Pembroke (SWPM) Capacity Issues?

My speeds have been all over the place recently (for several weeks), usually hovering below the 30 meg level, TAP 3 test highlights poor throughput, and the HG612 reports a sync of 65999. Some nights the speed is down to single digits - I could be back on ADSL!

My ISP (Vivaciti) tell me that there is apparently a capacity issue that BTw need to address and that the next update on this will be Thursday next week. I know there are several others on the same exchange that post here so I was wondering if anyone else locally is having a similar experience, There was a time this was easily checkable through the Plusnet status service but then BTw removed the information from the public domain - obviously preferring to obscure the reason for performance issues.

You would have thought that a "world leader in telecoms" would use some reasonable skill and care to anticipate issues like this (in the service they sell) and plan capacity upgrades instead of this attitude of wandering over to the stable door when the horse has long since bolted - taking the performance with it!

I guess it is better for them to be billing our ISP's for service levels they are not delivering - in my case anything over 40 megs seems unattainable because of this issue, and yet they are happily billing Vivaciti for the full up-to 80 megs service that should be giving well north of 50 megs on my line.

Just love this broadband farce.

Last week I was told by my ISP that the speedtests I had run indicated I was on a hot VLAN, they checked and found that it was on a list for attention, tonight I called my ISP for an update. They checked and found it had disappeared from the list, and BT are now saying that they need to send an SFI out to check my set up.

According to my ISP, the many Tap3 tests I have run clearly show its NOT the line but a capacity issue. meanwhile BTw happily charge for a service they must know they are not delivering. nice work if you can get it.

Ironically today the media was full of the new OFCOM regs about dissolving a contract if speeds dont measure up to what they are supposed to be, isnt it a shame that OFCOM are not as keen to puch BT for thier shortcomings - which are often the cause of speed issues. right now my line returns anything between 62 megs and 7 megs depending on the time of day. Im sure my ip Profile has been lowered as well.

Talked to ISP last night... the dreaded three letters intruded into the conversation..... Stupid Farcical Irritation. BTw are claiming that the hot Vlan issue has been cleared, and my problems must lay elsewhere, well I have unlocked the HG 612 and can see a sync of 66999 which hasn't changed in weeks but what I really notice is that the connection performs fine early in the morning before I go to work, Throughput speed is noticeably lower when I get home late afternoon and drops as the evening progresses until late in the evening when it returns towards normal level, Now isn't that a perplexing problem never before encountered?

I have started collecting speedtest results as last night the tech support guy couldn't see a Tap3 result from a test I ran 30 mins previously - in itself disturbing - so I have started to log results myself, starting with the "missing" and to illustrate just part of one day here are todays so far..... I have called the tests differently as no one else here is confident in altering modem settings so although the second test was below IP Profile a tap3 wasn't run.

IP Profile 64.85 Mbps Down - 20Mbps Up

Tap 3 test 1 18.44 12/6/15 Result 11.36Mbps down - 1.33Mbps up.
Ordinary Test 07.41 13/6/15 Result 63.76Mbps down - 13.85Mbps up
Ordinary Test 10.40 13/06/15 Result 45.37Mbps down - 13.67 Up
Tap 3 Test 2 13.27 13/6/15 Result 25.16<bps down - 0.83Mbps up

This is typical of what I have been seeing for a few weeks on a daily basis.
Looks more like a capacity issue than a line fault wouldn't you think? At busy times speed disappears and at quiet times I'm getting topside of 60Mbps throughput. I'm reluctant to lose more time at work for an "SFI" visit for someone to come in , plug in a laptop in place of my modem, run a few tests and go away that there is no defect he can find as has happened so many times with the line drop issue that has plagued my line since broadband started.

Life was so simple on dial up, the problems were cured by a simple gain boost, so even on dial up the line has given problems..... I have been trying to get broadband stability fixed since around 2001.

Ask the provider to get BT to detail the current provisioned SFBB capacity at the cabinet and what the utilisation is.

Matt

In reply to a post by uno:

Ask the provider to get BT to detail the current provisioned SFBB capacity at the cabinet and what the utilisation is. Matt

Ok... As you have raised this point I get an idea you feel this information should be available, however a call to my ISP just now met with a stone wall.

That information wouldn't be provided to us, Bt Openreach would check the virtual path and decide if there was action needed.

Right now I am paying over £30 a month for a connection that this evening is matching my old ADSL2 connection at 7Mbps, this measured over a PPPOE connection from my laptop via a new cat 6 ethernet cable into the HG612.

The ISP are adamant the next step is to lose ANOTHER half day for an SFI visit, I told them I was considering the future of this connection, certainly I wont be staying with them at the end of the year... assuming I stay that long.

Yes, it is! They'll need to be a bit more persistent.

Matt

Sorry to but in here but @uno not accepting PM's...

Matt, Any word on the launch (rebrand) completion date for Broadband yet?

And therein is one of the problems, disinterested support.

To add insult to injury, I had to disconnect the router tonight as the connection didn't seem to drop when I wanted to try the pppoe from my laptop, when I ran the test my IP profile has been lowered. Im no more than 350 metres from the cabinet so its not like I'm on the edge of capability.

I just ran a test vis the tester here, 13.8 bursting to 16.7 down, 6.6 to 17.9 up.

Just what I need.. more upload than download but its better than the last tap3 test... @ 21.35 13/6/15 Result 7.01Mbps down - 2.07Mbps up.

BTw site wont even let me run a tap3 test now... what a crock "currently unable to test your connection" or words to that effect.

The test I ran at 23.10 returned 8.31 down 14.08 up - I can only wonder what the tap3 would have returned.

At 1 am... BTw returns a result of 55Mbps, by 6.45 am this had risen to 60Mbps....

I just ran a test here too and that shows 57.7 bursting to 59 down - 14.6 bursting to 20.4 up.

Hmmmmmmm

Edited by deleted (Sun 14-Jun-15 06:59:25)

...and having sunk as low as 7 Mbps last night this morning it has miraculously recovered to 64Mbps.

Tap3 Test 5 21.35 13/6/15 Result 7.01Mbps down - 2.07Mbps up
Tap3 Test 6 00.30 14/6/15 Result 22.29Mbps down - 0.98Mbps up
Ordinary Test 01.05 14/6/15 Result 55.31Mbps down - 11.29Mbps up
Ordinary Test 06.48 14/6/15 Result 60.86Mbps down - 13.01Mbps up
Ordinary Test 08.25 14/6/15 Result 60.73Mbps down - 13.45 Mbps up
Ordinary Test 11.30 14/6/15 Result 56.59Mbps down - 13.56Mbps up
Tap3 Test 7 13.05 14/6/15 Result 36.72Mbps down - 0.89 Mbps up
Ordinary Test 16.38 14/6/15 Result 57.53Mbps down - 14.24Mbps up
Tap 3 test 8 16.59 14/6/15 Result 13.96Mbps down - 2.24Mbps up
Tap 3 Test 9 18.06 14/6/15 Result 12.46Mbps down - 2.17Mbps up
Tap 3 Test 10 19.42 14/6/15 Result 9.32Mbps down - 1.94Mbps up
Tap 3 Test 11 22.15 14/6/15 Result 7.42Mbps down - 1.84Mbps up
Tap 3 Test 12 23.00 14/6/15 Result 10.01Mbps down - 2.12Mbps up
Ordinary Test 07.35 15/6/15 Result 64.66Mbps down - 14.21Mbps up.

I must be imagining the pattern I am seeing here, because... well I could swear it only seems to be an issue at times when many people are probably on line... and goes away when things would be expected to be quiet...

Back on the phone to Vivaciti today and see it I get hold of a supprt member who can CBA to push BT for the current provisioned SFBB capacity at the cabinet and what the utilisation is......

Edited by deleted (Mon 15-Jun-15 07:51:34)

In reply to a post by uno:

Ask the provider to get BT to detail the current provisioned SFBB capacity at the cabinet and what the utilisation is.

Matt

There are precisely zero cabinets on the entire Openreach real estate that are maxing out their backhaul according to most recent information, Matt.

Maybe so but this isn't always the case hence the reason suggested they check.

Although "maxing out their backhaul" and "current provisioned SFBB capacity" are very different things.

Matt

So the parent exchange of Pembroke, Haverfordwest, has had some capacity issues historically.

BT Wholesale also apparently maxed out their capacity to the Openreach GEA network on the exchange.

I'm unsure whether a new CableLink has been installed yet. This may be delayed pending hardware and software upgrade of BT Wholesale's Multiservice Edge Router at Haverfordwest in the early hours of Wednesday of this week.

This would explain performance issues.

These issues would potentially be affecting customers on:

Haverfordwest
Pembroke
Johnston
Milford Haven
Neyland
Manorbier
Clynderwen
Angle

In reply to a post by uno:

Maybe so but this isn't always the case hence the reason suggested they check.

Although "maxing out their backhaul" and "current provisioned SFBB capacity" are very different things.

Matt

Matt, the links from the cabinets do essentially nothing besides backhaul SFBB.

If you can find any cases where a cabinet has maxed out its backhaul to the handover point please do share - Openreach seem to be under the impression it hasn't happened, which seems reasonable given it'd require users to be pushing an average of 20Mb/s - more than 20 times the average peak usage for an SFBB customer.

I know this.

However, the bandwidth provisioned to a cabinet is often far less which is then raised in steps based on the utilisation.

To stress, I am not on about a cabinet maxing out the backhaul but hitting a provisioned limit that can be raised on usable bandwidth.

(Some background. Customer on FTTC, poor speeds at "peak times". Suspected as a SFBB capacity issue. Pretty BT graphs followed showing average utilisation and provisioned SFBB capacity. After many fights, they admitted it was hitting the upper limit and causing "congestion". Provisioned SFBB capacity was raised the next day resolving the issue).

Matt

In reply to a post by uno:

I know this.BT graphs followed showing average utilisation and provisioned SFBB capacity. After many fights, they admitted it was hitting the upper limit and causing "congestion".

LOL

That reminds me of the converse.

Many years ago Harold Wilson, then PM, went on TV saying his aim for the education system was that all pupils would achieve above average levels.

In reply to a post by uno:

I know this.

However, the bandwidth provisioned to a cabinet is often far less which is then raised in steps based on the utilisation.

To stress, I am not on about a cabinet maxing out the backhaul but hitting a provisioned limit that can be raised on usable bandwidth.

(Some background. Customer on FTTC, poor speeds at "peak times". Suspected as a SFBB capacity issue. Pretty BT graphs followed showing average utilisation and provisioned SFBB capacity. After many fights, they admitted it was hitting the upper limit and causing "congestion". Provisioned SFBB capacity was raised the next day resolving the issue).

Matt

You're talking about SVLANs, not cabinet backhauls. SVLANs go from BTWholesale's exchange edge routers to the rest of their network.

These are conveniently prefixed SFBB- in the reports.

The Openreach cabinet backhauls are point to point GigE links dedicated to taking traffic from a cabinet to a port on a switch. Not a lot of point in limiting uncontended links.

The BT Wholesale SVLANs are a different story; they share physical links out of the local MSE so are rate limited and those limits raised as required to make better use of the physical links.

Indeed.. but I never said I was talking about backhaul.

Matt

In reply to a post by uno:

Indeed.. but I never said I was talking about backhaul.

Matt

I have no idea what that has to do with what I've said.

All I said was that the SFBB capacity issue you were talking about related to BT Wholesale backhaul being split into SVLANs and it was on one of those where the issue you mentioned arose. Alongside that that cabinet backhaul is not rate limited.

Would you mind letting me know which bit I've gotten wrong? Thanks.

Ive been away for a couple of days, on my journey I killed some time on the train by calling Vivaciti and pushing the guy I spoke to to follow the suggestion of Matt from Uno and request the SFBB data for my cab. They were not keen and were still pushing for SFI involvement but I told them I couldn't see the worth for an SFI visit during the day when speeds are often good to fair, and that looking back over the speedtests over the last few weeks I could see it was behaving exactly like peak time capacity issues.

Strangely While at 7.20 yesterday morning my line was dragging along at 4.57Mbps, it improved throughout the day, and today hasn't dipped below 59Megs during the time have been home, This time last week would have seen the line headed for single digit levels.

Hopefully it is sorted... somehow..... Time will tell, but generally I found Support lacking, its a mark against remaining with this ISP when my contract is up at Xmas. Meantime I am replacing all the Ethernet cabling (again) this time with short cat6 patches (mostly 0.5 m) and have a 1 metre ADSLnation lead coming for the modem.
Modem stats below - although the line att doesnt seem to be reported....
Downstream Upstream
Attainable rate (kbit/s) 89924 26975
SNR margin (dB) 7.9 7.9
Line attenuation (dB) 0 0
Output power (dBmV) 13.3 7.6

Downstream Upstream Downstream Upstream
Line rate (kbit/s) 66999 19999 0 0
CRC errors 26254 0 0 0
FEC errors 956 0 0 0
HEC errors 6794 0 0 0

Hate the way the forum software scrambles the carefully arranged columns of data I typed...

In reply to a post by warweezil:

Ive been away for a couple of days, on my journey I killed some time on the train by calling Vivaciti and pushing the guy I spoke to to follow the suggestion of Matt from Uno and request the SFBB data for my cab. They were not keen and were still pushing for SFI involvement but I told them I couldn't see the worth for an SFI visit during the day when speeds are often good to fair, and that looking back over the speedtests over the last few weeks I could see it was behaving exactly like peak time capacity issues.

Strangely While at 7.20 yesterday morning my line was dragging along at 4.57Mbps, it improved throughout the day, and today hasn't dipped below 59Megs during the time have been home, This time last week would have seen the line headed for single digit levels.

Hopefully it is sorted... somehow..... Time will tell, but generally I found Support lacking, its a mark against remaining with this ISP when my contract is up at Xmas. Meantime I am replacing all the Ethernet cabling (again) this time with short cat6 patches (mostly 0.5 m) and have a 1 metre ADSLnation lead coming for the modem.
Modem stats below - although the line att doesnt seem to be reported....

Downstream 	Upstream
Attainable rate (kbit/s)	       89924	26975
SNR margin (dB)	                            7.9	7.9
Line attenuation (dB)                  	0	0
Output power (dBmV)	           13.3	7.6

                     Downstream 	      Upstream 	Downstream 	Upstream
Line rate (kbit/s)	66999 	      19999 	             0 	0 
CRC errors	                26254 	        0 	                     0 	0 
FEC errors	                    956 	        0 	                     0 	0 
HEC errors	                  6794              0                           0         0

Hate the way the forum software scrambles the carefully arranged columns of data I typed...

Try using "pre" tags

Its strange, last week I killed some time on a train journey calling Vivaciti and pushing for the SFBB data to be requested, reminding them that the issue was a peak time one in hours that SFIs are most likely at home watching TV rather than sitting in customers homes watching speed leach away, and that given that the line had normal performance for most of the daytime hours an SFI visit was unlikely to produce much apart from ANOTHER afternoon of lost earnings due to BTs' cruddy copper loop in this area.

I make no apologies for expressing my annoyance at the situation on the phone, I'm sick of being told that I need to lose half a days pay for an "SFI" (whatever that is supposed to be apart from a meaningless - and expensive for the customer - title) Having told them repeatedly that the speed collapses outside of "office hours", having Openjoke in here during the day is unlikely to reveal anything, as has been the case over 10 years of random line drops.

Anyhow.. Getting back Tuesday night at 11pm a Speedtest returned 64Mbps, and apart from an unusually low test the following morning that was a 7Mbps result, it has since then not dipped below 59.84Mbps and is generally in the mid 60's. So there we have it, one minute it needs a visit that can potentially be charged and yet during a 2 day absence it miraculously fixes itself / is fixed proving that I was right about it being pointless sitting around here for half a day.

Edited by deleted (Sun 21-Jun-15 13:04:37)