House has LAN, but how to get FTP into it?

We've moved into a house that seems to have a LAN network installed. (It was a complete rebuild about 6 years ago and has a lot of mod cons). Yesterday Open Reach finally fitted our FTP Broadband. It seems to me that the BT hub could somehow feed its signal into the LAN but I don't have the technical knowledge to do what is necessary. I did try cabling the BT hub into the socket in the wall in the room where it sits (where fibre enters the house) and then cabling my PC (in a room on the other side of the house) into a LAN socket there but the PC didn't see anything. Does a LAN circuit need power? Could there be the power to it is hidden away somewhere in the house and needs switching on? Any help and hints greatly appreciated! Thanks.

John

Where do all the LAN sockets run back to ? A cupboard under the stairs maybe ?

Ah, that is the question! I don't know, I haven't seen anything looking like that. I will go and have a detailed hunt! Thanks.

John

Each cable needs to run from a device such as a TV or a desktop PC to a port on a switch.

The switch port could be one of the four switch ports that many routers have.

If a separate switch is used then one of the ports on the switch needs to connect to the router in order for devices attached to the other ports to have internet access.

The WAN port of the BT Hub should connect using an ethernet cable to the ONT that the BT engineer fitted, as well as one from a BT Hub LAN port to the pre-existing wall socket.

Is that how you have it set up?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The WAN port of the BT Hub should connect using an ethernet cable to the ONT that the BT engineer fitted, as well as one from a BT Hub LAN port to the pre-existing wall socket.

Is that how you have it set up?

The WAN port of the BT hub is connected to the white box where they brought the fibre into the house. There are no cables connected to the four ethernet out sockets of the BT hub.

I have just found on a high shelf in the loft 8 ethernet tails labelled to match the rooms in which there are RJ45 sockets. This loft area is above the study where the fibre comes into the house. I assume I now need to buy a switch*, connect all the tails to it, then find someone who can route a cable from the BT hub up through the ceiling to feed this switch. Internet will then be available on all the RJ45 sockets. Does that sound correct?

* Like this one: Netgear GS108 - 8 Port Unmanaged Gigabit Switch

It depends really ... do you need something connected on each ethernet port ?

Is there a tail that feeds to near the ONT ? You could patch the feed from the ONT up to the loft ... site the router there, and then feed three LAN ports from the router.

In reply to a post by Shiner_UK:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I have just found on a high shelf in the loft 8 ethernet tails labelled to match the rooms in which there are RJ45 sockets. This loft area is above the study where the fibre comes into the house. I assume I now need to buy a switch*, connect all the tails to it, then find someone who can route a cable from the BT hub up through the ceiling to feed this switch. Internet will then be available on all the RJ45 sockets. Does that sound correct?

That is correct. Use a CAT5e ethernet cable or cat6 but that might be overkill for your needs.
As for the switch I can't comment on as I don't have knowledge of them.

(You have a PM - flashing envelope in the top menu)

I like Zarjaz's idea.

If you want to use wifi for phones and tablets, then if the Hub being in the loft doesn't give good coverage you could get a WAP, (or use any previous router you have and use it as one by turning off its DHCP), wherever in the living spaces it works well, connected to a wall socket/tail.

Some basics first, sorry if this is too basic...Oh BTW I should have refreshed the page, I see this has already been covered.

You can't parallel up LAN connections like you can telephone extensions, each cable runs from one location to another. In an office LAN there'll be a "central" patch panel where all the runs come together. This may be in a locked cabinet somewhere. In our B&Q you can see it on the wall near the checkouts.

In a domestic install a patch panel is usually OTT, so it is more likely that you'll have a multiway wallplate somewhere (or in your case tails running out of a wall). The trick will be finding where the cables go. If you don't have one of these https://cpc.farnell.com/tenma/72-8500/toneprobe-set/... then it may come down to working out whether the cables go up or down, cables in a loft space tend to be fairly visible, under floorboards not so much.

A small switch looks a lot like a router, and shouldn't be totally hidden away, for clarification I mean it shouldn't be hidden because it is electronic equipment that needs power, not just a passive junction, and at some point it probably will fail so loft space: OK, under floor-boards: not such a good idea.

Edited by obroad (Fri 20-Mar-20 15:21:13)

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

It depends really ... do you need something connected on each ethernet port ?

Is there a tail that feeds to near the ONT ? You could patch the feed from the ONT up to the loft ... site the router there, and then feed three LAN ports from the router.

Many thanks. Pause for thought here....before I fall into the trap of unintended consequences!

There's just two of us in the house and we both use laptops, so I guess the setup left by the Open Reach chap is fine, i.e. wifi.

The truth is that I can't imagine what we might plug in to the RG45 sockets in the three bedrooms and four downstairs rooms except for the room where my PC is (in a home recording studio) where I would like maximum speed. Unfortunately, it's at the opposite end of the ground floor of the house and I don't want an ugly cable running all the way over there, so ideally I'd like to have it plugged in to the RJ45 socket in the room, as that will be faster, and neater. So I guess I'm trying to have the best of both worlds: good wifi coverage but one PC cabled up for maximum speed.

Can I achieve that by passing a cable from one the four ethernet sockets in the back of the BT fibre hub up into the loft to send signal to a switch in which the eight RJ45 tails are plugged, leaving the wifi from the BT hub working as it is now?

If you get one of these, (and assuming the tails in the loft are long enough), you can set up a direct ethernet link between the wall socket where your Hub is and the room you want the ethernet connection.

Ethernet connections have no effect at all on the wifi, other than the obvious one of sharing the internet connection. On FTTP that should not be a problem .

Edit: If the tails aren't long enough, get two and a short ethernet cable to connect them.

I'm just wondering however about the ethernet speed and what level of cable the house has, and also the total cable length, as standard CAT 5 100Mbps stuff has a theoretical maximum run of 100 metres. A powered switch in the loft of course creates two runs of that length.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 20-Mar-20 18:23:08)

Shiner_UK

Follow Roberto's mail if you only need it in one location. This is by far the easiest, cheapest and sensible thing to do, leaves no electronics to be looked after or go wrong. Only if you want Ethernet in more than one location do you need a switch (plus power in the loft, etc) .

Also takes the risk of overheating in the summer away!

In reply to a post by Shiner_UK:

The truth is that I can't imagine what we might plug in to the RG45 sockets in the three bedrooms and four downstairs rooms except for the room where my PC is

TVs with Netflix, desktop PCs all benefit from a wired connection - and will leave the airwaves clear for other devices on wifi. Being able to plug in another wireless access point, to give really good wifi coverage in a room and the adjacent rooms, is also useful.

Unfortunately, it's at the opposite end of the ground floor of the house and I don't want an ugly cable running all the way over there, so ideally I'd like to have it plugged in to the RJ45 socket in the room, as that will be faster, and neater. So I guess I'm trying to have the best of both worlds: good wifi coverage but one PC cabled up for maximum speed.

Can I achieve that by passing a cable from one the four ethernet sockets in the back of the BT fibre hub up into the loft to send signal to a switch in which the eight RJ45 tails are plugged, leaving the wifi from the BT hub working as it is now?

Yes.

If there is a power socket in the attic, then you can use any old 8-port ethernet switch. If getting power to the switch is difficult, then I'd use something like the Netgear GS108Tv2 which can be powered via PoE (i.e. the CAT5 cable can carry both the network signal and the power). You'll also need an 802.3af power injector at the other end of the cable.

If you really only want one wired connection, to the PC in the studio, then you can just get an RJ45-RJ45 coupler for under £2. In the attic, use it to join the cable which runs to the ONT location to the cable which runs to the studio.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

If you get one of these, (and assuming the tails in the loft are long enough), you can set up a direct ethernet link between the wall socket where your Hub is and the room you want the ethernet connection.....

Yes, I see, thanks. That would do the trick. I just have to find someone to run a cable neatly up through the study ceiling and into the loft.

You said the cables were already there between the wall sockets and the labelled tails? My suggestion uses that wiring.

But there needs to be a cable from the BT hub in the study up into the loft above to either feed (1) a switch box so all 8 tails can be fed, benefiting all eight rooms for possible future use, or (2) just the tail that belongs to the home studio/PC room without a switch box via a F/F coupler. That's what I'm understanding. I've learned a lot today, many thanks everyone!

EDIT: An idiot question perhaps, (or a statement of what is being suggested here and I am too thick to understand it...) What would happen if I connected a cable from one of the BT hub's four ethernet outputs to the RG45 socket nearby in the room it is in, then connected the RG45 tail in the loft coming from that room's socket to the tail of the cable in the same bunch (using a F/F connector) that goes from the loft to the RG45 socket in the studio?

You're not being thick. Just talking to several people here who take a lot of stuff for granted as we've been talking this sort of stuff for decades . Don't worry, nobody will think anything bad about you.

Your non-idiot edited in question there is what I and Kitcat are recommending. Quick, easy, cheap, no mains or any other power supply needed. In effect it just creates a single ethernet link from the hub to the socket in the studio. Just as if you ran a cable along the skirting boards.

Even if you want to connect a smart TV, the wifi will probably work perfectly well. I know several that do, just local to me. At the worst, or if we get the "internet of things" in a while, you can put a powered switch up in the loft then. But there are other solutions when that arises, with mesh wifi systems that Sky, BT and others are selling already to drive smart TVs all over the house.

The electronics for that are improving daily too. What is good today will be out of date next year.

For most domestic uses cabled connections are dying out. Your studio work being "non-domestic" .

PS: For the future, are you sure there isn't a mains power supply somewhere near those tails in the loft? I think there may well be, if they were actually used.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 20-Mar-20 20:53:12)

With regards to WiFi vs Cables it isn't clear cut. It looks as if available internet speeds may exceed the speed you can get over a realistic WiFi connection, and even without that some tasks in a home need higher performance, for example streaming HD content from one PVR to another needs cable. Also some buildings just attenuate like crazy.

My post was discussing the OP's specific requirements and installation . Not a general treatise on WiFi v ethernet.

I even pointed out that the immediate solution didn't rule out the more comprehensive ethernet one later, and also that WiFi technology is improving apace.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I even pointed out that the immediate solution didn't rule out the more comprehensive ethernet one later, and also that WiFi technology is improving apace.

WiFi 5 can in many houses easily handle broadband of 200 Mbps, and WiFi 6 is coming down in price, which will help coverage even more.

In reply to a post by kitcat:

Also takes the risk of overheating in the summer away!

I am not sure there is much risk I live in Kent and have had routers etc in my loft for 15 years without problems.

Well, I obtained a female/female coupler and successfully connected my BT hub via the house LAN to my PC in the room on the other side of the house.

Unexpected results:
Speed per fast.com via:
LAN connection: 92 Mbps
Wifi: 100/110

I haven't the time or inclination to figure out why that might be the case, and Googling "Why is wifi faster than my LAN?" showed that it is rabbit hole that I do not wish to disappear down!

Anyway, thanks for all the help here, I really appreciate it.

Hi,

I think your ethernet port might only be 10/100 whereas your wireless might be 5 GHz which can be up to 1 GB/sec. This might be why your wireless is faster than your ethernet....

HTH,

In reply to a post by Shiner_UK:

Unexpected results:
Speed per fast.com via:
LAN connection: 92 Mbps
Wifi: 100/110

It could just be one unconnected pin. It may be as simple as re-plugging into the coupler, or it may be necessary to repunch one of the RJ45 connectors.

Explanation: CAT5 cable has four copper pairs. For a 1G connection, all four pairs are used concurrently (send and receive, in both directions)

But in the older 100M and 10M ethernet standards, only two pairs were used: one for transmit, one for receive. Hence you can get situations where if you have a bad connection, which breaks one of the connections, it will work at 100M but not at 1G. You can also get this if you use an old "crossover" cable instead of straight-through.

Best tool for diagnosing this is an CAT5 tester:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004BVIIAS/

That's the one I bought, and will set you back the princely sum of £2.74 if you can wait for it to arrive from China. You'll probably pay more for the battery

It separates into two halves, one for each end of the cable, and you watch the LEDs to check for broken or crossed wires.

PC Network interface properties should report whether its connected at 100 Mbps or 1000 Mbps.

For now if working I'd put up with it for a few weeks, and get a cable tester to check the cables

They are 1GB according to this BT page:
https://www.bt.com/help/broadband/learn-about-the-po...

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Mar-20 18:11:36)

Hi,

I was talking about the ethernet port on your device that was doing the testing. That might be only 100Mb/sec...On my laptop I have an on-board 10/100Mb/sec ethernet port and if I test on there then I get < 100Mb/sec but it test from a 1Gb/sec USB3.0 Ethernet adapter then I get > 100 Mb/sec.

HTH,