maximum distance between telephone posts uk, pre 2016

Due to a neighbour dispute I need to confirm when the change of the recommended maximum distance between telephone poles [now 65m] came into force, please?
This is in the UK, the dispute dates from 2020 but Openreach condemned the pole that we wanted moved in 2016.Our neighbour maintained the 60 metres was not allowed so it was our fault that Openreach did not repair their line - not the fact that Openreach would not communicate with us until 2022 when the MP was asked to intervene!
I just want to get my facts right so that we can build bridges again, we lived happily next door for 30 years, it is sad.
Thank you

I've tried reading your post several times and struggling to understand the events that lead to the dispute. You may find it hard to get an exact time when the 67m recommend limit was implemented although from what I can remember it was larger than that beforehand (when copper was the only cable used on poles) but was reduced due to fibre cable limits.

Others may be able to advise better than me.

In reply to a post by raupset:

I just want to get my facts right so that we can build bridges again, we lived happily next door for 30 years, it is sad.

Its rather esoteric and probably not conductive to 'building bridges" if you're going to get hung up on this level of absolute minutiae

Bury the hatchet, forget about the minutiae and just get on with it, would be my advice.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Its rather esoteric and probably not conductive to 'building bridges" if you're going to get hung up on this level of absolute minutiae

Bury the hatchet, forget about the minutiae and just get on with it, would be my advice.

You make a very valid point.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Its rather esoteric and probably not conductive to 'building bridges" if you're going to get hung up on this level of absolute minutiae

Bury the hatchet, forget about the minutiae and just get on with it, would be my advice.

You make a very valid point.

+1

You might get a useful answer on community.bt.com Maybe best not to mention why you want to know! The type of cable may well be a factor.

What the OP hasn't told us is what resulted from the local MP getting involved with Openreach.

For instance, has the pole now been moved? Why did the OP want it moved anyway? To widen their drive perhaps? What was going on between 2016 and 2020, given the pole was apparently condemned in 2016?

What has the OP got to do with a condemned pole and a faulty line not being fixed anyway for six years?

None of the opening post adds up.

It’s all conjecture Bob, but…..
by ‘condemned’ I reckon he means the pole was marked D … there is no hard timescale for these poles to be replaced after being marked unsafe to climb.
If access is required, it must be by hoist or a scaffold.

So I presume one of the parties had the pole, or access to it, through their land, and declined said access. The other parties repair took a very long time to action due to some of this. Maybe too, when a pole got relocated (to appease someone’s bloody mindedness) or a suggested move, this was declined as a solution due to rulings about maximum span lengths.

With no further input from the OP, it just seems like somebody is looking for more info to extend/resolve a long standing dispute. Hence my ‘+1’ to Micheal Chafe’s and Dect’s posts. Life is too short, and could be made sweeter, if such issues were resolved long before they arise.

The maximum span allowed between poles is now up to 85 metres, providing it doesn't cross a carriageway.
This is seemingly due to fibre being less weight than copper.

No idea if this applies to fibre only poles or not though.

The limit was previously 68m.

Edited by j0hn83 (Sun 27-Mar-22 10:42:34)

Thankyou for your interest. I thought this would be an easy answer.
the reason i am trying to find the answer is to prove to our neighbour that his information was not correct so the delay was not our fault but Openreach and then he can bury the hatchet and we can be happy neighbours again.
the story; we have a pole in our garden only serving our neighbour (an eminent ex B Rail engineer)This pole was condemned as rotten repeatedly by Openreach engineers over approx 15 years.
originally it was in a veg garden , then we self built a new house and converted the old greenhouse base into a pond [my disabled husband,s hobby ] this is alongside the pole which we assumed would be moved 20 yards.. yet again we asked for the pole to be moved when the engineer appeared to check the rotten pole again! Heard nothing.
during a storm the phone line broke and the engineers would not re-attach it to the rotten pole

continued ; We were informed by our neighbour that a) the distance between the poles would be too great and b) the pole had proscriptive rights [having been in place for a very long time] and we were not allowed to move it.
we againasked the engineer how we could get it moved especially by now we had paved the area for my husband,s safety - Heard nothing.

Eventually the neighbour got the MP involved and Kellys came and within 2 weeks moved the post!
now unfortunately Openreach have on their records that we refused to allow them access which is why the neighbour is so cross ,but our request apparently proved to be valid..
He now says the wire is over his barbecue and it might melt. What temperature would melt a cable?

In reply to a post by raupset:

.... this is alongside the pole which we assumed would be moved 20 yards.. yet again we asked for the pole to be moved when the engineer appeared to check the rotten pole again!

A physical relocation or change to an existing Openreach asset would need to be formally requested and may take time to be approved and then actioned. It also may result in a charge to whomever is requesting this.

https://www.openreach.com/building-developers-and-pr...

Was this ever formally requested in writing to Openreach?

That would have to be some barbecue to generate anything like enough heat at the height of the wire above!

In reply to a post by raupset:

Eventually the neighbour got the MP involved and Kellys came and within 2 weeks moved the post!
now unfortunately Openreach have on their records that we refused to allow them access which is why the neighbour is so cross ,but our request apparently proved to be valid..
He now says the wire is over his barbecue and it might melt. What temperature would melt a cable?

Going over old ground about the events that lead to the dispute isn't going to help you or your neighbour, if anything I think its likely to make it worse. If Openreach have it on record that you refused to allow access and thats what your neighbour is so cross about telling them about the maximum span for a pole isn't not going to solve anything. To be honest if it was me I think I would hold my hands up and say to my neighbour I didn't handle the pole issue correctly and regret what happened and hope we can put the issue behind us.

In reply to a post by raupset:

He now says the wire is over his barbecue and it might melt. What temperature would melt a cable?

If the cable terminates on the fascia board of a two storey building, I doubt a barbecue would give off enough heat to damage the cable, but if your neighbour is concerned it maybe he could have the cable terminated at a different point on his building at his expense. Or if he gets an overhead fibre connection in the future maybe be that could terminate at a different point.

Or just move his BBQ a bit

Hi,

https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Fibre-broadband/FTTP-... talks about the maximum length of an overhead dropwire.

"on ‎10-02-2021 11h09

1,819 Views
Message 26 of 31
Re: FTTP Install underground v overhead
1.1 Span Length Limits

For all new / replaced Dropwires, the maximum dropwire span lengths must not be exceeded when the job is completed.

These are as follows:

68 metres when using an *Eyebolt 1A, Eyebolt 2A or Bracket 22/44/51.
40 metres when using a Bracket 32.
*40 metres when an Eyebolt 1A is fitted to a rendered / harled wall and the Dropwire does not cross any Road / Carriageway. (See Section 4.9.1 for full details.)
Cable Drop Wiring No.15 can be used for spans up to 68 Metres including road crossings.


1.1 Span Length Limits

For all new / replaced Dropwires, the maximum dropwire span lengths must not be exceeded when the job is completed.

These are as follows:

68 metres when using an *Eyebolt 1A, Eyebolt 2A or Bracket 22/44/51.
40 metres when using a Bracket 32.
*40 metres when an Eyebolt 1A is fitted to a rendered / harled wall and the Dropwire does not cross any Road / Carriageway. (See Section 4.9.1 for full details.)
Cable Drop Wiring No.15 can be used for spans up to 68 Metres including road crossings.


1.1.1 Exceptions to the 68m span limit



The only exception to the 68m limit is for Fibre feed cables to a CBT.

In situations where cable installation in existing U/G duct is not economically viable, the alternative is to span a new overhead fibre cable between existing DP Poles, therefore bypassing the damaged U/G section.

However, sometimes the spacing between existing poles may be found longer than 68 metres. Where the above scenarios are encountered and where use of an overhead alternative is required, but not possible as the distance between poles are greater than 68m, the following exceptional span length options may be utilised.

1.1 Span Length Limits

For all new / replaced Dropwires, the maximum dropwire span lengths must not be exceeded when the job is completed.

These are as follows:

68 metres when using an *Eyebolt 1A, Eyebolt 2A or Bracket 22/44/51.
40 metres when using a Bracket 32.
*40 metres when an Eyebolt 1A is fitted to a rendered / harled wall and the Dropwire does not cross any Road / Carriageway. (See Section 4.9.1 for full details.)
Cable Drop Wiring No.15 can be used for spans up to 68 Metres including road crossings.


1.1.1 Exceptions to the 68m span limit



The only exception to the 68m limit is for Fibre feed cables to a CBT.

In situations where cable installation in existing U/G duct is not economically viable, the alternative is to span a new overhead fibre cable between existing DP Poles, therefore bypassing the damaged U/G section.

However, sometimes the spacing between existing poles may be found longer than 68 metres. Where the above scenarios are encountered and where use of an overhead alternative is required, but not possible as the distance between poles are greater than 68m, the following exceptional span length options may be utilised.

This policy applies to Fibre cables feeding CBTs only.

It excludes the following,

Fibre cables beyond the CBT i.e L2C house-end feeds
Creation of new copper span situations greater than 68metres
"

which seems to have come from the Openreach supplier information.

Since most overhead drop wire is made of copper coated steel, then it would need to be a big BBQ to melt it.

It used to be that if a pole was condemmed as not allowed to climb (a D pole) then a no-climb pole would be put in.

I hope that this helps.

Cheers,
Tony