New line installation preparations

I'm going to be getting a second line installed and was wondering if anybody knew what site preparations OR engineers will make use of.

There's two pairs to the building so I don't anticipate the need to run any new cables. Although the second pair used to have two voice lines on it (both of which have long since been ceased) and so currently has a DACS attached; which I expect can simply get removed?

I want the new master socket to be installed adjacent to that used for the main voice/broadband line - this is located where the cable enters the building. But I'd prefer not to have the new NTE surface mounted with a cable on the wall between them.

If I were to sink a 35mm single gang flush mount back box next to the existing master socket (which is already flush mounted) and put in a buried conduit between the two back boxes, would the OR chap make use of it?

I asked the ISP the same question and they basicallty said it would be at the discretion of the engineer.

Would it be routine, need extra biscuits or strictly against the rules?

That is often what is done in new builds with the box and CW1308 cable in place for BT to connect to. In your case there is still the technicians discretion as to whether it is suitable.

Are you going to order a simultaneous provide, with a second FTTC? That could give a problem with the VDSL2 faceplate.

Depending on the ISP ordering the FTTC after the line is installed would possibly be a self-install so you could then use a dangly filter. What is your existing setup regarding this?

If you have done all that I'd be 99% sure the installer would be more than happy to use your suggestion.

I would.

Even without Fig Newtons?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Are you going to order a simultaneous provide, with a second FTTC? That could give a problem with the VDSL2 faceplate.

Depending on the ISP ordering the FTTC after the line is installed would possibly be a self-install so you could then use a dangly filter. What is your existing setup regarding this?

It's supposed to be a simultaneous provide but the FTTC is wires-only. I was notified of a second date for installation this morning, though, which I need to check whether that's a re-schedule or if I'm looking at one date for the line and another for the FTTC (or maybe one date for DACS removal and one for the installation perhaps?).

The existing line is an engineer install with a VDSL2 faceplate.

That fits on a flush NTE5 then? If so no problem anyway.

Even without Fig Newtons?

Awww Bob, you've revealed my Kryptonite to the entire t'interweb !

or maybe one date for DACS removal and one for the installation perhaps?

But the DACS is long since out of service isn't it ? Therefore there'll be no record of it, and hence no order raised for its removal.

He may mistakenly think that line will be used, but we expect it will be the second pair in his current one.

The way I read it, he already has a DEL, and there was originally a second line which had a DACS on it .... effectively three lines.

Mind you in hindsight that does seem a tad excessive.

More likely the original pair was DACsed up to give the property two lines, this had been deshared (he has VDSL on the current line) but when this was done the DACS unit was left disconnected, but in situ.


Maybe, possibly, who knows.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

or maybe one date for DACS removal and one for the installation perhaps?

But the DACS is long since out of service isn't it ? Therefore there'll be no record of it, and hence no order raised for its removal.

Ah, I had imagined there would still be a record somehow. But now you've made me think about it, it would only make a difference if I'd ordered broadband on one of those voice lines. As neither exist any more its irrelevant.

In any case, the lines it served were installed into another room, so "removal" is just a matter of cutting off the extra cable that was run round the outside of the building.

Do BT ever want to take the annoying clicking box back when they remove a DACS?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The way I read it, he already has a DEL, and there was originally a second line which had a DACS on it .... effectively three lines.

Mind you in hindsight that does seem a tad excessive.

Three lines - one house line (with broadband) and two office lines (on the second pair with a DACS).

The office lines are no more, but the DACS is still there as, until now, we've done nothing with the second pair since the office lines were ceased.

Sorry to gatecrash an existing thread, but are Openreach engineers allowed to go in to a loft to install a new line? (Thinking about a 2nd line myself)

Edited by kebabselector (Wed 02-Mar-16 13:52:05)

I'm getting confused now.

I read your OP as two separate cables. You can't have two lines on one pair - only on one cable containing at least two pairs (which they all do so far as I know).

I therefore thought your new line will be on the second pair in the cable carrying your existing phone and FTTC.

Are you saying the DACS is on the second pair in a single cable, with the home phone on the first pair?

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 02-Mar-16 13:54:27)

Yes, as long as the engineer determines at the time that it is safe to do so.

Thanks, I'll make sure the area they need to access is boarded and safe should I go down the 2nd line route.

Do BT ever want to take the annoying clicking box back when they remove a DACS?

It still clicks ??? If it does that's good news for the installer, it means the line still gets back to the exchange.

I strongly suspect they don't want that back.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Are you saying the DACS is on the second pair in a single cable, with the home phone on the first pair?

Yes. My apologies for the confusion. There is a two pair cable that enters the house at the main master socket. The first pair currently has voice and VDSL on it. The second pair was extended to another room where two voice lines were installed with a DACS - those two voice lines were ceased some time ago.

My expectation is that the redundant, no longer in service, DACS will be disconnected and the second pair will be used for the new line. My hope is that I can put in a second back box adjacent to the master socket for the first pair, together with a connection between the two and the engineer will pass (or extend) the second pair into it to install the new NTE.

Are you saying the DACS is on the second pair in a single cable, with the home phone on the first pair?

That sounds exactly right.

My hope is that I can put in a second back box adjacent to the master socket for the first pair, together with a connection between the two and the engineer will pass (or extend) the second pair into it to install the new NTE.

It sounds like a doddle ... not near Reading are you ?

Exactly right Bob.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

It still clicks ??? If it does that's good news for the installer, it means the line still gets back to the exchange.

I strongly suspect they don't want that back.

Yes, it does from time to time. At least, I think it does. Perhaps I grew used to it and now just imagine the clicks from time to time.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

It sounds like a doddle ... not near Reading are you ?

No, North Yorkshire. So someone else will get the benefit, sorry

Try plugging a handset into one of the old lines sockets, lifting the handset should may the unit click if it's still live

.... it may even still have a stopped line on it, the channel B1 at least.

Dammit, the 'tickles' always elude me.

No, nothing from the box when I lift the handset. It must have stopped and I never realised.

Although when listening on the handset I do hear a rapid clicking and a bit of white noise - is there a battery inside the DACS that continues to power it?

is there a battery inside the DACS that continues to power it?

No, the remote unit (the bit in your property) took its power from the exchange equipment/line feeding it, 113v rather than the standard 50v I seem to recall.

Must still be connected then, there's definately noise listening to the handset; even if the box itself doesn't click when the handset is lifted.

I hope that doesn't mean there's a fault on that pair though....

Oh well, I'll find out on installation day (or shortly thereafter)!

Must still be connected then, there's definately noise listening to the handset;

Known in the trade as 'blow'.

Oh well, I'll find out on installation day (or shortly thereafter)!

You'll be fine, since we've established it won't be me, it's only me whose luck runs like that ...... you turn up for an install, there's a pair straight back to the cab, and then you find 43v of battery on it.

In reply to a post by kebabselector:

Sorry to gatecrash an existing thread, but are Openreach engineers allowed to go in to a loft to install a new line? (Thinking about a 2nd line myself)

I have used to do it all the time but with new rules ( confined space working ) i have yet to see a loft we can go in to , but still ok to work for hatch.And yep lots think its all got a bit silly.

Thanks for the info - maybe I'll just install the 2nd line downstairs - it's for the kids internet access anyway!

Try reading the following document file...
https://www.openreach.co.uk/flexibledemarcationguide

They show different places where the engineer can or cannot place the cables into your building.

Paul

Thanks Paul, I shall have a look in the morning (site didn't work too well on my iPad)