Moving home, need advice as broadband is poor

Hi. Looking for advice after doing some research and not really understanding much! I'm due to move home, and the broadband will be an issue. The house is in a semi rural area and can only receive 10 - 20mbps approx. which won't be enough for me and my wife to work from home whilst our 4 children are also online (XBoxes, gaming PC, Netflix, phones etc). We currently have 60mbps which is fine and I need something similar or better and I can also order it through my business.

So far, I'm considering an FTTP survey although even if financially viable the lead time may be a problem. I would be prepared to go up to £6 or £7k for the install but I suspect the cost may be much more. I've had a quote for a fibre ethernet connection for 100mbps but at £300 / month for 3 years its a bit more than I want to pay. I'm looking for advice re: other options and where to look and who to speak to, so any advice is much appreciated. Thanks

Why do you think 10-20 Mbps will be inadequate?

During the day you and your wife will be working - that will be adequate. I have a friend who manages some major data analysis networks that have been key during covid - he is on less that 3Mbps

In the evening - four children should be able to cope with just 10Mbps - if not they will need to learn how

Where are you getting 10-20mbits estimate from and what service is it based on?
Worst case you could get multiple lines/ connections. One for work and the other just for the kids/home use.
Unlimited 4G may a viable alternative or use in conjunction with a fixed line service.

4 people on a 10 Mb/s connection is going to be a struggle!

One person opens up a stream and you can loose all of that bandwidth in a go. Anyone who thinks that 10Mbps is enough for that many people in 2021 is an idiot.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Why do you think 10-20 Mbps will be inadequate?

During the day you and your wife will be working - that will be adequate. I have a friend who manages some major data analysis networks that have been key during covid - he is on less that 3Mbps

In the evening - four children should be able to cope with just 10Mbps - if not they will need to learn how

I have to agree. If you can get the higher end of that estimate then it's manageable with decent QoS rules to prioritise the real-time traffic (video calls, online games) over streaming and downloads.

You could look at 4G/5G options but unless you can find a network that can consistently deliver over 20Mbps it might not be worth it.

Some other connectivity ideas;

1. You could combine a 4G service with your FTTC (or two indy 4G services) to give you multiple WAN connections or combine them to form a seamless single larger “pipe”. So either:
(a) multi WAN connections using the traditional round-robin / primary-secondary approach using a standard router like for example a standard Draytek
(b) bond the connections using a VPS service and OpenMPTCProuter running on some off the shelf but customisable hardware like a Raspberry Pi. More involved but potentially a better end service. See this thread for thoughts. Some further links to other threads in post 6 of that thread.

2. Starlink. Although it’s still in (quite limited) beta, so the bugs aren’t all ironed out yet, and there are still outage blocks. However ping times are pretty good, speeds are great and there’s no download limits. Although absolute numbers are limited, it may be worth a shot. Again you could always back that up with FTTC if there was an outage.

Edited by Pheasant (Mon 31-May-21 04:17:13)

In reply to a post by nsmith007:

The house is in a semi rural area ...

If it is truly semi rural you might have a WISP (Wireless ISP) that covers the area, check this map - https://www.ukwispa.org/members-map .Then look at the website for the WISP that covers your area, if you have one.

If you have the budget, Starlink will become an option later this year.

Low latency, high speed, satellite Internet for about £90 a month (and ~£500 un front for the dish).

In fact, if you are in some areas of the UK you can already get it.

https://www.starlink.com

and checkout https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/ for to see the general experience of using it.

I ordered it a few months ago, still waiting for my area to be enabled.

Edited by andynormancx (Mon 31-May-21 08:52:32)

I wouldn't say low latency, and it's still very much in beta. Pricey considering!

Edited by Grimers (Mon 31-May-21 17:04:42)

Maybe us idiots have got different things to do. Play a sport, go for a walk.

Life shouldn't revolve round the internet.

In reply to a post by broadband66:

Maybe us idiots have got different things to do. Play a sport, go for a walk.
Life shouldn't revolve round the internet.

That's pretty easy to say when you don't know the members circumstances, that speed wouldn't work here with a teenage that uses Netflix and YouTube most of the time he is here meaning at least 5 Mbps (the minimum for Netflix) is being used plus catch-up and streaming on the TV means i imagine most of us would need more than 10 Mbps.

As for your statement life shouldn't revolve round the internet maybe it shouldn't but it now does, my son doesn't watch TV al all and hasn't for years and i watch little myself i prefer Netflix or spending my time doing other stuff online, i am not into social media but my Wife and Son are i am afraid lives now do revolve around the internet.

Edited by Jack_Hackett (Mon 31-May-21 19:10:28)

Exactly, and it also depends on the speeds you get. Someone who uses the internet for similar things with a slow speed is likely to have to spend more time than someone who has a faster speed.

The 10-20mb estimate is from EE and also the specialist providers I've contacted re: business broadband. I'll look into multiple lines thanks - I hadn't thought of it. Apologies if this is a daft question... would 3 lines averaging 20mbps each in effect be the same as a 60mbps single line?? A 4G router or two might also help as O2 and Vodafone apparently have good signals in the area according to a coverage map I found online.

Post deleted by nsmith007

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Some other connectivity ideas;

1. You could combine a 4G service with your FTTC (or two indy 4G services) to give you multiple WAN connections or combine them to form a seamless single larger “pipe”. So either:
(a) multi WAN connections using the traditional round-robin / primary-secondary approach using a standard router like for example a standard Draytek
(b) bond the connections using a VPS service and OpenMPTCProuter running on some off the shelf but customisable hardware like a Raspberry Pi. More involved but potentially a better end service. See this thread for thoughts. Some further links to other threads in post 6 of that thread.

2. Starlink. Although it’s still in (quite limited) beta, so the bugs aren’t all ironed out yet, and there are still outage blocks. However ping times are pretty good, speeds are great and there’s no download limits. Although absolute numbers are limited, it may be worth a shot. Again you could always back that up with FTTC if there was an outage.

Thanks for the detailed reply. A lot for me to read and learn here! If I'm right, I think this is the FTTC broadband plus two or more 4G routers, connected to provide a better signal overall?? If I go down this route I'll probably see if there's a local specialist to help with the set up

In reply to a post by nsmith007:

I think this is the FTTC broadband plus two or more 4G routers, connected to provide a better signal overall?? If I go down this route I'll probably see if there's a local specialist to help with the set up

You will need to remember that the 4G connection(s) will have a higher latency than a land-based connection so are not ideal for gaming purposes. Reading your original posting this could be as big a factor as the actual speed.

Edited by GonePostal (Mon 31-May-21 21:58:20)

In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:

In reply to a post by broadband66:

Maybe us idiots have got different things to do. Play a sport, go for a walk.
Life shouldn't revolve round the internet.

That's pretty easy to say when you don't know the members circumstances, that speed wouldn't work here with a teenage that uses Netflix and YouTube most of the time he is here meaning at least 5 Mbps (the minimum for Netflix) is being used plus catch-up and streaming on the TV means i imagine most of us would need more than 10 Mbps.

As for your statement life shouldn't revolve round the internet maybe it shouldn't but it now does, my son doesn't watch TV al all and hasn't for years and i watch little myself i prefer Netflix or spending my time doing other stuff online, i am not into social media but my Wife and Son are i am afraid lives now do revolve around the internet.

Agreed. My two lads are out every weekend playing football and rugby, and train most week nights. My two daughters are at the gym every day and are out socialising 2 or 3 times a week. So we're all fairly active, but ultimately when they are home, it's Netflix, Youtube, Xbox Live, gaming on a PC, school / college work, face time calls, Spotify plus other stuff I probably have forgotten. So the internet is a major part of our lives but I'm satisfied it's balanced with a range of other activities.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

In reply to a post by nsmith007:

I think this is the FTTC broadband plus two or more 4G routers, connected to provide a better signal overall?? If I go down this route I'll probably see if there's a local specialist to help with the set up

You will need to remember that the 4G connection(s) will have a higher latency than a land-based connection so are not ideal for gaming purposes. Reading your original posting this could be as big a factor as the actual speed.

Thanks for this, I didn't realise. Yep, I've heard 'ping time' mentioned a few times when my lads are gaming!

I said "Low latency, high speed, satellite Internet"

So, low latency for satellite Internet, where traditional latency has been in the hundreds of milliseconds, not the tens. And the medium term plan for it is to be low latency generally, certainly their aim is better than I get over 4G at the moment.

It really isn't pricey for those of us stuck out in the sticks with slow ADSL/FTTC and flakey 4G options. Which is exactly who the service is aimed at.

It only looks pricey if you have access to cheaper/better connectivity...

Edited by andynormancx (Tue 01-Jun-21 11:38:50)

And can be very variable in speed. When my 4G connection is at its best it is 90mbps down, 40mbps up. But their are plenty of times when it is limping* along at more like 15mbps down, 20mbps up.

* and yes, some people would kill for 15mbps, but it isn't great when you and your 4K HDR stream is expecting 40-90

Fair enough.

Agreed. My two lads are out every weekend playing football and rugby, and train most week nights. My two daughters are at the gym every day and are out socialising 2 or 3 times a week. So we're all fairly active, but ultimately when they are home, it's Netflix, Youtube, Xbox Live, gaming on a PC, school / college work, face time calls, Spotify plus other stuff I probably have forgotten. So the internet is a major part of our lives but I'm satisfied it's balanced with a range of other activities.

We get 65Mbps on a Fibre 65 FTTC plan from Talk Talk so we don't have any issues even when we are all at home which isn't often but i would hate to be on 10Mbps on a wet Sunday afternoon in the middle of winter when we are likely to be all at home as i said earlier Netflix HD uses 5Mbps which would be a worry if two devices were using it.

I plan to buy a 4K T.V in the not too distant future and as stated below a minimum speed of 25 Mbps is required to stream Netflix, a lot of people are going to be held back by the lack of speed and i assume its because BT say they cannot afford to get everyone onto a decent usable speed, did you know British Telecommunications Group generated £22.82 billion in 2020 i am sure if they wanted to they could.


How to watch Netflix in 4K Ultra HD

Ultra HD streaming is available on Netflix on many 4K devices.

To watch Netflix in Ultra HD, you need:

A Netflix plan that supports streaming in Ultra HD.

A 60Hz TV or computer monitor compatible with Ultra HD streaming from Netflix.

A steady internet connection speed of 25 megabits per second or higher.


EDIT - I quoted the wrong person.

Edited by Jack_Hackett (Tue 01-Jun-21 15:48:28)

Hi and thanks for all the advice so far, it's much appreciated. I've narrowed it down to 2 options:

1) leased line (100 up/100 down) ,costing £220 / month +VAT on a 36 month contract.
For: more or less guaranteed service and can be up and running relatively quickly as there's some exisitng infrastructure around the property.
Against: £3168 a year for 3 years, and the possibility that something better and / or cheaper will become available during the contract would be a worry.

2) Starlink. I've pre-ordered as the deposit is refundable. Download speeds and ping times should be good enough for what I need based on feedback that I've read.
For: More economical at £89 / month after an approx £500 inital outlay.
Against: Could be a long wait so will have to use FTTC and 4G routers in the meantime. Also there will likely be some downtime until the service develops. The dish will use around 100w on average so electricity bills will be around £15 a month more (not really an issue).

Starlink is looking favourite a this point.

What did people do 10 or 15 years ago?

The speed is what you get and one has to live life around that.

We have a 4K television but have only watched one thing in 4K. HD is more than enough. Having to pay Netflix extra for UHD is s bit much.

If one wants real life pictures (4K and 8K isn't real life) then get out and enjoy the outside. Wet days shouldn't stop anyone from enjoying the outdoors.

Edited by broadband66 (Wed 02-Jun-21 15:48:59)

Try and get several quotes on the leased line, especially on a three year term. It’s a big commitment and there is decent negotiating room in reality. There can be much variance on not only price but actual delivery lead time depending on who provides the tails. Wholesale deals via a third party CP can often be better than through the name brands themselves. Don’t just rely on Google. Finally as you’re paying paying full whack business prices for a dedicated, uncontended business grade service, so don’t be afraid to walk if they dick you about in the slightest - I say that from somewhat bitter experience.

Starlink is good - but it’s the total and utter polar opposite of a dedicated leased line in every way. It is still very much a beta service and even with the current rate of launches will be for the next 6 to 12 months - at least. So eyes wide open. Don’t be disappointed when it’s on the blink for a few days or hobbling along. Despite the hype they are less than 10% of full constellation and and are still building uplinks. Beta is beta.

I'm going to advise against the leased line. EAD 100 is £140 per month, connection is £2200, so on a 3-year term your provider is incurring monthly costs from Openreach of £200 (inc. VAT prices), which only gets you a link from your premises back to the exchange - they then have costs of backhaul and actually making money off you. I wouldn't expect there to be more than maybe £15-20 of wriggle room on the quote you've been given already.

What could possibly be helpful would be the recently announced flexible leased line services from Virgin Media (https://www.virginmediabusiness.co.uk/why-virgin/press-area/press-releases/2021/virgin-media-business-shakes-up-wholesale-connectivity-market-with-flexible-anytime-cancellation-as-standard/) but they've not been turned into products yet - at least then if you feel it's all been a huge mistake you can cease the service and not be held to a multi-year contract.

If we're optimistic and assume you're getting the high end of your FTTC estimate, then two of these services load balanced together could give you 35-40Mbps of throughput, and cost you around £60 per month, then you just wait to see what develops.

If you post a partial postcode then people can have a look at what's available.

Edited by jpm (Wed 02-Jun-21 16:57:04)

What did people do 10 or 15 years ago?

Similar to what they do now but a bit slower.

The speed is what you get and one has to live life around that.

Well if you are happy with what you get fine if not as the OP has demonstrated in the thread there are ways of getting faster speeds.

We have a 4K television but have only watched one thing in 4K. HD is more than enough. Having to pay Netflix extra for UHD is s bit much.

If HD is more than enough for you fine i want to watch UHD and don't mind paying the extra £1 a week to watch it on Netflix
Do you want to sell that TV as its obviously wasted on you

If one wants real life pictures (4K and 8K isn't real life) then get out and enjoy the outside. Wet days shouldn't stop anyone from enjoying the outdoors.

Well thanks for the advice, a little background if i may -

I spend 7 hours every day in a wagon driving through the lake district i see more stunning scenery and sights in a week than most people see in a year.

I have no wish to be stuck in traffic jams made up of tourists flooding into the lake district in my own time (weekends) i do enough of that during the week.

Edited by Jack_Hackett (Wed 02-Jun-21 18:46:35)

Hi, post code of the property is L40 6** . Thanks

You couldn't watch UHD 15 years ago.

You do realise that many so called 4K films are artificially up rated due to them not having been filmed in 4K.

4K is pretty useless on small devices, so all this "my children watch on 10 devices each" is a waste of time.

Driving for a living, through stunning scenery, is a job. Getting out in it and enjoying it is a different kettle of fish.

In reply to a post by broadband66:

You couldn't watch UHD 15 years ago.

I didn't say we could, you asked what we used to do 10 - 15 years ago i answered basically what we do now but slower., i don't think that statement is wrong.

You do realise that many so called 4K films are artificially up rated due to them not having been filmed in 4K.

Yes.

Strange that you are giving me all this info yet you are the one that blindly bougt a UHD TV then decided it wasn't for you.

You seem to be trying to convince me i do not need UHD well i have seen it working and i am impressed, i may not need it but i do want it.

4K is pretty useless on small devices, so all this "my children watch on 10 devices each" is a waste of time

Where is the quote above from and who said anything about watching UHD on small devices, why would i want to do that we have a decent size TV in the lounge and my son has one in his bedroom being able to watch on a phone is handy but its not the way i view Netflix etc.

Driving for a living, through stunning scenery, is a job

EDIT FOR ACCURACY -
Driving for a living, through stunning scenery is a pleasure even when Fred and Doris are driving along the lanes at 15 MPH enjoying the view.

Getting out in it and enjoying it is a different kettle of fish.

We have to take regular breaks so of course we "get out in it" you may walk miles to enjoy the scenery i can park (within reason) wherever i want and can get out and enjoy the fresh air and scenery whenever i want, you may think you have to be a crag rat to get pleasure from the lakes etc i am telling you you are wrong.

You being a crag rat is an assumption but as you have made several throughout this thread i think i am allowed one.

Edited by Jack_Hackett (Thu 03-Jun-21 20:07:02)

In reply to a post by nsmith007:

Hi, post code of the property is L40 6** . Thanks

It looks like you're in the planned FTTP coverage area:

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/fibre-first

For what it’s worth according to OR F/F Build maps, Omskirk and the surrounding areas are already Work In Progress and Skelmersdale is In Plan…depends exactly where the OP is….

If their forecast plans are reasonably accurate a 3 year bet on leased line might not be smart. Unless OP really, really wants a LL

I wouldn’t even countenance an FoD quote in this case.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

I wouldn’t even countenance an FoD quote in this case.

Openreach might not even issue one. I approached Cerberus for an FTTPoD quote last year, the reply from Openreach was 'FTTP is already planned at this location'.

Sure enough, my exchange appeared on the next FTTP build plan a few weeks later.

In reply to a post by jpm:

I'm going to advise against the leased line. EAD 100 is £140 per month, connection is £2200, so on a 3-year term your provider is incurring monthly costs from Openreach of £200 (inc. VAT prices), which only gets you a link from your premises back to the exchange - they then have costs of backhaul and actually making money off you. I wouldn't expect there to be more than maybe £15-20 of wriggle room on the quote you've been given already.

An observation on historic EAD prices from Openreach...

After continuing and quite drastic reductions over the last decade, prices appear to have plateaued in the last revision for both EAD100 (from £4,400 to £1,600 over ten years) and EAD1000 (from £9,500 to £1,940 over ten years).

In fact looks like EAD100 has actually increased slightly.

When I put the full address into the OR website I get this statement: "At the moment, we don't have any plans to upgrade your area to full fibre, but provide your contact details and we'll keep you up to date if things change - we add new locations into our build plan every three months."

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet. You stated we do now what we did many years ago. You couldn't watch 4K UHD 15 years ago, even slowly, so YOUR statement was wrong.

I was originally commenting about users in general saying that they have 2 adults and 4 children requiring fast internet because of 5 devices each but by using it correctly there isn't a need for super fast broadband.

My previous telly was an HD Ready Plasma therefore only showed 720p and as HD 1080p is the norm then the upgrade was obvious.

You have your ideas and I have mine.

Not sure if you’re in the purple or amber section of this map. OR still do skip entire streets etc.

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet.

If i have its probably due to some random guy on a forum telling me i am wasting my money getting UHD T.V and telling me i need to get out more!

You stated we do now what we did many years ago. You couldn't watch 4K UHD 15 years ago, even slowly, so YOUR statement was wrong.

Erm no i didn't, i actually said "Similar to what they do now but a bit slower" i didn't know you were in pedant mode and wanted me to break down everything we do now that we didn't do then.

I was originally commenting about users in general saying that they have 2 adults and 4 children requiring fast internet because of 5 devices each but by using it correctly there isn't a need for super fast broadband.

Well obviously these plebs are not as up to speed as you in the workings of the internet and devices that connect to it and instead of messing about trying to get 5 devices working at the same time on a 10Mbps connection they would rather have a useable speed so they all work without messing about.

My previous telly was an HD Ready Plasma therefore only showed 720p and as HD 1080p is the norm then the upgrade was obvious.
You have your ideas and I have mine.

I have mine but it would appear from this thread you don't think mine are right.






.

Edited by Jack_Hackett (Fri 04-Jun-21 16:44:27)

This makes interesting reading, 87% of all UK homes are on more than a 10Mbps connection i amnot surprised those on 10Mbps or less are not happy.

I have provided a link so you can read the full article.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52646811

The main body of the report, which covers the data from 2019, found that nearly three-quarters of UK homes have what Ofcom considers "superfast" broadband packages of 30Mpbs or higher.

Real-world connection speeds are slightly lower, with 69% of people achieving 30Mbps or more. That includes the 17% of homes on 100Mbps or higher, and 3% achieve more than 300Mbps.

On the lower end, 13% of homes are still on connections of 10mbps or less, and another 18% have speeds between 10-30mbps.

In reply to a post by Jack_Hackett:

This makes interesting reading, 87% of all UK homes are on more than a 10Mbps connection i amnot surprised those on 10Mbps or less are not happy.

I have provided a link so you can read the full article.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52646811

The main body of the report, which covers the data from 2019, found that nearly three-quarters of UK homes have what Ofcom considers "superfast" broadband packages of 30Mpbs or higher.

Real-world connection speeds are slightly lower, with 69% of people achieving 30Mbps or more. That includes the 17% of homes on 100Mbps or higher, and 3% achieve more than 300Mbps.

On the lower end, 13% of homes are still on connections of 10mbps or less, and another 18% have speeds between 10-30mbps.

You may wish to review / rephrase your first sentence there, as its not what the BBC article states.

Also that article is now more than a year out of date. Broadband wise things have moved on despite the pandemic.

You may wish to review / rephrase your first sentence there, as its not what the BBC article states.

I didn't realise this was from 2019 but it states 13% of homes are still on connections of 10mbps or less therefore 87% are on higher speeds.

Pedant mode on -
This is obviously not every home as every home doesn't have broadband.

.

Edited by Jack_Hackett (Fri 04-Jun-21 18:25:44)

Broadband users Type of broadband Speeds

1-2 people ADSL 10-11Mbps

3-4 people Fibre 30–60Mbps

5+ people Fibre 60-516Mbps

Gamers or streamers Fibre 60-516Mbps

Read in full - https://www.cable.co.uk/broadband/guides/what-broadb...

Jack - this is possibly more up to date and impartial.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/research-and-data/telecoms-...

Thanks.

I presume that the user's name should really be "dialupmodem56k" 🤣🤣

In reply to a post by alwall:

I presume that the user's name should really be "dialupmodem56k" 🤣🤣

I think there’s some good advice so far but given your 60mbps service today I wouldn’t see the need for business type connections.

I would say one residential connection if you can get starlink soon, or if it’s going to be a long lead time maybe add a 2nd residential line.

The last year has been rather odd with home broadband being used much more due to WFH and schools being closed. Will you need business and personal/children usage simultaneously?

Openreach have now provided forward guidance on their FTTP for the next 5 years so I would suggest reading that if you haven’t already.

Oh dear

Knickers in a twist again! We are all random people.

I didn't say you were wasting your time purchasing a 4K telly.

What's the point in the forum if we all agree?

In reply to a post by broadband66:

Knickers in a twist again! .

How old are you?
Why don't you act your age not your shoe size!

I didn't say you were wasting your time purchasing a 4K telly

I didn't accuse you of saying i was wasting my time my exact words are below (notice i said money not time)

If i have its probably due to some random guy on a forum telling me i am wasting my money getting UHD T.V and telling me i need to get out more!

To put this into context you have posted in this thread -

"HD is enough"

"You do realise that many so called 4K films are artificially up rated due to them not having been filmed in 4K"

"having to pay Netflix extra for UHD is a bit much"

Is that not telling me i am wasting my money getting UHD now as its not really UHD and it costs more if viewing it on Netflix i don't know what it is.

.

Edited by Jack_Hackett (Sat 05-Jun-21 16:23:06)

Who's being pedantic now?

.


.

.

No!

In reply to a post by broadband66:

Who's being pedantic now?

You call it me being a pedant i call it me showing you lie, why you felt the need to do that is beyond me.

.

In reply to a post by broadband66:

I was originally commenting about users in general saying that they have 2 adults and 4 children requiring fast internet because of 5 devices each but by using it correctly there isn't a need for super fast broadband.

Correctly?

What does that even mean in your narrow minded view?

In reply to a post by Davey_H:

In reply to a post by broadband66:

I was originally commenting about users in general saying that they have 2 adults and 4 children requiring fast internet because of 5 devices each but by using it correctly there isn't a need for super fast broadband.

Correctly?

What does that even mean in your narrow minded view?

I am really looking forward the reply.

.

Tagged to last post

Remember this thread is trying to help the OP and is not about those squabbling for more than 3 days about something and nothing.

In reply to a post by dect:

Tagged to last post

Remember this thread is trying to help the OP and is not about those squabbling for more than 3 days about something and nothing.

+1

In reply to a post by nsmith007:

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

In reply to a post by nsmith007:

I think this is the FTTC broadband plus two or more 4G routers, connected to provide a better signal overall?? If I go down this route I'll probably see if there's a local specialist to help with the set up

You will need to remember that the 4G connection(s) will have a higher latency than a land-based connection so are not ideal for gaming purposes. Reading your original posting this could be as big a factor as the actual speed.

Thanks for this, I didn't realise. Yep, I've heard 'ping time' mentioned a few times when my lads are gaming!

Bear in mind that if Starlink is looking as your favoured option then despite the hype 4G/5G will currently provide a lower and more consistent ping / jitter times then Starlink does. Although Starlink is many, many times more responsive than traditional geo-stationary sat broadband it still has pesky physics to contend with. 😀

At the other polar extreme, your other favoured leased line option will deliver consistent ping times as low as a few milliseconds (or better! the closer you are to the big internet exchanges)

In reply to a post by dect:

Tagged to last post

Remember this thread is trying to help the OP and is not about those squabbling for more than 3 days about something and nothing.

If you look at my first post i was trying to help the OP i never intended this to end up where it did.

Ok I can see some people are too thick to think for themselves.

If a person is complaining about having a slow connection and has 4 devices per person in a household using said connection then you work out what is needed in order to use the only connection they have in an orderly fashion without drop outs, etc.

:/ END

In reply to a post by broadband66:

Ok I can see some people are too thick to think for themselves.

If a person is complaining about having a slow connection and has 4 devices per person in a household using said connection then you work out what is needed in order to use the only connection they have in an orderly fashion without drop outs, etc.

:/ END

Wow you finally show your true colours what a nasty piece of work you are, how can you call people thick just because they may not know as much about how the internet works as you, you should be ashamed for posting that.

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Edited by Jack_Hackett (Sun 06-Jun-21 19:07:20)

Thanks for all the advice so far which has been a big help in improving my understanding and shaping my thinking. At this point (we're around 2.5 weeks away from moving into the property if all goes smoothly), my plan is to use the FTTC line, alongside two 4G routers on rolling monthy plans (from different networks), and see how that goes whilst awaiting Starlink and also in anticipation of FTTP being available in the area in the future. The leased line option is really tempting but I'll see how we get on first before committing to it.

It would be useful for me to know how much bandwidth is being used at my current address when the whole family are online during a typical evening (Xbox live, gaming PC, couple of TVs streaming Netflix) so my next step is to check this. Thanks

You might want to look at the usage peaks, especially when everyone is using it simultaneously, not just the aggregate total used per day/evening.

In the interim period, if you’re breaking things up with separate FTTC and 2 x 4G services you may not notice it as much, but it’s something to be aware of, when you put it back to a single service.

This is not so much for general browsing, but for real time services that will be affected if the “pipe is full” - video and audio streaming and stuff like telephony/VoIP.

Hi, a brief update and some questions ... we are hopefully moving early next week. I've ruled out a leased line and Starlink isn't available yet. My current ISP (EE) will only guarantee 11mbps at the new property (quoted typical range 15 - 25mbps) so I may not bother with this. I've checked a website comapring 4g signal strengths and O2 have the strongest signal in the area, followed by EE. So I'm planning on getting a mobile router with an O2 unlimited SIM. Quick recap.. main use is streaming TV, gaming PC and Xbox live. Things I'm not sure about:

1) The house is 3500sq ft and over three floors, so I'm presuming a single 4g router wont cover it all. Can the signal be somehow spread / distributed around the house? Eg at the moment I use BT discs to ensure full coverage. Can something like this work with a 4g router?

2) Is it worth getting two 4g routers, and if so would it be best to get them from different ISPs? Would they 'combine' to increase overall speed or would devices just move from one to the other?

3) Is there any benefit in getting fibre broadband at the speeds noted above? This would be in addition to mobile broadband.

Budget wise I'd be happy to get the fibre, plus one or two 4g routers. Any advice is much appreciated . Thanks

1) What type of BT discs do you have? I believe the black ones only extend a BT smart hub but I think the white ones can be used as a mesh to provide wireless in place of the wireless built into the router (or possibly extending it). If you can't do it with the BT Hubs then there are a number of wireless mesh options on the market at a range of prices.

2) I'll leave this to others to answer as not sure what the options are for load balancing 4G routers.

3) Benefit of fibre broadband would be low latency for gaming. You might find the 4G doesn't give you a great gaming experience especially at busy times. You could get the 4G and try it out and if it doesn't provide the best experience then contract for FTTC later - 4G will probably get you by but long term if you do much gaming then you may find FTTC is better for it even at slow throughput speeds (gaming needs low latency rather than high speeds). If a game needs updating you could always switch the device to the 4G temporarily to get the higher speeds for the download and switch back for gaming for the low latency.

You may want to consider external aerials for your 4g modems - house construction can have a serious impact on signal strength. Definitely worth experimenting with a phone and sim from the your chosen network to determine the sweet spot /side of the house etc.

Hi - a brief update and a question... I've ruled out LL and have signed up for Starlink, in meantime we are using 4g mobile routers with limited success. However, today Openreach turned up unexpectedly and said they'd been asked to run a fibre line from the house to the nearest pole. No idea why they came, so could this be an indication that fibre may be arriving soon?

We currently have an old copper wire in a duct from the nearest pole, they tried to run a fibre line through the duct but couldn't manage it, so they're returning to run fibre overhead from the pole.

I had a LL survey about 4 weeks ago but did not sign the contract due to the install costs, so I'm wondering if there's been some confusion.

Although even when the house is connected via fibre to the pole across the road, we're still a long way from the nearest cabinet or node

So I suppose my question is, any ideas why OR would turn up out of the blue like this? Thanks

Normally leased lines are done on the basis of ordered pending survey, and then if the ECCs come out above the threshold Openreach are willing to absorb it will be flagged back to the ISP - but crucially the service will be delivered unless cancelled at that point.

So it's possible that the order is just continuing because nobody at the ISP has cancelled it. Check your paperwork very carefully.

Just double checked the info I'd had from TalkTalk Business after the survey was completed, this is copied from their email on 22nd July:


'If you do not wish to accept the construction charges and request that the order is to be cancelled, you will not be charged and the circuit will not be installed.

The circuit will now be placed on hold with our suppliers for a maximum of 30 days from the date of this email, after 30 days our supplier will cancel the order from their systems under the assumption that it is not required. Please can you notify us and your account manager within 30 days from today on how you would like to proceed.

Did you get to the bottom of it?

Hi. I emailed TalkTalk Business to confirm again that I didn't want to proceed, and there's been nothing further from Open Reach. So perhaps the order was being progressed in error.