Backup connection

I currently have 900Mbps FTTP on a BT Employee package which involves me paying £21.10 for line rental and getting the broadband free.

My wife works from home (not for BT) and relies heavily on the internet connection. Nothing too taxing, just office based stuff like downloading spreadsheets, web based apps, video chat (a lot of this), all via a VPN connection. Outside of work, we stream a lot of TV - Netflix, Amazon Prime, iPlayer, etc.

While I have no reason to believe that the FTTP will go faulty, I know it does happen - ONT power supplies fail, contractors stand on fibre cables, head end equipment goes faulty, etc - so was thinking in investing in a backup internet connection, mainly to keep the wife working in the event that the worst happens.

At the moment, we still have the landline supplied over the copper pair. I understand that since the FTTP is tied to the landline, currently I can't order any sort of DSL service on this as it would potentially cease the FTTP. However I have had a letter from BT saying the migration to digital voice is imminent (no confirmed date yet).

Once the migration to digital voice has completed, am I correct in thinking that the copper pair is then free for me to order another DSL service from another provider on without it affecting the FTTP?

I can also get Virgin and soon City Fibre as well (cable was laid recently but its not live yet) however I would prefer to stick with DSL for a couple of reasons

1 - I don't see this backup service getting much, if any use so don't want to spend much on it
2 - I don't particularly want additional hardware. At the moment I have a Billion 8800 AXL R2 which has the DSL port sitting empty. The router can be configured to switch to this automatically if the FTTP goes down

I would welcome any thoughts on this plan. I was thinking of something like plus net ADSL at £18.99 a month, unless anyone has any other suggestions.

I have had both ADSL and VDSL before and downstream sync speeds were 14 and 67Mbps respectively.

Edited by troublegum (Sun 05-Dec-21 19:36:12)

If you need a backup you should run it on a different network. You say you will soon have a choice.
However little you spend, its still a lot for a very small chance of failure. I can't remember my internet going off recently. When/if it does mobile internet works well. Probably faster than ADSL.

Yeh. If that digger bucket or the rats chew through the spine cable that feeds the local cab (as well as the FTTP ag node), then FTTC is a bit screwed….

Why not a 4G/5G backup, esp. if it rarely used?

Migration to digital voice will mean that it will soon be disconnected at the exchange or cabinet too and underground cabling recovered.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Migration to digital voice will mean that it will soon be disconnected at the exchange or cabinet too and underground cabling recovered.

Migration to Digital Voice is a BT only thing and shouldn't have any bearing on the Openreach infrastructure.
All cabling will be left in situ.
There are plenty other ISP's who will be willing to sell the OP PSTN and/or FTTC.

BT's Digital Voice switchover is well ahead of any Openreach FTTP Priority exchanges or any WLR withdrawal exchanges.
BT have fully migrated all FTTP customers on my exchange to Digital Voice already and the main FTTP build isn't even due to start here until next year

Unless the OP is on an FTTP priority exchange that has already reached 75% coverage and had 12 months notice of a stop sale/no go back to copper policy then FTTC will definitely be available.

Apart from Salisbury and possibly Mildenhall I'm not aware of any exchanges that have actually reached either thresholds that trigger a stop sell.

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

If you need a backup you should run it on a different network. You say you will soon have a choice.
However little you spend, its still a lot for a very small chance of failure. I can't remember my internet going off recently. When/if it does mobile internet works well. Probably faster than ADSL.

You’re right enough I suppose. We can activate the WiFi hotspot on our iPhones, and we do have reasonable speeds on 4G with generous data amounts (I get discounted rates on EE as well).

There is the slight complication that the wife’s work provided PC which connects via WiFi is allegedly locked to the current SSID for security purposes. When she set it up the IT helpdesk helped her connect it and said it would be unable to connect to any other SSID.

But I suppose they could assist her with changing it temporarily if the situation arose.

I still have copper avaialble at my location as well as FTTP and it has been confirmed that nothing will be delivered over the copper pair. And I know of several other people who have been told that they are being moved to DV and have had it confirmed that any copper circuit will become inoperable and no service delivered over it.

I would like to see te success rate for anyone trying to get FTTC over a now obsolete line.

In reply to a post by MHC:

I still have copper avaialble at my location as well as FTTP and it has been confirmed that nothing will be delivered over the copper pair.

By BT maybe.
If it isn't an FTTP priority exchange you can order FTTC from anyone else.
Anyone who told you otherwise is incorrect.

BT don't dictate copper withdrawal, stop sells or no go back policies.
Openreach control that and it is very publicised, with 12 months notice given.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by MHC:

I still have copper avaialble at my location as well as FTTP and it has been confirmed that nothing will be delivered over the copper pair.

By BT maybe.
If it isn't an FTTP priority exchange you can order FTTC from anyone else.
Anyone who told you otherwise is incorrect.

BT don't dictate copper withdrawal, stop sells or no go back policies.
Openreach control that and it is very publicised, with 12 months notice given.

BT plc DO dictate PSTN withdrawal, no questions asked. It was approved at BT plc board level.

I have had it confirmed that I cannot get any service from pther providers over the copper pair and that was NOT from BT or OR.

The process has been agreed with OFCOM after years of consultation. It is well publicised.

If your exchange is not an FTTP priority exchange with sufficient coverage then any product is still available.

https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/products/produc...

Anyone who told you otherwise is wrong, no ifs no buts.

In reply to a post by troublegum:

You’re right enough I suppose. We can activate the WiFi hotspot on our iPhones, and we do have reasonable speeds on 4G with generous data amounts (I get discounted rates on EE as well).

There is the slight complication that the wife’s work provided PC which connects via WiFi is allegedly locked to the current SSID for security purposes. When she set it up the IT helpdesk helped her connect it and said it would be unable to connect to any other SSID.

But I suppose they could assist her with changing it temporarily if the situation arose.

(Edit: I just remembered your "allegedly". Just test that first! )

Do a test now. Change the announced SSID on a phone (set to provide a hotspot) to that on the router, with a different password to the wifi on the router. See if that works for your wife.

Or you could set the SSID and wifi password on the hotspot to identical to the router and manually select on the PC which to access at any given time. This was often done when using an old router connected to the main one by ethernet, to provide wider wifi coverage on the premises, with connected devices switching seamlessly to the stronger signal.

That would be better if it works, as normally the phone will not be set to tether so won't be broadcasting the SSID.

If should also work if they have managed to set up the PC to prevent you selecting which of the two devices is offering that SSID. Just test by turning off the router for a few minutes.

Edited by pluralist (Sun 05-Dec-21 23:33:38)

And after 2025? Will Openreach still be supplying SOGEA?

SOGEA falls out of scope of the WLR withdrawl.

Openreach will still be supplying SOGEA beyond 2025, probably well beyond 2025. Even where an exchange area hits the 75% trigger threshold of FTTP enabled properties, if that is the only service available to a particular property (or for that matter SOGFAST or SOTAP) then they will continue to provide it until an alternative is available at that address.

Thanks. I thought I'd seen something, but wasn't sure.

What backup arrangements have you made for power cuts, which IME is a more likely event?

Using a mobile phone as a wifi hotspot can work quite well so long as you have a good mobile phone signal.

Have you considered upgrading your Bt employee benefit instead ?

For an extra £5 a month you can get the hybrid connect 4g add on , and also the complete WiFi disc ( halo 3+ )- so if the fttp goes down you will switch to 4g - although this would require you to use the BT smart hub if your not already using it .

john83

There is a list published that says there are 135+ on Stop sell as at Oct 2021 an that is going up to 455 by August 2022 ( Means they are in the 12 months notice period for the additional ones) 4 have been removed from the original list. that was 459 long.

In reply to a post by kitcat:

There is a list published

Oh, I'm on the list. Still "no plans for FTTP so I'll just stand out in the rain then.

The list says "CE Fibre Cities - Glasgow", what does "CE" stand for?

I know I posted the list last night, 2 posts after the 1 you replied to. I'm unable to edit my original post.

Currently 134 FTTP priority exchange stop sells and 1 WLR.

There was 1 FTTP Priority exchange in June and 14 at the start of October. I hadn't been keeping up with all the dates.

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 06-Dec-21 17:37:59)

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

What backup arrangements have you made for power cuts, which IME is a more likely event?

Using a mobile phone as a wifi hotspot can work quite well so long as you have a good mobile phone signal.

I definitely don't have a contingency plan for a power cut. I don't suppose the wife's work is so critical, that an outage of a few hours of electricity would be a major problem.

I am probably overthinking the whole thing. Using the phone as a wifi hotspot would be a much better way of doing things, instead of wasting money on a second line that may never get used. And given that she has 150GB of data and used nowhere near this, then it's definitely the way to go.

The PC does seem to be locked to one SSID but no doubt a call to the IT Helpdesk would resolve this.

In reply to a post by troublegum:

The PC does seem to be locked to one SSID but no doubt a call to the IT Helpdesk would resolve this.

My Android mobile phone lets me call the hotspot anything I like. Same for password.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

Thanks. I thought I'd seen something, but wasn't sure.

This is a neat graphic cribbed from a comms provider fact sheet, that sums it up nicely.

Edited by Pheasant (Mon 06-Dec-21 23:53:04)

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

In reply to a post by kitcat:

There is a list published

Oh, I'm on the list. Still "no plans for FTTP so I'll just stand out in the rain then.

The list says "CE Fibre Cities - Glasgow", what does "CE" stand for?

Nope. Again taken a cribbed summary, from same CP fact sheet as my post above:

Stop Sell Policy and Product Scope
Stop sell applies at a premises level only where that premise has access to an available GEA-FTTP product. Where a premise has access to FTTP there will be no new supply of other products, CP Transfers, working line takeovers, addition of broadband to voice lines, bandwidth modifications, start of stopped lines or migrations to non-Ultrafast products.
> If a premise has GEA-FTTP available to order, then only GEA-FTTP is available to that premise and instantly become within the scope of stop sell
> If a premise does not have GEA-FTTP available, SOGFAST, SOGEA, GEA-FTTC, SOTAP (where no fibre is available), MPF & WLR (only until September 2023) will be available
The same Stop Sell principles will apply for the fibre exchanges as the Salisbury trial exchange (note: the stop sell principle matrix has changed as a result) see below.
Considerations will also be given to investment policies in the copper network which may include VDSL Cabinet capacity and repairs of the copper network.

In reply to a post by kitcat:

john83

There is a list published that says there are 135+ on Stop sell as at Oct 2021 an that is going up to 455 by August 2022 ( Means they are in the 12 months notice period for the additional ones) 4 have been removed from the original list. that was 459 long.

As for as I could see, the link provided doesn't show those 459 exchanges. How do I get to see that listing please?

Here’s the latest excel spreadsheet. Last update was October.

https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/content/dam/cpp...

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

Oh, I'm on the list. Still "no plans for FTTP so I'll just stand out in the rain then.

Nope. Again taken a cribbed summary, from same CP fact sheet as my post above:

No but yes but. I think I understand I won't lose my POTS next year. My point was that just because your exchange is on the 'stop sell' list, that doesn't mean FTTP is coming to you soon. My exchange is 99% FTTP. I don't expect to have it before stop sell applies here.

That was my initial thoughts whenever I first heard of stop sell: that once an exchange was 'done' you'd be transferred to FTTP and the POTS disabled. But that's not going to happen for a few more years. If ever.

But I really wanted to know what "CE" stands for. All the fibre first / fibre cities exchanges appear to be CE. Something Exchange, Central Exchange? Something to identify a 'head end' exchange?

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

But I really wanted to know what "CE" stands for. All the fibre first / fibre cities exchanges appear to be CE. Something Exchange, Central Exchange? Something to identify a 'head end' exchange?

The only such references listed are “CE Fibre Cities - xxx” and “NI Fibre Cities - yyy” so I’d expect it’s some sort of geographic tranche designation.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

The only such references listed are “CE Fibre Cities - xxx” and “NI Fibre Cities - yyy” so I’d expect it’s some sort of geographic tranche designation.

A big area then! All of Great Britain's Fibre Cities are listed as CE from the south coast of England into Scotland.

And whereas Edinburgh Kirklist is "CE Fibre Cities - Edinburgh", Abbeyhill and Corstorphine exchanges are just City of Edinburgh.

We may never know...

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

The only such references listed are “CE Fibre Cities - xxx” and “NI Fibre Cities - yyy” so I’d expect it’s some sort of geographic tranche designation.

A big area then! All of Great Britain's Fibre Cities are listed as CE from the south coast of England into Scotland.

And whereas Edinburgh Kirklist is "CE Fibre Cities - Edinburgh", Abbeyhill and Corstorphine exchanges are just City of Edinburgh.

We may never know...

Possibly historic when they first announced this Fibre Cities programme (I believe it was a promise they made to the DCMS & Opfocm in 2018 to publish a list).

Its kind of irrelevant now anyway as those exchange areas have all been subsumed into their larger national FTTP build-out programme, much like Fibre First Villages & Market Towns or whatever it was called.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Here’s the latest excel spreadsheet. Last update was October.

https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/content/dam/cpp...

Thank you

How about BT's own halo 4g backup thingy? Auto fallback if the fttp goes down, and it's only a tenner more a month (perhaps employee discount on that too?). Of course if BT have wider problems both might go down I guess.

In extremis you can always use a mobile - and if I remember right BT mobile go unlimited usage while your main line gets fixed. For this route you could perhaps keep a usb battery bank handy in case local power goes down - that's one route where your main connection might fail but the mobile one could stay up.

Edited by arfster (Wed 08-Dec-21 02:16:13)