Switching a SKY phone line back to a BT based one?

Can anyone give advice switching a phone line from SKY to 'BT based' during a house move?

The line is currently with SKY but I'm planning to put the new owner on a Freeola broadband connection so will need to move things back to 'BT'. I'm assuming it's on SKY LLU as BT checks don't recognise the number.

My searches so far have only shown this to be "hard work"
Thanks.

You don't put a new home owner onto anything - that is up to them surely.

As for you, to take the number with you when you move staying with same provider is the usual way, otherwise its switch service to the wanted provider in the old property ahead of the move.

Another option is maybe a voip service that supports porting numbers into them and out of them, If you do move a fair bit leaving the number with a VoIP service might be better in the long run.

It's hard work because you can't do anything about the current Sky line at the new premises. (That's what I read your post to be asking about). It is in contract with the current occupants until they either cancel it or move it to their new address.

In either case you can then order from your chosen supplier using the address, or as MrSaffron suggested get (the person you are talking about) onto Freeola ASAP then do a house move with them using the address. Depending on their T & Cs about house moves and charges.

In reply to a post by b4dger:

Can anyone give advice switching a phone line from SKY to 'BT based' during a house move?

The line is currently with SKY but I'm planning to put the new owner on a Freeola broadband connection so will need to move things back to 'BT'. I'm assuming it's on SKY LLU as BT checks don't recognise the number.

My searches so far have only shown this to be "hard work"
Thanks.

I don�t get why you are setting anything up for the new owners. Leave it to them.

Sorry, I should have been clearer!

I'm helping a relative who's buying a house.
The current home owners have everything with SKY.
This means the current phone number isn't recognised by any 'BT based' checkers etc.

Once the house sale completes I would like to move the existing phone number to Zen (line rental + calls) and Freeola for BB. This is the same setup I use which I'm happy with.

If I put the existing number into Zen's phone signup page I get:
"sadly we are unable to process your order online."

Obviously when the time comes I'll contact them directly, but I thought I would ask to see what the process is and if there were any pitfalls to avoid when making a move like this.

It will be easier and less time consuming to pick one ISP who handles everything, in that case you call the ISP, provide the address (not the phone number), they give you an install date for phone and broadband (usually all done same day). Job done. If there's an install fee they inform you.

You can also do it online with the major providers.

The existing number on the line at the news property, or the phone number your relative currently has?

As far as I know the first is impossible. The second depends on the location and may be impossible, particularly if your relative is not already on Freeola, without switching to Freeola now, as suggested previously.

I don't think I'm getting my query across here...

No numbers are being retained from another address.

People are moving into a house which currently use SKY for their phone services.
As the number isn't recognised by 'BT based' service checkers I'm assuming the line has been moved to SKY equipment? I just wondered what the smoothest way to move to BT based supplies would be.

Usually if it's a house move, then all you have to do is provide the new address rather than just a phone number. This is because normally the previous owner will have course let their current provider know they are moving and the line will cease anyway.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

It will be easier and less time consuming to pick one ISP who handles everything, in that case you call the ISP, provide the address (not the phone number), they give you an install date for phone and broadband (usually all done same day). Job done. If there's an install fee they inform you.

You can also do it online with the major providers.

Thanks - I agree it probably would be easier. But 'we' want the Zen/Freeola setup.
I'll contact Zen to take on the phone once we have a completion date. Freeola are friendly to talk to so I'll also ask for their advice.

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

Usually if it's a house move, then all you have to do is provide the new address rather than just a phone number. This is because normally the previous owner will have course let their current provider know they are moving and the line will cease anyway.

Thanks - I'll do that.
I was just wondering if the 'SKY' element would make things harder for the new provider.

When going this way get phone line sorted then order broadband. It means a gap but is path with less chance of problems

Ok when I moved services with different ISPs we ended up doing the following:
1) Get phone line installed with 1 ISP
2) Once installed, place the order with the different broadband provider, which was installed 10 days later.

Had we done it all with one provider, we would have been connected 10 days earlier.

Definitely possible to do it nonetheless. The ISPs initially pretended they could get it all done at once but that all failed on install date, and we only had a landline.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Fri 09-Feb-18 10:25:56)

In reply to a post by b4dger:

In reply to a post by robertcrowther:

Usually if it's a house move, then all you have to do is provide the new address rather than just a phone number. This is because normally the previous owner will have course let their current provider know they are moving and the line will cease anyway.

Thanks - I'll do that.
I was just wondering if the 'SKY' element would make things harder for the new provider.

No, plenty of people move Sky to Talktalk, Sky to BT, Sky to PlusNet, Sky to EE, Sky to AA, Sky to Zen etc.

Where ISPs struggle with such a basic move, they should be avoided in my opinion.

The only thing that will complicate things is having multiple providers.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Fri 09-Feb-18 10:36:20)

So your relative wants to transfer their existing number, which is with Zen, to the new property? They also want Freeola broadband? Are they with Freeola now?

Even that sounds impossible, for several reasons.

Zen would not be able to take over the line until the current occupiers cease the Sky service. Until that cease is completed a transfer of your relative's number would not be possible, not even an order on that other line. Are you liaising with the current occupants so they order a Cease early, to occur on Completion date? Them ordering a Cease as they move out would not complete for anything up to a fortnight, and Openreach will not accept orders on the line until it has done.

Then, as Openreach move your number your broadband will cease. (I'm not going to mention relatives again, it's unnecessary and a PITA). Whichever ISP you are currently with unless it is Zen.

If broadband is with Zen then the move of both should go smoothly, but you would probably start a new minimum term. If it is currently with Freeola I think you are stuck with moving the number then ordering afresh from Freeola afterwards. Perhaps they would negotiate minimal or zero charges.

All of which begs the question of whether or not the number move is feasible. Even if the properties are on the same exchange it isn't always, as far as I know. On a different exchange I believe it is impossible. It isn't like porting a mobile number.

... Plenty of people move Sky to Talktalk, Sky to BT, Sky to PlusNet, Sky to EE, Sky to AA, Sky to Zen etc.

As I see it, Sky is completely irrelevant to the discussion, and the OP possibly confusing us and any suppliers he talks to by mentioning it. He just needs to talk about the address.

We still don't even know what suppliers are used at the current address. Whether they are the same as required at the new, or different in any way. All we knoiw about the choice ius it is what the OP has. We have no idea what his relative has!

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 09-Feb-18 10:56:47)

In reply to a post by b4dger:

Once the house sale completes I would like to move the existing phone number to Zen (line rental + calls) and Freeola for BB. This is the same setup I use which I'm happy with.

Right. Let's have some clarification .

You want your relative's current number transferred to the new property?

You want their phone and broadband to be with the same as yourself? Zen and Freeola respectively.

What you haven't told us are the most important things. Which provider(s) are your relative's phone and broadband with at the moment?

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 09-Feb-18 11:22:07)

Which provider(s) are your relative's phone and broadband with at the moment?

I was about to post this question myself. Chances are the method is going to have to be home move with current ISP to keep the phone number at the new place. This will likely recontract them for 1 year or 2 years, so this whole thread becomes irrelevant.

That being said, even when I have moved locally my phone number has changed.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by b4dger:

Once the house sale completes I would like to move the existing phone number to Zen (line rental + calls) and Freeola for BB. This is the same setup I use which I'm happy with.

Right. Let's have some clarification .

You want your relative's current number transferred to the new property?

You want their phone and broadband to be with the same as yourself? Zen and Freeola respectively.

What you haven't told us are the most important things. Which provider(s) are your relative's phone and broadband with at the moment?

I appreciate you are trying to help - but I'm not sure this is me...

Please see earlier posts.
No number is being transferred from any existing property.

The house being bought has number 12345 which is currently with SKY.
Number 12345 doesn't appear on any BT based checkers - I'm assuming this is because it's on SKY equipment.

I'm just trying to find the best way to go about taking over the phone line service (using a BT based provider) in this house when the sale completes?!

As others have pointed out I will need to talk to the chosen provider.
I was just wondering if being on SKY equipment it will complicate things as some physical copper my have to be moved?

In reply to a post by b4dger:

No number is being transferred from any existing property.

The house being bought has number 12345 which is currently with SKY.

In reply to a post by b4dger:

Once the house sale completes I would like to move the existing phone number to Zen (line rental + calls) and Freeola for BB.

So you want to keep the number 12345 the new house already has, but move it from Sky to Zen?

I believe there is no chance of that. What's the point anyway?

Getting the physical connection between the house and the exchange moved from the Sky equipment onto BT Wholesale equipment is something that happens thousands of times a day with no user having to do or organise anything. Even the chosen ISP rarely has to do anything. Openreach simply automatically make whatever changes are needed at the exchange for the physical line to route to the correct equipment.

However in this case Zen will not be able to order a takeover of the line until the current owner has ordered a Cease or House Move away of their Sky service and that Cease or transfer has taken place.

When either of those happens the (12345) number is binned as far that house/line is concerned. It either goes with the current owners or set not to be used for quite a while. You will not be able to have it. A new number will be given to the line when Zen take it over.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 09-Feb-18 14:43:12)

I was just looking for any tips and pitfalls to avoid in case someone had some useful info.
Thanks anyway...

Now listen!

I missed another quote out of that post. You don't seem to realise what you are saying.

In reply to a post by b4dger:

No numbers are being retained from another address.

In reply to a post by b4dger:

No number is being transferred from any existing property.

In summary, you don't want to keep the number at the new address. You don't want to transfer your relative's current number to the new address. But

In reply to a post by b4dger:

Once the house sale completes I would like to move the existing phone number to Zen

I asked for clarification and you made it even more confusing. What existing number do you want to move to Zen? Not the one at either address so what on earth are you talking about?

In reply to a post by b4dger:

I was just looking for any tips and pitfalls to avoid in case someone had some useful info.
Thanks anyway...

OK. This is what I'd do:

Forget about what the current residents at the address have, it's irrelevant and more than likely will be ceased when they leave or shortly afterwards (if they have any sense) and guaranteed to complicate your discussions with your providers.

As you want to have line rental and broadband service with different providers, it complicates matters slightly but not excessively.

Contact your chosen line rental provider (Zen) and request a new line at the new address (don't mention anything about the existing service there). Ask for a simultaneous provide code.

Contact your chosen ISP (Freeola) and order a broadband service and supply them the simultaneous provide code.

That's it! Provided that you've given enough notice then both orders should be tied together and provided simultaneously!

Should the move-in date change, I'm lead to believe that if you've ordered a FTTC service then that will be the leading order (Freeola) however if it's ADSL then the line rental order will lead things (Zen) so you'd need to contact the correct provider to rearrange the installation depending upon what broadband service you've chosen.

HTH,


Neil.

Thanks, that's helpful. I'll try that.

Drat! I forgot the SIM provide!

I was more trying to work out what the "I would like to move the existing phone number to Zen" was about, and which number was meant.

It seems to have been a red herring and neither number is required. A new one is fine.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 09-Feb-18 15:48:59)

Doh! It all depends upon how you read it - I hope I've got it right for b4dger. Essentially my take on it is: forget about what they've already got, that's theirs to worry about. Let the ISP/Openreach worry about how to implement the new order (be it on a new pair if the existing circuit hasn't been ceased by the previous owners or on the existing pair if it has been ceased)!

I've had to do a number of simultaneous provides for work and have successfully been able to hold off installations by just contacting the leading provider when there have been access issues to the property.

I've also successfully taken over a line (with broadband) in a property that was installed by the previous occupant (with their consent) but that's not the usual way of doing things.

You have the best solution. The thread title and the transferring of the (unspecified which but Sky implied) number to Zen were major mind-blockers.

It's a bog-standard new address setup with two suppliers. The Sky issue is irrelevant, that number not required, the relative's current number not required, and the current line and broadband supplier(s) apparently different again and irrelevant.

A load of fuss over nothing, with only your SIM provide suggestion of (supreme) relevance.

Thanks for the kind words Bob. Nice to know that something from my day job has actually proved useful!

Now to go polish my halo!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

It's a bog-standard new address setup with two suppliers. The Sky issue is irrelevant...

It's not quite like that actually!

As the current number/line is with SKY I can't use BT based checkers to check availability and with Zen (the only provider I've tested) I can't look at signing up for a new service as both line NUMBER and post code is required. If I change my test to a current BT based number the system lets me proceed.

The thread seems to have a hostile feel to it - I'm sorry if I've been unable to make my query clearer for some people. I think I'll leave it now...

What Bob said is correct. It's just a new simultaneous provide.

Zen's web site (https://www.zen.co.uk/yourhome/phone/) only appears to cater for transferring an existing line to them. You don't want to do that - just ignore the fact that there's already a line there and forget the number that's on the existing line as it'll just confuse matters (that's for the existing owners to worry about).

I'd suggest calling Zen and telling them that you want a new line installed, give them the address and they should be able to confirm that it's possible. If you're placing the order, don't forget to ask for the simultaneous provide code. You'll have to pay for the installation, even if they actually use the existing pair.

Edited by zeb99 (Fri 09-Feb-18 17:32:59)

Just found this in Zen's FAQ:

What if I need a new phone line installed?

Please call our sales team on 01706 902100. One of our representatives will be happy to help you arrange a new phone line to be activated and can advise on costs & timescales.

Just don't mention the existing line and you should be fine.

I swapped from Sky to Plusnet about 3 years ago and took our existing number, it was relatively painless. We went with +Net because others wanted to charge a new line connection fee of up to £150. With the house being bought and transferring to new ownership, I would have thought the easiest way is for the existing owner to cease and the new owners start a new contract? It is the same physical line after all, but will need to be recognised on the BT system as a BT line.

In reply to a post by Discus:

I would have thought the easiest way is for the existing owner to cease and the new owners start a new contract? It is the same physical line after all, but will need to be recognised on the BT system as a BT line.

That's correct. Existing owner ceases, new owner orders a new service (not necessarily in that order). New service provider will find the premises listed in Openreach's database and will be able to order a new line (whether or not it'll be provided over the same copper pair). Openreach will charge an installation fee, whether the provider passes this on or not is up to them. The current phone number is irrelevant.

The best bet is to keep the order process as simple as possible and not to include information that could muddy the waters.

Edited by zeb99 (Fri 09-Feb-18 18:09:14)

Post deleted by freeola

You may want to reply to one of b4dger's posts, not mine so that he/she will be notified! I'm not in the market for another line!

Shame you want calls, otherwise we could do the line and broadband. Otherwise the suggestion of a SIM provide would probably be the best but drop us a Live Chat first as we'd need to do a bit of manual intervention when you place the order. You can still use the checker on https://freeola.com/line-rental to see what Openreach have to say about the new property (or again, get in touch with the address details and we'll be able to give you more info).

Good luck!

Rob

Oops, sorry about that!

In reply to a post by b4dger:

The thread seems to have a hostile feel to it - I'm sorry if I've been unable to make my query clearer for some people. I think I'll leave it now...

Sorry. I didn't mean to come across as hostile. I admit to getting a bit annoyed.

What seems to have happened is you got thoroughly confused by the problems you found that can occur (mainly in the past) with migrating away from Sky LLU, with taking over a line at a "new" property that happens to have Sky on it. They are completely different situations and the migration problems don't arise with what you want to do.

Then you asked about taking over the Sky number, and I went off on a similar wrong track, as that isn't what you want to do, despite specifically saying you did. Once I found out you meant the line, not the number, I got a bit hot under the collar, as it took a lot of effort to get to establish that. As I said - sorry - I shouldn't have.

In the end it comes down to the Zen checker being a bit pathetic, as it should have prompted you to try the address. Which is the only way forward.

If you give Freeola the address, either in PM here, by email, or by phone, they will be able to give you the speed estimates. Which you can do right now if you want, taking the address option here. Don't use the Postcode option.

Zeb99 has your best solution, ordering a "new" line from Zen but importantly making sure they get a Simultaneous Provide (SIM) order number from Openreach. Then talk to Freeola about the broadband order and make sure they quote that SIM order number to Openreach. It looks as if their computer system doesn't cater for that, (few ISPs' online systems do), but they can handle it manually.

That way, with luck, it all happens on the day your relative moves in. As long as the current occupant has placed a cease order on the line to activate on that day. As I said earlier. If they only cancel their Sky service on that day then neither Zen nor Freeola will be able to do anything until the line is released. Up to a fortnight later.

The worst that happens is the line is tied up for that fortnight due to the current occupants, and the SIM order fails so there is a gap between the phone line being connected for your relative and Freeola getting the broadband connected.

Hoping all goes well - Bob.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 09-Feb-18 22:17:28)

Just to update my progress on this...

We now have a completion date for the house move.
Contacted Zen for the new line and calls package - asked for a 'Simultaneous Provide' as advised.

Zen have told me this isn't possible if I'm having BB with another provider!
I've placed my line order - waiting to hear about dates (within 48 hours) and it looks as if I'll have to wait until the line is up and running before ordering BB which is a shame.

If anyone has any helpful advice - fire away...
Thanks.

Ask them for a Linked Order Reference Number (LORN)...

If they give you that then if your broadband provider will accept and use it, that is how the orders are linked.

i.e. you don't order a Sim Provide as such, but use the LORN to link to orders together.

NOTE: Even when everyone plays ball this has a tendency to fail, so you still get the gap.

I've just been speaking to Freeola and Zen again. Freeola have shown me screenshots of the system they use where they would have the option to request a SIM/SIM2.
Speaking to Zen and being passed up the line for an explanation.
It's not that they can't do it, just that they've experienced so many problems in the past they've chosen not to. If the phone order has a problem and has to be started again, apparently the new SIM doesn't get passed on and it all goes pear-shaped. Which I can believe. So frustrating that in 2018 anything to do with phone and BB is so painful to manage.

Is it worth me requesting a LORN or is it likely they won't provide that for the same reasons?

Thanks for your help.

Toss a coin time...

Ofcom tends to focus on pure bundles due to that being the majority of market

It'll be a SIM2 now.

A LORN is essentially the SIM2 reference and I suspect their response will be the same, as it is the same thing.

Matt

In reply to a post by b4dger:

So frustrating that in 2018 anything to do with phone and BB is so painful to manage.

With electricity and gas, you just move in and start using the stuff. The billing catches up later.

It shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to make the comms world have some fallback position that works in a similar way. A limited "functional" service perhaps, and not always possible, but *something*.

It is easy with gas/electric as nothing changes in the provision. The person leaving takes a reading and the person moving in takes a reading and as long as the 2 pretty much match then no problem - it is just a billing issue.

With broadband there is a logical route through to the ISP that has to be changed. You would have to have Openreach becoming an ISP as with LLU no other level would be able to do it.

Glad it's not just me WWWombat.

At the very least you would assume that with today's tech the systems could allow for a smooth change over!

The current provider is ceasing the service on the 19th. Zen tell me the new phone service (taking over an existing line from previous house owner) will be available on the 23rd - could be worse but could be faster. Then I'll have to sign up for BB separately with another delay as apparently the current BT processes can't be trusted...

Sorry for the frustration b4dger. We do a fair few linked orders/SIM2. SIM2 replace SIM provides with the promise of a lot lower failure rate and I have to say that we see very few fail. In fact the last few failures have been due to lack of free ports in FTTC cabinets. ADSL with line rental seem to work quite well.

Just to update my new line situation.
The new line and phone service went live on Friday 23rd as promised by Zen.

As expected the number doesn't show in BT powered checkers yet.
I've asked Freeola if they can manually order broadband for me but they've replied saying it's best to wait until it shows in the BT database as manual orders in their experience often take longer.

Can anyone say how long it's likely to be for this new number to appear in BT's systems so that I can place a BB order?
Thanks.

Generally around 24 hours after the order completes fully.

Things can sometimes get stuck.

Is http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.welcome showing fixed rate products only out of interest? or number not recognised.

Matt

It wasn't recognising the number - but I've just checked and it's now showing details.
But as you mention - it is currently only showing fixed rate (1 Mbps) products?!

At least it looks like I can place my order now though

You might want to wait as often they'll fail until it has fully updated.

Should be just a few more hours to update fully and then any order will go through without any further delay.

Matt

Thanks - I was wondering about that...

Freeola's system has moved on but looks stuck 'checking details' - so I think I'll order in the morning in case things update.

The BT checker did update overnight and went to more normal figures - I then placed a successful order!

Thanks to 'Freeola Rob' for his help behind the scenes with some extra bits I needed

Glad we got there in the end! Happy to help.

Rob