Why this passion for speed?

I have just switched to BT Infinity - now getting 37 instead of 7Mbs. This is fine but there's not a lot of difference, the most important for me is uploading speed. Where formally it could take 2+ hrs to upload a 10 min YouTube, it's now clear in say 12 mins. I heard a politician this week say "everyone should have 100Mbs." Why? Sorry but I don't see it at all. I'd have been quite happy for 90% of my work to have stuck on 7Mbs. Some sites still buffer - but presumably that's their fault not BTs.
Please tell me where I'm mistaken.

In reply to a post by MissMoppet:

I have just switched to BT Infinity - now getting 37 instead of 7Mbs. This is fine but there's not a lot of difference, the most important for me is uploading speed. Where formally it could take 2+ hrs to upload a 10 min YouTube, it's now clear in say 12 mins. I heard a politician this week say "everyone should have 100Mbs." Why? Sorry but I don't see it at all. I'd have been quite happy for 90% of my work to have stuck on 7Mbs. Some sites still buffer - but presumably that's their fault not BTs.
Please tell me where I'm mistaken.

I agree to an extent, but it depends how you use your connection. I run a Owncloud server, as well as backup and syncing services so upload and download speed are both important to me.

I think you're right saying that upload speed is probably overlooked a lot.

Well with a family of 5 i'd take all the speed that was offered to me, currently at 6mbps so doesn't run to good when 3 people are running netflix. and with all this 4k tech coming along we'll need it

In reply to a post by MissMoppet:

Please tell me where I'm mistaken.

You've answered your own question

Where formally it could take 2+ hrs to upload a 10 min YouTube, it's now clear in say 12 mins.

When you do photo and video production work.. then speed is really useful.

I have moved and finally after a long delay waiting for line and FTTC to be installed, I have some connectivity. Previously had a 150Mbps connection (12 up) and now only (apologies to those who can't get these speeds) 28/5.5 Not rural just 1.2km to the PCP.

That said due to some video work I was doing combining both uploaded and downloads for a 8 hour period yesterday racked up about 80GB worth of data movements. I wish I could have had a 80/20 line (or as I am hoping at some point 330/30) as it would have saved a lot of waiting.

As you suggest though some people won't notice perhaps or care either way but there are a growing number of people who have a thirst for more speed.

I also wish I could increase my upload speed..

In reply to a post by MissMoppet:

I have just switched to BT Infinity - now getting 37 instead of 7Mbs. This is fine but there's not a lot of difference, the most important for me is uploading speed. Where formally it could take 2+ hrs to upload a 10 min YouTube, it's now clear in say 12 mins. I heard a politician this week say "everyone should have 100Mbs." Why? Sorry but I don't see it at all. I'd have been quite happy for 90% of my work to have stuck on 7Mbs. Some sites still buffer - but presumably that's their fault not BTs.
Please tell me where I'm mistaken.

There is a bit of an obsession with speed when really two related factors should be discussed: Bandwidth (amount of data over time) and latency (amount of time it takes to get an piece of data from A to B)

Latency affects the 'stickyness' of interactive applications (gaming, voice of IP, remote logins etc) and for me is the more important factor than absolute bandwidth. Ideally latency under load of the link should not increase significantly. Latency on a link can never decrease, you can increase the bandwidth (buy another line and pair them together) but you'll not decrease the latency by doing so.

There's been quite a bit of research into 'bufferbloat', a condition that has affected home routers whereby latency increases under load; set that download/upload going and your web browsing or interactive login response times go slow & sticky. This condition can be managed, see wiki 'bufferbloat' and 'codel'.

A fairly contended link is a wonderful thing, even if it doesn't quite have the bandwidth you'd like at least the interactive stuff doesn't get penalised by the big, fat up/downloads.

In reply to a post by woodmass14:

Well with a family of 5 i'd take all the speed that was offered to me, currently at 6mbps so doesn't run to good when 3 people are running netflix. and with all this 4k tech coming along we'll need it

for 5 people 100mbps will be plenty, even with 4K!

I would actually say that 50mbps would be plenty enough but I'll be generous by saying 20mb.

I don't understand why everyone seems to think they need a substantial download speed in their home connections... even with 4K coming, the likely hood of 5 people streaming separate 4K streams at the same time is unlikely and the fact is that it will be streamed using a compression method so will use less bandwidth than people seem to be anticipating anyway.

I think each person in a house hold should have 10mbps bandwidth available to them, so a household of three would have 30mbps connection and when more bandwidth (20mbps) is required for one person it can be shared from each persons allowance temporarily as in most cases this will only be a short burst of speed to build a buffer.

Anyway, many are also forgetting that most ISP's have customers suffering peak time bandwidth shortages or in most cases a single threads bandwidth is cut from say 50mbps to 10Mbps meaning 10mbps will only be available for one stream instead of 50mbps, and my findings are this is fine, but the more bandwidth people are allowed/try to pull the worst everyone connections will get nationwide.

I remember reading a couple of months back about our Internet usage being managed more in future due to the power usage but I think the same thing will start happening again with bandwidth.

try downloading a 50 gig game and you may appreciate it

also multitasking with multiple netflix hd streams going.

all depends on usage really.

Or uploading a whole bunch of raw digital photos.

I like the idea of faster speeds but my usage would be very bursty for the most part - want the speed for a short period of time and then won't use much at all for a while.

I would buy the BT 330/30 service at a reasonable price (not the price that FTTPoD was pitched at and not for a 3 year contract).

My brother has just got proper FTTP available. I told him his options around packages. As I say, I would have gone for the 200 or 330Mb packages - he went for the 40Mb package - what a waste

Considering the OP has only just converted over from a slow ADSL service, it will probably take them some time to shake off the shackles imposed by the snail-paced previous service.

Of Course 100 mbps would be plenty, we're managing on 6mbps with QoS on but more speed is never a bad thing, and 4k was just an example, the way gaming is going also, there becoming bigger and bigger each year and with cloud storage as well, but then again i'd be happy with 10mbps and/or 100mbps.

Also that hyperoptic is selling 1gbps for 30 quid a month whereas some people are paying the same price for 76mbps "80" personally i'd go for the 1gig one even if it was a few quid extra, stupid example "i know" as they don't operate in very many places but if your being offered higher speeds for the same price your paying you aint going to say no, i certainly wouldn't

It is interesting to look at the product spread for people like Gigaclear and Hyperoptic, some do opt for Gig, but most are on the lower speed tiers. A similar pattern with Virgin Media

Put at its simplest once you get past a speed where you run 2 or 3 HD streams the desire for more speed tends to be a lot smaller. This will change in time but even then many will opt for what is just enough or even elect to save some money and wait longer for stuff to arrive.

definitely, 1gbps is rather of the scale and would never use it. It is compelling though.

It's just like saying that NO car needs to exceed 70mph...!
Mine, according to spec, does >199mph.
Alas I never had the chance to try it, but I would like to...
Martin

In reply to a post by woodmass14:

definitely, 1gbps is rather of the scale and would never use it. It is compelling though.

Agreed.

We are down for FTTP which is still down to go live the end of July according to the emails from BTOR so about 8 days to go.

We are going with the full 330/30 due all 5 of us here all use the internet, whether its downloading a 50GB game, updates to several Windows, Mac or Linux boxes along with uploading media content online, watching Netflix, Amazon Prime, Sky On demand etc, our current 5Mbps just cannot cut it LOL.

The way I see it, to get the best speed for the buck it would be the 330/30 with BT (I think option 5, not checked recently), granted after the first year if 330/30 isn't being used as much we may drop down to a speed that ideally fits our needs.

It would be nice to be able to download 50GB in around 22m instead of around 22h 13m on our current 5Mbps connection.

Also I am a software/game developer which sometimes need to upload huge created data files and our 0.8Mbps upload speed just doesn't cut it either, granted FTTC speeds would of been great but with FTTP the 30Mbps upload speeds means it would either be done faster or been able to slow it down a little so not to take up the full upstream.

I have been reading up on G.FAST and wasn't fully sure if that was really for the FTTC upgrade to the pole, or if it would also be available for FTTP users, granted the combined 1Gbps would be nice.

TBH I think that is at the moment 1Gbps a bit of an over kill, not saying it would be fine in the future, but what I liked if I read it correctly was the feature to be able to customize your up and down stream on the fly so if you picked say a combined bandwidth of 400Mbps you could have it as 300Mbps down and 100Mbps up, so downloading would be still great for downloading content etc as well as being able to upload content rather fast as well.

But I have most probably misread stuff, but it still would of been nice though

Paul

BT no longer do 300/30 it is 300/19.

Go to bt.com.....enter a FTTP postcode and address .....click show packages.....scroll down to infinity 4 (300 Mb download speeds) .....click on full details........hovver over speed.

screenie on onedrive

Ian

I think that's a copy and paste error, people I know down my road that have had FTTP since 2011 have been getting around give or take 330/30 (or 300/30 if you want to call it that) and they defiantly don't get 20Mbps up.

I will question that once ours go live in about 8 days (crosses fingers)

Paul

I think the upload speed provisioned changed about 6 months ago; perhaps Mr S may have evidence of upload speeds on fttp.

In reply to a post by ian007jen:

I think the upload speed provisioned changed about 6 months ago; perhaps Mr S may have evidence of upload speeds on fttp.

I will try and get some the next time I see them pass my house.

Also if BT dropped the 30Mbps upload down to 20Mbps then wouldn't their dsl checker page reflect this change.

Paul

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/isp/bt/package/1480.html

Retailers can apply whatever caps they desire of course.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/isp/bt/package/1480.html

Thanks for the link, isn't that Option 4, was there an Option 5 which was the full 30Mbps up?

Even if we got the 20Mbps up, that's still good enough, well its better than the 0.8Mbps we get currently on our ADSL2+ connection LOL

Paul

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Retailers can apply whatever caps they desire of course.

Oh I know and understand that, it was due to the last time I checked it was 30 up which tallies up with their DSL Checker and also what they are getting down our road, well the last time I spoke to them they was.

I will enquire once it all goes live, like I said hopefully in 8 days.
Just emailed BTOR to check the date hasn't been pushed back (even though all the work has been completed)

Paul

Don't ever recall an option 5 - it may have existed but I tend to remember daft things like that.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Don't ever recall an option 5 - it may have existed but I tend to remember daft things like that.

I thought Option 4 was the 330/20 and Option 5 was the 330/30.

Or was that Option 3 and 4, like I said its been a while since I fully checked.

Anyhow 20 up is still better than 0.8Mbps LOL

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Thu 23-Jul-15 09:49:43)

And by magic I can find the speed tests.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
This is a BT user and their postcode confirms native WBC FTTP available.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
A different user on BT, FTTC available but also fibre on demand so implication someone has ordered FoD via BT, so will be business division I believe.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

And by magic I can find the speed tests.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
This is a BT user and their postcode confirms native WBC FTTP available.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
A different user on BT, FTTC available but also fibre on demand so implication someone has ordered FoD via BT, so will be business division I believe.

Bit confused now, so is that saying it used to be 30Mbps up and is now 20Mbps up, or are you saying its still 30 up?

Because that speed test was dated March 13th 2015 for the WBC FTTP and July 13th 2015 for the second one.

Paul

A native FTTP in a London flat http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

Only broadband option is FTTP to this block of flats too, no sign of copper broadband

Another more recent
http://tbb.st/1435015772336297655

And another on some new build down in Cornwall
http://tbb.st/1437585771252845355 that was run yesterday

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

A native FTTP in a London flat http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

Only broadband option is FTTP to this block of flats too, no sign of copper broadband

Another more recent
http://tbb.st/1435015772336297655

And another on some new build down in Cornwall
http://tbb.st/1437585771252845355 that was run yesterday

LOL, still not answered my question, so due to all these getting 30Mbps up with BT that you are linking to are you saying its still available, or is all the new customers upgrading to FTTP with BT will only get the 20Mbps up?

There is where I am confused, like I said the few people that I know down my road that already have FTTP all apart from 1 have the full speeds, the single one is an elderly couple that got I think the 40/10 package due to it suited them and is still ok when their grand kids visit.

Paul

Cannot say for sure, the FTTP pages on BT Retail sometimes vanish so the curation of them is far from perfect
So if you get something that is clearly 20 Mbps up then will tweak listing.

The data I can see suggests people still getting 30 Mbps so happy to leave it at 30 Mbps for now, unless BT clearly communicate it has dropped other than just on a webpage where copy/paste is often an issue

Is this just down to BT being careful that they are only advertising something that people can definitely get (a bit like saying 76Mb on the 80Mb wholesale package)?

So, the wholesale transport is 330/30 but the advertised retail is 300/20?

Maybe

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Cannot say for sure, the FTTP pages on BT Retail sometimes vanish so the curation of them is far from perfect
So if you get something that is clearly 20 Mbps up then will tweak listing.

Well I was told that our FTTP was down to go live end of July by openreach via email (still waiting for a status update from them), so if that goes to plan, I will enquire with BT what options I have available to us and their speeds and then its an upto 2 weeks for engineer visits to hook us up, only then I will really know the exact speeds.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The data I can see suggests people still getting 30 Mbps so happy to leave it at 30 Mbps for now, unless BT clearly communicate it has dropped other than just on a webpage where copy/paste is often an issue

Yeah, well 20Mbps is still better than nothing, but hoping for 30Mbps up for my content uploads, just means I would have a less of a break between uploads LOL.

Thanks

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/isp/bt/package/1480.html

Thanks for the link, isn't that Option 4, was there an Option 5 which was the full 30Mbps up?

No, Option 4 is the top

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

No, Option 4 is the top

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

Ah, ok, was that the 200Mbps down option or was it due to everyone hammering their connections?

Also I wouldn't mind getting that Burst Speed Upload all the time LOL.

Was that your connection?

Paul

Yes, my connection. Speedtests seem to be impacted by software on my PC and/or BT traffic management.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Yes, my connection. Speedtests seem to be impacted by software on my PC and/or BT traffic management.

Ok, what option did you go with, was it the 200Mbps or the full hog?
I would say OUCH if that was the full hog option.

Paul

According to this page, 330/30 is still available from them.

Very strangely, 100/30 seems to be current, but is hugely (18%) more expensive!

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 23-Jul-15 11:11:58)

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Yes, my connection. Speedtests seem to be impacted by software on my PC and/or BT traffic management.

Perhaps BTW just don't want to offer the bandwidth for 330 any more.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 23-Jul-15 11:14:49)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

According to this page, 330/30 is still available from them.

Very strangely, 100/30 seems to be current, but is hugely (18%) more expensive!

I was about to say its still showing up on that page, I think it was that special price that ended.

Like I said I will find out when my FTTP goes live and is available to order.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

We are going with the full 330/30 due all 5 of us here all use the internet, whether its downloading a 50GB game, updates to several Windows, Mac or Linux boxes along with uploading media content online, watching Netflix, Amazon Prime, Sky On demand etc, our current 5Mbps just cannot cut it LOL.

I expect the 330 is an up to speed. I wonder what speed you will actually get. FTTP does not have the distance and cross talk problems of DSL but there is still contention and the way the back haul equipment is configured.

Simply because leisure and entertainment are not the only uses of the internet. I use 50/50, leisure/work.

For leisure my old ADSL at near full synch speed was fine. For home working that involves moving big files ( >15Gb) my full synch speed Infinity 2 is a vital tool. ADSL was a bottleneck in my work flow that resulted in not being able to offer fast delivery times.. equals not competitive.

In order to stay up with with "big city" competitors I would like even faster upload, but I'm not going to get it without a very costly leased line or bonding things.

So if you are a web developer, moving image creative, IT consultant or in one of a hundred other such home-working niches you will always want "faster" . 8)