Smart Hub 2

I am in the process of moving to BT's Fibre 1 product. They will supply a Smart Hub 2.
Is this router any good?. Will I be able to access line stats?
If I want to use another router will I be able to lookup the connection settings, password and configuration or will this be hidden out of sight without unlocking it as has happened in the past.

Yes they are OK. Yes, you’ll see line stats if on VDSL/ADSL.

Connection details are simple.

In reply to a post by jaba:

I am in the process of moving to BT's Fibre 1 product. They will supply a Smart Hub 2.

Normally they do, but if they don't you can ask for one, normally this just costs £9.99 postage, BT owns the router so if or when you leave BT you may / will have to send it back to them.

In reply to a post by jaba:

Is this router any good?. Will I be able to access line stats?

Well I had a few issues with the first Smart Hub, but I have heard the second one is a lot better, I have one still in its box, I know with the first one you could see some line stats, so I assume the second version will be the same.

In reply to a post by jaba:

If I want to use another router will I be able to lookup the connection settings, password and configuration or will this be hidden out of sight without unlocking it as has happened in the past.

Yes, I use my own router, but I keep the Smart Hub 2 in case I have issues with our connection and BT wants it connected to run tests.

Getting the login info is easy to find.
I use the following:
name: [email protected]
pass: (leave blank)

You can find this all over the BT Forums.

Paul

As already mentioned line stats are there, data rate, max rate, line atten, signal atten, SNR ...

In addition there is, at least on the business version, an Event Log containing thousands of events since the last reset. I have seen 800 or so pages with 25 events on each! It can be filtered by type!

Thanks all. It seems that I will be able to get into the router to see the required info.
I just have to hope that the lockdown does not hold things up should there be problems on the day of the switch..

Are you going from ADSL to self install VDSL (FTTC) on the day ?

If so you *should* get a call from the engineer before their work commences.

Chuck the new router on, and await the ‘blue light’

Are you with BT for ADSL ? Then you could just put the new router on as soon as it arrives , the rest will go automatically.

Do you have a faceplate filter, or maybe just a single NTE ? You might as well have it set up right and save later hassles.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Are you going from ADSL to self install VDSL (FTTC) on the day ?

Yes thats the plan ADSL to VDSL

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Are you with BT for ADSL ? Then you could just put the new router on as soon as it arrives , the rest will go automatically.

No not with BT a BTW reseller. So your idea of preinstalling the new router would be possible I suppose by switching logins. I will think about that while I am waiting for V day.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Do you have a faceplate filter, or maybe just a single NTE ? You might as well have it set up right and save later hassles.

Yes I have a faceplate filter in place already, so no problems

I am now a bit mystified by what is happening with the charges made. I am moving to BT who are not making any charges at all for migration ADSL - VDSL or activation. But my current provider have just made a Cease charge of £32.

Is this cease charge right ? As I am moving from one BTW provider to BT itself which presumably is a notional BTW reseller as well.

My current ISP explains the charge as follows;
"The cease notice is just what we received from BT Wholesale as the service is leaving them and going to another provider. Whilst that service with us is ceasing, it would be re-start by another provider based on the order they've placed."

I read on this forum posts all the time from people who change ISP for one reason or another but they don't seem to mention often the various charges involved. And the word cease is a bit ambiguous when what is really happening is a cease and reprovide.

I am really happy to pay any charges of course but it seems very unclear before placing an order what you will have to pay and to whom. Perhaps this is an area OFCOM could take on so that we would know in advance of placing an order what the total one off charges would be to inform the financial decision.

Should be outlined in the existing providers terms and conditions.

There is no 'cease' charge levied by the big providers where people are migrating.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Should be outlined in the existing providers terms and conditions.

There is no 'cease' charge levied by the big providers where people are migrating.

Unfortunately, the terms and conditions can be sufficiently vague to give little warning of whether a cease charge will be be imposed.

In my case my FTTP service was out of contract, and I took out a new contract with a different provider for a rather better price. Usual practice is for this to be treated as a migration, but my soon to be former provider insisted on treating it as a cease, and charging for the privilege ... not happy, but I couldn't budge them.

Fortunately, the new provider's price still offered a cheaper annual cost, so I came out ahead. The catch is that with a cease, it can take several days for Openreach to make the switch to the new provider, leaving you internetless in the meantime. Fortunately again, my new provider (Aquiss) was very hot off the mark and got me up and running within 15 hrs ... happy!

Which ISP was it?

This sort of thing happened a few times years ago, possibly even before FTTC. It was basically a misunderstanding by the losing ISP. It might even have been Plusnet.

They always get a cease notification when you leave, but the charge to them mentioned in it is only a potential one charged by Openreach to the losing wholesale provider and passed down the chain.

AIUI unless it is genuinely a change of backhaul provider the charge is not made by Openreach so you should not be charged. Some providers never do charge it anyway.

When you placed your migration order, did your old ISP notify you of this charge? They are supposed to. Ofcom Rules. (Now in GC7 I think, not the previous GC22).

You may as well tell us which ISP it was . Someone may have had and solved the same problem.

Lets be clear here this is a charge from the losing provider for the cease. They invoiced me as soon as they received notification from BT. It is due for payment on May 9th which will be before I actually transfer. Its a relatively small but excellent ISP, Uno.
They say that it is what they are charged by BTW.

If Roberto says they should not be making this charge because it's a cost they never see then I would need a few more opinions on this before challenging.

Going back to my earlier point about the lack of certainty over the one off charges made when changing ISP I think there might be a case for OFCOM to take a position and rule on this so that we, the punters, know exactly what we will have to pay to BOTH ISPs before we commit to an order.
I have only made one ISP change in 16 years so I have little experience in this minefield.

Edited by jaba (Tue 28-Apr-20 23:23:01)

Indeed.
Plusnet charged a £30 cease fee until late 2018.

I think it's a BT Wholesale charge that Plusnet decided to absorb but I believe they still charge the ISP it under certain circumstances.

Edited by j0hn83 (Wed 29-Apr-20 10:56:22)

Uno quite clearly state their cease fees on their web site: https://www.uno.uk/price-list/

I don't think you have any grounds to challenge them on it.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Plusnet charged a £30 cease fee until late 2018.

For outbound migrations?

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Indeed.
Plusnet charged a £30 cease fee until late 2018.

I think it's a BT Wholesale charge that Plusnet decided to absorb but I believe they still charge the ISP it under certain circumstances.

I know back end of 2016 when we moved everything over to FTTP and the copper line was ceased we were charged £35, but due to not telling us about this charge and also still having an exec complaint open at the time BT removed the charged.

Paul

Smart Hub2 has been delivered today for activation on Tuesday so I will use that for the initial connecting and testing. But I want eventually to use my existing router which has Adsl and Vdsl modems. It should autoconnect but if it doesn't I can see the following settings which I will need to input. What should they be for VDSL?
1. VC-Based or LLC based
2. PPOa or PPoE
3. ATM or PTM
I am assuming the second options are the ones to use.
4. Use VLANID - this is off in the current setup
There is no password in the smarthub so I assume only the standard userid is needed.

It will do it all automatically, fret not.

1. Neither (that's ATM/ADSL only)
2. PPPoE
3. PTM
4. VLAN:
802.1q: 101
802.1p: 1

That's only required for your own modem/router.

You won't need to change a thing on the BT Smart Hub. They are pre configured to work on any BT ADSL/VDSL2 line.

Thanks for the detail. Only two days to go.

FTTC day.....Openreach engineer Jacob texted at 0906 saying he was on my case. He texted again at 0925 saying job done and indeed it was the Smarthub had already turned blue and I was already online again . So well done OR and BT.
What did not go so well was that the session with my losing ISP UNO was cut at midnight leaving me waiting with no connection until OR switched me over the next day.
I imagined that I would still have internet until OR had moved me over to the fibre connection.This was disappointing even though I was fortunate that OR switched me over before 0930 they could have done it much later in the day which would have been frustrating.
Is this delay normal. Why cut the connection at midnight before the new connection is assured?

I would imagine UNO switched off their end. I find usually folk are connected on their previous service until the switch goes ahead.

Glad its all worked out well in the end.

It's not good when ISPs do this. They really shouldn't disable the account until the migration has taken place - especially as BT might have had to delay the job in which case the customer would stay with the losing ISP until it could be undertaken.

In reply to a post by ian72:

It's not good when ISPs do this. They really shouldn't disable the account until the migration has taken place - especially as BT might have had to delay the job in which case the customer would stay with the losing ISP until it could be undertaken.

Completely agree.

Further update: all still going well after this seamless (almost) switch to fibre in a time of corona.
After 3 days of syncing at 55000Mbps I decided to connect my Netgear DGND3700 router which has ADSL and VDSL modems with separated independent 2.4 and 5g channels and my reserved addresses configured. The switchover worked without any delay and I have disconnected the Smart Hub until any time that it is needed for line fault finding in the future - hopefully never......
,

Further further update.......
I have been using my btinternet email address as a mail server to use POP to collect emails along with using TSOHost as well (like Roberto) with a view to switching off TSOHost eventually.
Whilst this does work perfectly with BT it is unusable because of the over sensitive junkmail filters employed at BT. There appears to be no way to reduce the sensitivity and it is removing several false positives every day entailing regular logins to see what is being junked.
This is not a sustainable modus operandi so I have switched of forwarding to BT so that all my mail can be accessed without fear of missing some vital urgent message.

How do others cope with this apart from whitelisting ?

Edited by jaba (Wed 10-Jun-20 12:25:05)

If you're Forwarding messages from your TSOhost to your BT, then the BT server will see those messages as coming FROM TSOhost. Not as coming From the original senders.
If you're whitelisting the TSOhost address within your BT setup, that's really the best you can do in that situation.

Really need to get away from anything going through the TSOhost address.

If a mail server is relaying emails you need to have Sender Rewriting Scheme (SRS) setup on the relaying server or else you can run into issues.

Paul

OP actually said he was using BT to POP from TSOhost, so no rewriting or forwarding required!!

In reply to a post by jaba:

How do others cope with this apart from whitelisting ?

Why are you moving from TSO to BT ? Yes the BT email is free, but if you ever move ISP you will have to go through this pain again.

If TSO is a problem, perhaps look to an alternative email host, rather than moving to your ISP for email?

In reply to a post by jchamier:

OP actually said he was using BT to POP from TSOhost, so no rewriting or forwarding required!!

OH, my bad, I thought I read some place about setting up a mail server to relay, maybe I got mixed up with another topic.

Paul

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by jaba:

How do others cope with this apart from whitelisting ?

Why are you moving from TSO to BT ? Yes the BT email is free, but if you ever move ISP you will have to go through this pain again.

If TSO is a problem, perhaps look to an alternative email host, rather than moving to your ISP for email?

Well I am not leaving TSO just using BT to have two mail server sources for different users to POP from.
My post is essentially a rant (muted) about the absence of any control over spam classification when using BT. I suppose they consider that non business accounts need less controls and configuration to confuse their non tech clientele.
To clarify, all my mail is sent first to gmail where it is filtered for spam, archived there and forwarded to TSO and BT for POP download. So the mail forwarded to BT is already spam filtered by gmail's very effective spam filtering.

This spam issue was a problem with my previous ISP as well. There was no turn off option and any spam, positive or not was refused and bounced back undeliverable. So I was unable to use their mail service as well. TSOHost continue to provide a good service though as did Spamcop who I used before for 15 years.

There are of course two main sorts of spam; the unwanted information and marketing, and the malicious
I suspect that ISPs strong filtering is to stop them getting blacklisted as sources of spam.
I will stop rambling now before my post turns into spam too...............

Best thing to do is avoid forwarding wherever possible. Forwarded mail is more likely to be marked as spam. For own domains this usually means spending a little money, which in my opinion is worth it for something as important as email.

In reply to a post by jaba:

Further further update.......
I have been using my btinternet email address as a mail server to use POP to collect emails along with using TSOHost as well (like Roberto) with a view to switching off TSOHost eventually.

That seems a very strange thing to do.

If you drop Tsohost all your contacts will have to change your address that they send to, and you will have to change all shop and utility account settings. You defeat the whole object of ISP-independent email, and have to do it all again of you move to another ISP later. (As someone else just posted).

There is noting to stop you simply accessing Tsohost mail servers directly from your BT connection.

In some circumstances a change of the port numbers in your email client might be needed, but that's all and possibly need changing anyway of you are not on the latest SSL settings on the Tsohost servers.

Do you want or need a BT internet address?

Your post part-quoted below didn't exist when I made my previous one.

In reply to a post by jaba:

To clarify, all my mail is sent first to gmail where it is filtered for spam, archived there and forwarded to TSO and BT for POP download. So the mail forwarded to BT is already spam filtered by gmail's very effective spam filtering.

Do you mean you in fact use gmail email addresses? Surely that's the only way it gets there first?

In reply to a post by jaba:

To clarify, all my mail is sent first to gmail where it is filtered for spam, archived there and forwarded to TSO and BT for POP download. So the mail forwarded to BT is already spam filtered by gmail's very effective spam filtering.

Why not simplify, remove TSO and BT from the setup, and POP your mail directly from Gmail ?

Thanks for trying to suggest better ways. If only it were that simple.
The idea of having your own domains and permanent email addresses is the portability from current ISP to next ISP.
Gmail used with pop is really only suitable for a couple of non gmail addresses and you still need a smtp server to log into to send through.
For us with several domains , many email addresses several users pop-ing and from various locations including abroad it is just not worth trying, would be a nightmare to manage and I would still need TSO for an smtp service. The TSO service works well, all domains have a spf record to ensure authorisation at the receiving and forwarding stages.

Accordingly I switched off using BT yesterday by deleting the forwarding to BT in gmail. But the next day I discovered that gmail had switched off TSO forwarding too then having fixed that gmail then had switched off archive the messages after forwarding......Grr. This has been a definite case of if its not broken don't fix it.

I have five domains using email, four on Tsohost and one on Ionos. (Ex 1and1).

With literally hundreds of aliases.

I also used to have multiple users on the same system.

It all works/ed seamlessly through Thunderbird, and these days with secondary access using Bluemail on Android and iPad.

I ditched POP3 years ago in favour of IMAP.

I also have a few gmail addresses but run those completely separately though as you clearly know integration is possible. Too messy.

As RobertoS says use IMAP instead of POP with Gmail.
You will also find that Gmail has an SMTP server.

Which email client do you use?

SMTP and POP settings here
https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7126229?hl=en