Is there a problem with my regraded to 80/20?

I regraded from 40/10 to 80/20 on the 4th June. I was told 57.8 speed which is what the BB Availability site gave as the lower speed as well (max speed was a silly 78). But since then my IP Profile has been unchanged on 49.3 and speeds on the Performance Test Results have been around 24-47. Before regrade I was getting 36-7. Is this normal and the speed/IP Profile will increases or is there a problem which needs me to chase up my IPP?

I’ve found what the problem is but not the solution! For some bazar reason my ISP moved me. In response to regrading me to 80/20 they only managed onto 50/20. Now I have to get them to sort it out again, they had originally moved me from 40/10 onto, yes, 40/10 again. Then I was meant to be moved onto the right package, but…

A couple or so of ISPs do that. It helps their advertised speed figures demanded by the ASA. If you get 60Mbps on the 80Mbps product that lowers their average for that one, but the full 55Mbps (sync) on the 55/10 product helps their average for that.

The fact that the customer may be upgrading for faster upstream is ignored.

That's not exactly very genuine thing to do now is it, sounds like a provider to avoid.

Is there a cost difference between 55/20 and 80/20?

You say teh BT checker gives 58 to 78 as te range , more importantly what does your modem say? Actual, Max Achievable, Attenuation and SNR/Margin (or similar)?

They have said to me “The current speeds we are measuring for this line are 50mbps download and 20mbps upload”. When ordering I was quoted a download speed of 57.6 which I have found is the BT Broadband Availability low rate. I have no idea if/what cost difference there might be between 50 and 70. I have never been supplied with any consumer information on expected speeds etc. which I need to chase them up about (as well)
The information from my router is
Downstream Upstream
TCM(Trellis Coded Modulation) On On
SNR Margin 6.4 dB 6.3 dB
Line Attenuation 10.4 dB 16.4 dB
Path Mode FastPath FastPath
Interleave Depth 1 1
Data Rate 50862 kbps 20000 kbps
Max Rate 65152 kbps 22081 kbps
Power 6.1 dbm 6.2 dbm
INP 0.8 symbols 1.1 symbols
INP-SHINE - -
INP-REIN - -
CRC 181 211


Downstream Upstream
TCM(Trellis Coded Modulation) On On
SNR Margin 6.4 dB 6.3 dB
Line Attenuation 10.4 dB 16.4 dB
Path Mode FastPath FastPath
Interleave Depth 1 1
Data Rate 50862 kbps 20000 kbps
Max Rate 65152 kbps 22081 kbps
Power 6.1 dbm 6.2 dbm
INP 0.8 symbols 1.1 symbols
INP-SHINE - -
INP-REIN - -
CRC 181 211

On the face of it those stats don't suggest you are being limited by being on the 55/20 product - the upstream is maxing out and the downstream is not. It suggests that even if you were on the 80/20 product you would still be getting the same speeds unless the target SNR was lowered. Are you sure you are even on the 55/20 product as from the stats you could well be already on the 80/20?

55/20 does not exist, there is 55/10

Of course if an ISP uses its own throttling it could create a 55/20 service but at Openreach level its

40/2
40/10
55/10
80/20

Given there is no Openreach 55/20 product it looks like line is hitting the maximum download that it can manage on the 80/20 service i.e. only 20 Mbps upload FTTC product.

NOTE: Its possible that G.INP may kick in in a couple of weeks and speeds rise a bit more.

If there is a problem where is it likely to be? The BT Availability results are
eatured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Handback
Threshold(Mbps) WBC FTTC Availability Date WBC SOGEA Availability Date Left in Jumper
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 79.9 57.6 20 19 52.6 Available Available --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 78.6 55 20 18.1 48.5 Available Available --
Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Range (Mbps) Availability Date FTTP Install Process
FTTP on Demand 330 30 -- Available --
ADSL Products Downstream Line Rate (Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Range(Mbps) ADSL Availability Date WBC SOADSL Availability Date Left in Jumper
WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 2.5 -- 1.5 to 4 Available Available --
WBC ADSL2+ Annex M Up to 2.5 Up to 0.5 1.5 to 4 Available Available --
ADSL Max Up to 1 -- 1 to 3.5 Available Available --
WBC Fixed Rate 1 -- -- Available Available --
Fixed Rate 1 -- -- Available -- --
Observed Speeds VDSL
Max Observed Downstream Speed 50.92
Max Observed Upstream Speed 20
Observed Date 2020-06-05
Other Offerings Availability Date
VDSL Multicast Available
ADSL Multicast Available
Premise Environment Status
Bridge Tap N
VRI --
NTE FacePlate --
Last Test Date --

Sorry, was trying to check the packages and failed - does definitely look like they are on the right service then and there is nothing for the ISP to change in that respect.

The estimates from the wholesale checker can be wrong at times, and may be too optimistic in your case.

I was only referring to the OPs post where he referred to 50/20 and I knew 50 should be 55!

I can see one oddity that needs considering:

Downstream attenuation of 10.4 dB and only seeing 50Mbps - or thereabouts.

At 10.4dB even with a lot of cross talk, I would still expect to see something much better than 50s, certainly up in the high 70s or maybe 80s. Even at 15dB down atten speeds of 80 are normally acchievable.

What do you have installed and what is your wiring like?
Approx, by walking distance, how far from the cabinet (yes, the cable may route differently) but it will give an idea.

Hi
Router is under 1ft from socket (other side of wall) with a micro filter. Phone lead into that as well. Phone is wireless at end of house away from socket. The BT box is 2-3minits easy walk from house. I think the cable rout is under pavements as there are BT covers you see them lifting often so very much the walking distance (1980’ estate).

Could well be, but next door is getting around 60 which clearly I haven't been able to veryfy.

So, at a guess 300 metres maximum? If so, that would tie in with the attenuation but not necessarily explain the slow speed.

Have you tried disconnecting EVERYTHING extension cabling, filter, phones and having just the modem/hub connected?

edit to add:

I missed the 65 Max, but that is still low for the attenuation.

Edited by MHC (Thu 11-Jun-20 15:18:41)

But the router is showing Max available of over 65Mbps on 6.4dB SNRM. On Fast Path.

Something is very odd.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 11-Jun-20 15:25:23)

Which ISP is it John, please?

Edit: Maybe KCom?

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 11-Jun-20 15:26:11)

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Given there is no Openreach 55/20 product it looks like line is hitting the maximum download that it can manage on the 80/20 service i.e. only 20 Mbps upload FTTC product.

NOTE: Its possible that G.INP may kick in in a couple of weeks and speeds rise a bit more.

I spent the first few months of my current IDNet connection on what appeared to be 55/20 then after several hours uploading to Google Drive it suddenly died and the HG612 couldn't reconnect by itself. When I manually restarted the HG612 the connection came back at about 65/20 and after I got an independent engineer to sort out the crackling on my phone last year line it went up to what I think is around 78/20.

Just goes to show that a downstream sync of 55 can become something a lot better over time. It also proves that crackling on the telephone can be impacting DSL even if the connection appears rock-solid.

Edited by Andrue (Thu 11-Jun-20 16:23:46)

In reply to a post by MHC:

So, at a guess 300 metres maximum? If so, that would tie in with the attenuation but not necessarily explain the slow speed.

Have you tried disconnecting EVERYTHING extension cabling, filter, phones and having just the modem/hub connected?

edit to add:

I missed the 65 Max, but that is still low for the attenuation.

I have replaced the filter which slightly lowered the latency. I haven't tried removing the phone; we are tied up organising a U3A AGM (Zoom) so to do that for a lengthy time wouldn't go down well!

My ISP is now getting BT to adjust the exchange settings as even they admit it should have better speed than its getting. So I will see if that does help. If it does I would be interested in who set the setting put on the line originally.

Nothing to do with BT or the exchange.

DSLAM is owned by Openreach and only three profiles available plus a reset of DLM in terms of tweaks.

Try it late at night or early morning when you are unlikely to need the phone. All it needs is a disconnect, remove everything, reconnect and use for say 30 minutes, before reversing everything. If you can prove everything in te house is OK, you can press for external checks.

Not sure what they can do at teh exchange though - FTTC terminates in the cabinet and is shared fibre from there back.

I also have experience of line problems. Before we moved where we lived had a fairly lengthy and mostly old main BT cabling through the village. We spent 6-8 years battling BT, phone noise was so bad at times calls would be discounted and/or inaudible. It was the classic dry joint problem, as the cabling got wet or dried out it got worse or improved. With fibre things got much improved except the phone line that still had to go through the old cabling. In the end an engineer switched our phone line to one vacated by someone moving the same morning, there were no spare lines to change to. I know they weren’t meant to do that and some other poor sod got our old line, but… The fibre was no problem the cabinet was at the end of our garden with a new cable to a pole at i

Indeed engineer turned up at house! He replaced the socket and some wiring. Though speed will go up to middle 50’s.