service. Tesco is one of the better ones in that they do.

I think this is a deficiency in BB contracts. As an analogy, when you look at buying a car you can usually see the complete spec. of all the technology used to make the car.

Considering the specification of all the parts in a car you get told very little at the time of sale.Certainly no-one ever tells you the family/specification of the silicon that forms the electronic subsystems and most dealerships sales staff are probably stumped if you ask for location of OBD2 port

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

you get told very little at the time of sale.

Don't ask a car salesman, look online. Same goes for BB.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

<snip>
ISPs sell you a BB service; they don't necessarily specify to custs what technology they will use to achieve that service. Tesco is one of the better ones in that they do.
<snip>

Not in my case they didn't and frankly, getting any useful information out of Tesco/Vodafone has proven to be an absolute nightmare

No, they might not tell you but you can find it out on their website. See that link RobertoS gave you here. Not many ISPs are so open.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

No, they might not tell you but you can find it out on their website. See that link RobertoS gave you here. Not many ISPs are so open.

"But Mr Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning office for the last nine months."

"Oh yes, well as soon as I heard I went straight round to see them, yesterday afternoon. You hadn't exactly gone out of your way to call attention to them, had you? I mean, like actually telling anybody or anything."

"But the plans were on display ..."

"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."

"That's the display department."

"With a flashlight."

"Ah, well the lights had probably gone."

"So had the stairs."

"But look, you found the notice didn't you?"

"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'."

It's called research before you buy!

To be fair, the percentage of the population that understand anything about broadband outside how to use a browser and email has to be small. Expecting people to research the various land-based technologies before choosing a supplier is in my opinion pushing it.

Re the car example, do you know what type of power assistance the steering of yours has - assuming it has any? Whose engine management system does it have?

What suppliers should be doing is drawing specific attention to key factors such as this one, and in particular the implications. However, can we really expect any ISP to point out to potential customers that they may have a problem moving elsewhere later? Do Virgin Media?

As you say, Tesco, with that entry on their website, are amongst the better ones. But I only found it because I knew what I was looking for in the google search terms.

On the other hand, I'm with you to the extent that anyone always seeking for the cheapest deal on anything - not just broadband, particularly annually with discount deals, is one day going to come a cropper. Fortunately this isn't a major one.

Personally I keep the line rental BT based (WLR) with a different company to the one supplying broadband - that way the broadband can be 21CN WBC or partial LLU (SMPF) and there is no chance of falling into the trap of full LLU (MPF.)

Currently both line rental (Zen) and Broadband (xilo/uno TTB SMPF) are on one month minimum terms which does make things more expensive but it does give one more flexibility. The option of Plusnet FTTC broadband only and keeping line rental with Zen is also open to me but that would involve a long term contract with Plusnet for FTTC.

For the cheapest deals then line rental and broadband packages on long term contacts are the best but it is not always clear whether they are full LLU or not. Many folks walk into a TalkTalk full LLU package without being aware of it. However once with TalkTalk there is the option of re-contacting and switching from ADSL2+ to VDSL, something which my cousin has just done and he is not bothered about flexibility, LLU etc. since the service is fine and inexpensive

Best of luck with the migration of broadband and the line rental switch - think I would tend to avoid BT Retail and perhaps choose a Plusnet WLR/WBC contract in order to get out of the full LLU predicament.

Another promising email from Tesco/Vodafone:

To see if I can further assist you with the problem transferring your telephone number, I have raised a request to our number porting team to determine the range holder for your telephone number. I can see that when you transferred your services to us in July 2013, the order type was what we would term an "OLO (Other Line Operator) Transfer". This indicates only that the number range holder was a provider other than BT. If you could advise to whom you paid line rental prior to moving to our service, this may assist in my investigations.

A move from SMPF to MPF service should not in itself create any difficulties in migrating between providers. While on an MPF service a customer cannot move their services individually (e.g., move broadband but keep line rental) as the product is based on one single piece of equipment providing both services. This innovation is, in large part, responsible for the great reduction in retail prices for home broadband services over the last 5 years. In theory, the move to MPF services as the industry standard should make switching easier, as it does away with the need for a customer to obtain a MAC from their broadband provider. However, in some cases number porting between certain range holders and service providers does continue to cause some issues in specific cases.

I suspect that my query has been escalated to someone who does actually know what they are talking about which is reassuring, I just wish these things were not necessary - have a read of Tom Peters!

As to the comment about researching before purchasing I accept your point. However, even if I had identified that Tesco was in fact Vodafone, I'm not convinced that I could have discovered how they were using my phone line and even if I had done so, I wouldn't have understood the significance.

The point about knowing the cost of everything but the value of nothing is perhaps more relevant but I still come back to the belief that I have yet to encounter an ISP that provides a quality service . . . Demon were pretty good before they sold out to Pipex

Please tread carefully and be sure not to allow a broadband cease on your line.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Please tread carefully and be sure not to allow a broadband cease on your line.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here?

Broadband cease when a provider puts an order to cease service, and this can result in an extra charge from Openreach which is passed back up the chain to the consumer (check your T&C's)

A cease would hold up a migration too, since once a line has been ceased a migration is not possible, only a provide and it also carries the risk of the phone number being put back into the pool of available numbers.

Who would cease my service & why? I have not asked Tesco/Vodafone to do this & they are my provider.

In reply to a post by LockyOK:

Who would cease my service & why? I have not asked Tesco/Vodafone to do this & they are my provider.

Because you are moving from full LLU and there are apparently issues with your phone number/line rental the broadband could be inadvertently ceased on your line - this sometimes happens when broadband is "cancelled" with a provider rather than properly "migrated" to the gaining provider. Generally it's a good idea to request a MAC key, whether it's actually required or not, and make it clear that one wishes to migrate the broadband to a new provider.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Generally it's a good idea to request a MAC key

MPF ISPs don't issue MACs. MACs only apply to WLR lines.

In reference to www.tescobroadband.com/HelpAndSupport/Articles/View/2285?cat=1171:

1) Generally if you take Tesco Broadband with line rental or Tesco Homephone and wish to migrate to another provider we are unable to issue a MAC. However your new provider should be able to place an order without a MAC.

The exception will be where Tesco ls not LLU'ed.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Tue 14-Oct-14 13:40:27)

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

MPF ISPs don't issue MACs. MACs only apply to WLR lines.

Thanks for that - hopefully the gaining provider will be able to complete the migration of broadband and the switch of line rental plus retain the phone number without any difficulty.

So the OP doesn't have to make any initial contact with Tesco regarding the migration? " We will write to you, at the postal address that you have provided, to inform you that a migration to another provider has started..."

In my past experience, all you need to do is sign up with the "NEW" provider and tell them who you are with at the moment, you don't need to tell your current provider (although I ALWAYS do). As a rule, the "OLD" supplier contacts you AFTER you have left making you a new offer - too late to be of any use.

One other thing I have noticed is that ADSL2 seems to get slower and slower month by month - with everyone - I never get anywhere near 17 Mbps any more, typically nearer to 13 Mbps.

With everyone is a bit of a generalisation, the speed test data does not bear that out on national basis

In reply to a post by LockyOK:

In my past experience, all you need to do is sign up with the "NEW" provider and tell them who you are with at the moment, you don't need to tell your current provider (although I ALWAYS do). As a rule, the "OLD" supplier contacts you AFTER you have left making you a new offer - too late to be of any use.

Let's face it, no current ISP, is willing to satisfy your customer requirements, (price/same phone number),at a price you are willing to pay.

Have you tried haggling the price of your broadband with your current supplier?

Edited by deleted (Tue 14-Oct-14 16:23:05)

In reply to a post by LockyOK:

One other thing I have noticed is that ADSL2 seems to get slower and slower month by month - with everyone - I never get anywhere near 17 Mbps any more, typically nearer to 13 Mbps.

Very few slow downs in the past 2 years with xilo/uno SMPF TTB ADSL2+ and when there was a throughput issue it was promptly and actively sorted out together with compensation - they have an extremely efficient ticketing system

In reply to a post by LockyOK:

One other thing I have noticed is that ADSL2 seems to get slower and slower month by month - with everyone

Just not true! If you in particular are experiencing that then you could well have a fixable fault. Post your router stats and we can see.

And you do mean ADSL2+! You just don't get 17 or 13 Meg on ADSL2.